The suicide letter of Bill Zeller. The affects of sexual abuse. (Maybe NSFW)

[Uzor]

Where to start... calling you stupid doesn't make me immature if your actions lead me to believe you are stupid...there, I judged you on your actions, just as you requested.

But me calling you stupid would be immature... why? Are you saying that only I am able to immature by calling someone stupid, while you have an immature immunity? Because that's what it sounds like from your phrase. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

I'm merely trying to work out why you have the opinion you do, when the whole basis of my argument is that you cannot judge, even though you seem to think you can, because you don't know what he was going through.

Because that is where our opinions differ. It is my opinion that you can form your own opinion about a person without being said person. You don't have to know everything about a person to form an opinion about them. Humans are very shallow; I'm smart enough to realize that I, too, am a human, and is thus shallow. We always form opininions about people from what information we have available to us. You, too, have an opinion about him - it just happens to be different than mine. Your opinion is that you can't judge him based on him committing suicide, because you can't know what he's going through. You feel I should be more compassionate about his situation. I feel that you can judge him based on his action. My opinion is that it is horrible what he had to endure in life, but I also feel that whatever he went trough is no reason to end your own life and make those around him suffer. I feel it is a very selfish and weak decision. It all boild down to our views on; You seem to believe suicide is justified in certain situations - whereas I feel it is always wrong and selfish. It isn't because I lack compassion, it's because my compassion lies with the living. I feel no need to feel compassionate for those that are dead, I think it is better to feel compassion for those alive. If people die in a plane crash, I don't feel sorry for those that died, I feel sorry for those left behind. I feel compassion for what he went through, not for his death - his death was uneccesary, as well as a choice he himself actively made. As such, I don't feel it neccesary to be compassionate for his death, only for those he left behind. As such, his choice was a selfish one, as his action result in uneccesary suffering for others. It is a crime towards them - not himself.

We're not going to agree, that is clear, but I feel the need to point out this last part.

There is a very big difference between having an opinion (which everybody does) and judging someone like this guy. To judge and to think are, again, different. I don't understand why you continue to call him a coward even when you comprehend my point that you don't know what he went through.

Coward = someone who faces difficulty without courage.

Courage = someone who faces difficulty with fear.

Do you think you would be fearful, as he was, if you had endured what he had? If you do, then you would be a coward in that situation too. You can say what he did was wrong, I won't argue that, because that part is an opinion. To call him a coward is unnecessary and, still, not true. "The coward's way out" is a cliche, with very little in the way of substance to back it up.

It's a game of "what if's", and that game can never be won or accurately foretold, as I'd likely have different views and opinions then than I do now. It is simply too many variables to take in to consideration to give an accurate answer. However, no, I don't think I would be fearful. I can't say for sure as I've never experienced gettign raped when I was 4. Based on my current views, opinions, feelings and morals, though, I'm sure it would affect me for the rest of my life, but I don't think I would be fearful. I would certainly be depressed and shocked, but I respect and trust my parents enough to share what happened with them so that they could help me through it. But I do not think I would be fearful, no. But again, I can't say for sure.

Additionally, I hardly think it lacks substance. He's courageous as long as he endures it, but the moment he stops believing in himself and lose hope - eventually leading to suicide - he becomes a coward. He then faces, as you state it, difficulty without courage. It is why he commits suicide; because he lacks the courage to go on. Someone who goes through something like that and choose to fight; that choose to live on and better their life, they deserve all the respect in the world for their courage. Someone that chooses to end their life though, does not. They deserve respect for the time they chose to live, but not for the act itself - because the act itself (that is, suicide) is a sign of weakness; not strength. It is a sign they no longer has the courage to live on. Therefor, it is the coward's way out.

 

[Morcheeba]

People do not only commit suicide because it is the easiest way out, many feel it is their ONLY way out. This after several years of mind fuck they allow themselves at the hands of psychologists only to learn that no matter how much talking they do the pain, shame and filth will never truly go away. Coping is something people have to learn. Not everyone has great coping skills. Naturally we all differ in our ability to cope and with WHAT we're able to cope with.

I'm quite surprised as a man he lived through it as long as he did and didn't succumb to his darkness as a teenager.

Also, to be quite honest, many many many many many people who live through an experience closely mirrored to his (not just some random trauma) often times turn to drugs and get stuck right there, in a new pit of hell. He said he didn't like the way alcohol made him feel. Sounds as though he wasn't completely irrational.

Good thing it wasn't heroin, or meth. Most people can't just take a step back and say they don't like how it makes them feel. They get stuck and never get to deal with the underlining problem, each time reliving it they sink deeper and deeper into their drug induced livingdeaths.

As I said, I'm surprised he survived it as long as he did. And being as accomplished as he was, well to me, that shows me just how bloody strong he truly was. It was a waste of a valuable life. It's not his fault. And lacking support, his parents most importantly, whether it was his father as the rapist, or his parents were so fucking self centered and daft to not notice the change that most certainly did occur with him as a child, how COULD he ever learn how to appropriately cope? That comes from a sound foundation, and it doesn't sound like he had anywhere to turn.

I mean, if you can't trust or turn to family, who can you turn to? A complete stranger? And by the time you're 23-24 and a grad, doing 'well' you should have your shit together and not need to dump such a huge burden on your potential love interests.

But who am I to say right? I highly doubt there really is anyone here who can honestly say they suffered a very similar life experience. From his lack of love at home to the physical and mental torment of a brutal ongoing rape right down to self loathing and lack of trust in anyone INCLUDING himself.

I only have sympathy for his situation and heartache that he felt he needed to die in order to find peace within himself. It's a sad case. I would never look to him as a coward.

Fucked if I know how I would ever cope with such a terrible tormenting trauma. But of course I don't pretend to be something I'm not, I also wouldn't ever say I could overcome or deal with such a thing. I don't know because I haven't experienced and if I ever did, who knows...

 

[Rollipollie]

Wow... this man was incredibly tortured. I can't relate to him nor do I know anyone that has gone through this, but I hope he has found peace. With that being said I'm not a psychologist but I think its a little different when you are raped as a child and when you're raped as a young adult/adult. Children can't process things the same way adults can when they go through the same thing.

It also seemed like the perpetrator was someone he truly trusted, and when you take away something as big as trust from a 4 year old, they'll never have it again or believe in it. I don't blame him for not trusting doctors/shrinks/whoever he saw. I can't even imagine what was going through his head every single day of his life. I don't think suffering is something that is weighable or measurable because at the end of the day, when the cows come home... its still suffering.

I also think some of you guys lack empathy and are just plain disrespectful. I don't think he was weak at all; his parents kicked him out at 19 and he still made it to grad school at Princeton DESPITE of where he has been/what he has been through, I think that is commendable. RIP Bill, find peace.

 

[Tok]

I also think some of you guys lack empathy and are just plain disrespectful.

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