Do People Believe Things Into Existance?

Even that piece need to have been created from something. Hence, why there's a flaw in the rule that something can not be created out of nothing.

True. Quite interesting, though, to know that at least *one* thing has been created out of *nothing.*
 
Yes, yes, we can all read your sig. Do you have any proof of your claims?

i really dont need proof

if you've ever been happy or been in a state of joy or ever been content with everything u can liken that to a heavenly state of mind

on the flip side if ur miserable or suicidal etc u can liken that to a hellish state of mind...easy

god and the devil are suppose to be perfect good and perfect evil right? ok...so a person who is a generally good person exibits godlike characteristics...right? and vice-versa

its really not that hard of a concept to grasp...that is...if u let go of the narrow-minded teachings of the bible =/
 
but anyone who thinks that the world was just blinked into existence by a man no one has ever EVER seen is just a fool

Because we are the narrow minded ones?

The same can be said for you, someone who looks down on the teachings of the bible, get the religion's beliefs wrong, and calling someone a fool for believeing it.

I don't think so, scooter.
 
Our knowledge of the universe is always expanding, it has been pretty much since the basic principles of science were first accepted and shared among humanity. I'm sure that while we'll never have all the answers, we'll get a lot more insight into how things happened as time goes on.

However, while science is the best way of explaining how, it cannot answer why. Most especially, why out of all the species on our planet does Humanity seem to be the only one interested in asking these questions? Why have humans developed the desire, the need to know more about our world than just "what am I going to eat today"?
It actually coems quite naturally. Every species is, by nature, very curious. Curiosity is both a good thing, and a bad thing. All animals, especially as kids, want to explore anything and see what it does. That is how they learn. For example, they eat something, it tastes bad. Now they know not to eat it. They pick up a rock, and throw at something. That something is scared. They know learn something that benefits the species as a whole. That is how, for one, we developed tools.

Humans weren't much more intelligent then monkies originally. We were very curious, and daring. The reason we have coem so far, is because we are curious and work in groups. That gave us the upperhand over other animals. A long time ago, we mainly ate greens. However, our curiosity made us stalk other animals, and allow us to see what they ate. We also stalked other animals, and see where they hid their food, and stole it. Lions, tigers etc. tend to do this. So stealing their food gave us an additional food resource, meat, which gave our brain more proteins etc. that it need. That allowed or brain to grow. Over the ages, we found things in the nature that could help us. By slowly developing new tools, and teach the next generation how to get food, and how to make those tools, it allowed our brain to grow even more, and eventually, we could hunt our own food, and also hunt other predators and dangers away fom the rest of the group, further increasing our chance of survival. There were several other human-like creatures that were developed, but due to our brutal nature and strong sense of territory, we killed them. Humans keep what's ours, and when we grow too large to live on the territory we own, we go hunt more. You either win, or you lose. If you lose, you suddenly lost a lot of members of the tribe, and you're now small enough to live on the territory you own. If you win, you made your territory larger, thus giving you an edge over others. Eventually, we took over.

Also, I might sound like an asshole, or like I speak bad of women when I say this (but I'm really not, trust me), men are what drives the species forward. Women stay at pretty much the same mental level, with only a few changes, when women have a much wider mental health. That's why there's more male criminals then female criminals, while there's also more male geniouses, then female geniouses. The criminals tend to get pushed out of the group and die an earlier death, while the geniouses have a larger chance of survival, and will also most likely develop a new tool, or other means to help the group out.

The bible describes mankind as being created "In God's image". Most literal interpreters of the bible (Christian or not) interpret that as meaning the Bible says God is some dude in the sky that looks like us. Critics of the bible like to drive that point home repeatedly. To me, however, being made in God's image doesn't mean the physical, but rather the metaphysical. Humans were given the ability to reason, and that is what makes them like God. This was God's true gift to us, the "spark of life" given to Adam in bible mythos. God wants us to question our world, to look critically at the evidence before us and come to our own conclusions. If he didn't then we'd still be in the jungles poking sticks into anthills for dinner.
The way I see it, there's really no reason to live by 100% by the rules of the bible. that is what's stupid. A friend of mine said that God created man to worship him, and those that don't, are banished to hell for being ungreatfull. However, if God is really that insecure of himself, that he needs to create us just so he can feel better about himself, is that really a god you want to worship? Additionally, his preaches of "Thou shalt not believe in any god but me", makes me wonder if there are other gods that he's jelous of. If there are no other gods, he wouldn't have anything to worry about, now would he?

There's also the chance that he want to see who is stupid enough to follow everything he says. Life is, after all, like a giant test. God might be testing us, and if we follow our own will, we'll get his respect. After all, a lot of people use people, and respect people that stand up to them and refuse to take their shit. If God made us in his own image, he have the very same flaws humans do, and should thus be more respecting. Personally, I don't believe in God, nor do I believe he'll banish anyone who don't to hell. That would be very hypocritical of him.
 
wtf, lol, how did my post appear in the middle of the thread?
 
so believing in an invisible man whos never shown his face or better yet does nothing when you need him the most doesnt seem foolish to you?

im sorry if i seem a little cynical but with all the crime, corruption, greed, selfishness, poverty, war, and dishonesty that is rampat in this world i cant believe that a just god could sit on his ass and just allow it to happen without intervening at least once

You seem to miss my point. You were calling ALL christians narrowminded for believing in the bible and you were calling everyone that did a fool. (Hint: Thats being narrowminded. Whats up, hypocrisy.)

Ruffy nailed it otherwise, even thought i don't believe in any sort of god anymore i'm not about to say, "LOL bible beaters!"
 
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You seem to miss my point. You were calling ALL christians narrowminded for believing in the bible and you were calling everyone that did a fool. (Hint: Thats being narrowminded. Whats up, hypocrisy.)

Ruffy nailed it otherwise, even thought i don't believe in any sort of god anymore i'm not about to say, "LOL bible beaters!"

This was supposed to go down here. QCDN worm hole.
 
Ruffyreborn said:
And a last note, there really is no more evidence that we were created through evolution instead of Gods creation. The only real difference is that many people say we have evolved and become what we are. Whether you believe in God, or believe in natures work, both beliefs are basically out of a book or from someone telling you where were from

Um...no. The difference is that while there is evidence of evolution, the only proof that God crossed his arms, nodded, and blinked humanity into existence is what's written in the bible. That's it.

True, you can read about both in a book, but which sounds more trustworthy, the one written by scientists that research, observe, and experiment to make conclusions, or the book written 2000 years ago by people that thought the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe?
 
Um...no. The difference is that while there is evidence of evolution, the only proof that God crossed his arms, nodded, and blinked humanity into existence is what's written in the bible. That's it.

True, you can read about both in a book, but which sounds more trustworthy, the one written by scientists that research, observe, and experiment to make conclusions, or the book written 2000 years ago by people that thought the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe?

Both beliefs are you putting your faith into something. Neither has anymore credit than the other. But, we'll leave it to you whether you would believe a human, or you would believe someone all powerful.

How do scientists know what they know? They know what they know by studying the universe around them with methods they created, so what can you expect?

Telling anyone else that theyre wrong on the matter is the worst thing you can do. Youll have your non-religious people, and your religious. Think on a large scale standpoint, I speak from what I believe, which is why I nearly always say "I believe this" and "I believe that." Im not telling anyone theyre wrong, but I am telling them what I believe. I get badgered far more by non-religious people than vice versa, so I really thing theyre the ones trying to force beliefs onto me.
 
I think you misunderstood my reference of the bible, I didn't mean to use it as an example of the end-all-be-all word of God. I only use the bible because it's the holy book I'm familiar with. All holy books have one thing in common- they infer something special, something divine if you will, about Humans.

And I tend to agree. You quote evolution and science, Humans competing with other species to become bigger and better. But tell me, from a purely scientific, evolutionary standpoint: why did humanity create myth, or art? Humans are the only species that have ever shown any interest in art, in mirroring the world around them through paintings and stories. Sure if you give a chimpanzee a paintbrush they'll create some abstract slop that some people call "art", but I've never seen a chimp make the paint, and use it to draw a picture of themselves.

Don't get me wrong: I believe in the scientific principles of evolution. I think that religious texts should be read as guidelines for cultural morality; and morality is, as we all know, subjective to the culture in existance currently. God gave me a brain, and I'm going to use it, not let it be doped into submission by books that some guys wrote almost 2 thousand years ago. But there are just some things that even logic and science can't explain. There's no device that can measure joy, or suffering, or anger, or serenity. Faith fills in the gaps that science is unable to; but it should never be used as a substitute for reason.
 
Both beliefs are you putting your faith into something. Neither has anymore credit than the other. But, we'll leave it to you whether you would believe a human, or you would believe someone all powerful.

How do scientists know what they know? They know what they know by studying the universe around them with methods they created, so what can you expect?

Telling anyone else that theyre wrong on the matter is the worst thing you can do. Youll have your non-religious people, and your religious. Think on a large scale standpoint, I speak from what I believe, which is why I nearly always say "I believe this" and "I believe that." Im not telling anyone theyre wrong, but I am telling them what I believe. I get badgered far more by non-religious people than vice versa, so I really thing theyre the ones trying to force beliefs onto me.

I'm not trying to force anything on anyone, merely stating that religious beliefs can't be considered on the same level as scientific facts. no matter what you say, evolution has some actual evidence behind it, all religion can say to support its claims is, "Trust me on this."

And that's what it comes down to. Say what you want about how scientists gather information, but I'll take the word of a human I can debate with any day over a supposed "all powerful" that may or may not exist.

The fact is, religion does not have the same credit as science in any way, shape, or form. The strongest argument I've ever heard made for it is that it can't be disproved, therefore it must be true. Sorry, but I need more than logical fallacies to be persuaded.
 
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lol short of god showing up this arguement will never be resolved, because no matter how much proof is got, christians and other religions can just say "Yeah well god did that" to the current belief on how the world and universe started.

On a sidenote the reason he doesn't intervene is so that we have free will. So if he wants us to keep free will if he DID intervene would you know it? Maybe god has intervened in many things, we just never noticed.
 
God gives people choices, so its up to the people to clean up their own act. He isnt going to nurse everyone like a baby, he knows we can be independant. You cannot place blame on someone that really has no part in the corruption of man, when its man themselves that are the cause.

The teachings of the Bible seriously are not narrow minded. You dont have this 'set path' you must follow. All the Bible does is give you detail, its up to you as a person to figure out what the Bible teaches, but it must be understood that people have to learn that they can be wrong, and can easily get the wrong idea from the Bible. When this happens, just try to reread what was misinterpereted, and figure out what it really means.

And a last note, there really is no more evidence that we were created through evolution instead of Gods creation. The only real difference is that many people say we have evolved and become what we are. Whether you believe in God, or believe in natures work, both beliefs are basically out of a book or from someone telling you where were from

Im not badgering you about your thoughts on this, just giving you my standpoint on how we came to be, much like yourself.

I really don't know how someone can believe this. You create something, you're responsible for it. You can't just make people and say "Oh they're so corrupted, I'll let them sort themselves out."

I'm with tok on this. I don't understand how such logical people can ever believe in such an invisible man. I think this quote says it best:

Some Dude said:
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of 10 special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time. But he loves you.
 
Our knowledge of the universe is always expanding, it has been pretty much since the basic principles of science were first accepted and shared among humanity. I'm sure that while we'll never have all the answers, we'll get a lot more insight into how things happened as time goes on.

However, while science is the best way of explaining how, it cannot answer why. Most especially, why out of all the species on our planet does Humanity seem to be the only one interested in asking these questions? Why have humans developed the desire, the need to know more about our world than just "what am I going to eat today"?

The bible describes mankind as being created "In God's image". Most literal interpreters of the bible (Christian or not) interpret that as meaning the Bible says God is some dude in the sky that looks like us. Critics of the bible like to drive that point home repeatedly. To me, however, being made in God's image doesn't mean the physical, but rather the metaphysical. Humans were given the ability to reason, and that is what makes them like God. This was God's true gift to us, the "spark of life" given to Adam in bible mythos. God wants us to question our world, to look critically at the evidence before us and come to our own conclusions. If he didn't then we'd still be in the jungles poking sticks into anthills for dinner.
 
First: Whats going on with this thread? Posts are bouncing all over the place, one minute Ruffy's post about corruption was at the begining, now its at the end, with a post by Tymon or Tyrath a few posts before Ruffy quoting the post Ruffy made in the begining but is now AFTER Tyrath's post o.o

Second: I agree with Rinoah, about God intervining in ways we don't notice. Ever thought about people like Mother Theresa? SHe did great things for others, wouldn't you believe that God helped others through her? God didn't direcetly come down himself and go "I'm helping you children!"
 
True, you can read about both in a book, but which sounds more trustworthy, the one written by scientists that research, observe, and experiment to make conclusions, or the book written 2000 years ago by people that thought the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe?

So because some random scientist that doesn't believe the holocaust ever happened, that means it didn't happen? One person, a scientists will swear up and down that the holocaust didn't happen. Right next to him you can have a survivor of the hoocaust. Who will you believe?

Also the earth being flat and was the center can't really be argued either. They didn't anywhere near the amount of technology we have now. They didn't know anything about relativity so from a strictly observational stand point, a person could believe that the earth was the center.
 
Because we are the narrow minded ones?

The same can be said for you, someone who looks down on the teachings of the bible, get the religion's beliefs wrong, and calling someone a fool for believeing it.

I don't think so, scooter.

so believing in an invisible man whos never shown his face or better yet does nothing when you need him the most doesnt seem foolish to you?

im sorry if i seem a little cynical but with all the crime, corruption, greed, selfishness, poverty, war, and dishonesty that is rampat in this world i cant believe that a just god could sit on his ass and just allow it to happen without intervening at least once
 
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