Big Fucking Surprise (Tobacco, Rights & Health Care, oh my!)
- Thread starter Morcheeba
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FACTS AND FIGURES
Ok, let's have a look at some figures (UK), from http://www.the-tma.org.uk/uk-cigarette-consumption.aspx.
I'll take 2007 as an example.
Cigarettes consumed in the UK (not including roll-ups): 64.5 billion.
Tax on each pack of 20 in 2007?: £4.07
Tax on each cigarette in 2007? : 20.35p (or £0.235)
Tax income from cigarettes in 2007? £11,045,000,000 (£11.045 billion)
Now for how much cigarette-related illnesses cost the NHS (government run) in the UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...moking-costs-nhs-pound5bn-a-year-1700509.html
This is rather more difficult to pinpoint a figure, as not all treatments come with a registered acceptable mean monetary value. It was accepted in recent times that smoking costs the NHS (National Health Service, if you were wondering) £1billion a year. This figure has been found to be closer to £5 billion now.
SO
Smoke-related illnesses cost the government in my country £5 billion a year, compared to the £11.045 billion the government receives from tax on the very thing causing the cost. The government, with the cost of treating smokers negated by the tax money, make over £6 billion a year from cigarettes. Where does this money go? That's a lot of money, profit, AFTER treating people for the problems from cigarettes.
And, ladies and gentlemen, THAT is why it is not only a ludicrous idea to deny healthcare to the people who put so much money INTO the healthcare system, but also why the government will make an annual loss of over £6billion should they ban cigarettes (in addition to all other profits and losses). Don't see that happening.
Ok, let's have a look at some figures (UK), from http://www.the-tma.org.uk/uk-cigarette-consumption.aspx.
I'll take 2007 as an example.
Cigarettes consumed in the UK (not including roll-ups): 64.5 billion.
Tax on each pack of 20 in 2007?: £4.07
Tax on each cigarette in 2007? : 20.35p (or £0.235)
Tax income from cigarettes in 2007? £11,045,000,000 (£11.045 billion)
Now for how much cigarette-related illnesses cost the NHS (government run) in the UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...moking-costs-nhs-pound5bn-a-year-1700509.html
This is rather more difficult to pinpoint a figure, as not all treatments come with a registered acceptable mean monetary value. It was accepted in recent times that smoking costs the NHS (National Health Service, if you were wondering) £1billion a year. This figure has been found to be closer to £5 billion now.
SO
Smoke-related illnesses cost the government in my country £5 billion a year, compared to the £11.045 billion the government receives from tax on the very thing causing the cost. The government, with the cost of treating smokers negated by the tax money, make over £6 billion a year from cigarettes. Where does this money go? That's a lot of money, profit, AFTER treating people for the problems from cigarettes.
And, ladies and gentlemen, THAT is why it is not only a ludicrous idea to deny healthcare to the people who put so much money INTO the healthcare system, but also why the government will make an annual loss of over £6billion should they ban cigarettes (in addition to all other profits and losses). Don't see that happening.
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4.07 pounds per pack is 6.50 per pack America if my math is correct. (it should be illegal to tax at anywhere near that rate, sin taxes only cause more problems)
Now using your website i have to wonder how much money is used fighting tobacco smuggling seeing as according to the first website you posted it is estimated that 27% of cigarettes are smuggled in to get around the duty and 68% of the handrolled stuff is smuggled in. Now anytime anything is getting smuggled you have to deal with the organized crime, corruption, non competitive business practices (like killing your competition), and turf wars. Not to mention the group that is most effected by the sin tax is the lower class who are both unable to travel to buy them on their own (so they pay the taxes) or more likely to get involved in the actual smuggling in which case they get arrested.
You just created another problem... congrats.
That is why to me the only real solution to this problem is personal responsibility.. not force through taxation. Let a person smoke cigarettes til they quite literally cough up blood but at the same time... when they do make them fix it. The cigarette companies do not put the damn things in your mouth... at the end of the day anything you do is your fault.
Lets pretend that pretty much everything is legal and available for a sec.
Do i smoke? nope cause i think its a discusting habit and unhealthy. Still use the hookah sometimes though...
Do i drink? I havent actually had a drink for almost a year because for a little while i thought i had a problem and i decided that i cant control myself to keep it social.
Other drugs? Not anymore
Do i exercise? ... ill be honest... not really but im not horrendous either.
Do i play safely? everytime
How do i drive? like a grandma ... most of the time.
Now when i can make these choices for myself because i understand and accept the consequences and i made the choices that they are a bad idea, why am i responsible for the bad ideas of others.
Now using your website i have to wonder how much money is used fighting tobacco smuggling seeing as according to the first website you posted it is estimated that 27% of cigarettes are smuggled in to get around the duty and 68% of the handrolled stuff is smuggled in. Now anytime anything is getting smuggled you have to deal with the organized crime, corruption, non competitive business practices (like killing your competition), and turf wars. Not to mention the group that is most effected by the sin tax is the lower class who are both unable to travel to buy them on their own (so they pay the taxes) or more likely to get involved in the actual smuggling in which case they get arrested.
You just created another problem... congrats.
That is why to me the only real solution to this problem is personal responsibility.. not force through taxation. Let a person smoke cigarettes til they quite literally cough up blood but at the same time... when they do make them fix it. The cigarette companies do not put the damn things in your mouth... at the end of the day anything you do is your fault.
Lets pretend that pretty much everything is legal and available for a sec.
Do i smoke? nope cause i think its a discusting habit and unhealthy. Still use the hookah sometimes though...
Do i drink? I havent actually had a drink for almost a year because for a little while i thought i had a problem and i decided that i cant control myself to keep it social.
Other drugs? Not anymore
Do i exercise? ... ill be honest... not really but im not horrendous either.
Do i play safely? everytime
How do i drive? like a grandma ... most of the time.
Now when i can make these choices for myself because i understand and accept the consequences and i made the choices that they are a bad idea, why am i responsible for the bad ideas of others.
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