#1 reason, playing SMN drives me nuts.

I hear these stories a lot, Fenrir is a huge contribution to a lower lvl PT. You will be lucky if they invite you as healer =\
 
Negorissimo said:
A SMN without Fenrir is like a RDM without Refresh. D=

But, by no means is that a reason to deny a SMN his partying...

; ;
Click to expand...

The refresh comparison is not quite accurate. Fenrir has amazing melee buffs, but there are still good options available from the other avatars.
 
You know what bothers me most about this debate?

Hypothetical(but not all that unlikely) Scenario

One day, GamerX decides that he'll pick up a copy of this online game he's been hearing a friend of his rave about for a while. Like all of us probably were at some point, he's mildy awestruck by it all.

As a lowly 5BLM, he watches in fascination as a high level Summoner comes running by, psychedelic, radioactive squirrel and all. GamerX decides that's the job for him. He might try to strike up a conversation with that Summoner, he might not. In return, the Summoner might think to mention that SMN is an "Advanced(meaning really advanced) Job," or not. GamerX might have hooked up with a decent LS before level 30, or not.

So, after he's leveled Blm to 18(at least), flipflopped his Whm up to 30(at least), started the quest, found help to get his ruby, finished the quest, leveled SMN to 20 and done all the things it takes to get the "inferior" avatars unlocked, he thinks that he's set for a while(with good reason, imho), only to encounter a lot of us old-timers with the attitude of, "meh . . . No [Fenrir]? [I'm sorry.]"

End Hypothetical

In my opinion, it's not only unfair to ask that of any player you run across, but also inexcusably elitist. Let's see here . . . other top of the line luxuries that are only truly accessible in at least the 40+ level range . . .

GamerX(33mage): [Hello!] [Party]?
GamerY(33melee): [Yes, please] ^^
GamerX: [Peacock charm] [Do you have it?]
 
dont compare fenrir to a peacock charm. lol :D you can make up for ACC with sushi. you can eat a food that gives you fenrir.
 
Honestly it beats games where you setup your specific skills and stats upon creation and then find yourself at level 40 to be a complete gimp and have to completely start over. Sure maybe this guy hits level 40 and realizes he needs Fenrir now, so he goes and he levels his WHM to 60 and gets some friends to help him kill Fenrir - then he goes back and finishes his SMN. It's better than spending 5 months as a character that's completely static and coming to the realization that you totally suck because you didn't understand the complexities of the game when designing your character and having actually wasted your time.
 
You can make up for acc with sushi, true, but aren't you still gimping xp/hour by not getting the absolutely essential melee neck piece for tp gain and using lolsushi in place of something that would signifigantly improve your attack? /sacasm

My point is this:

There are several items(Bastokan Subligar, lesser acc pieces, adequate gear) and things(read Aerial Armor/Earthen Wand) that will improve xp/hour that one might reasonably expect to find in a properly turned out party. There are other items(Republic subby, Peacock amulet/charm, superlative gear) and things(Fenrir's outstanding buffs) that people should be overjoyed to find present in their xp party at the lower to mid levels.

Be glad when you get them. Be content when you can't. Be angry when someone is truly gimp, as in "lol i dun got Titan yet."

By your reasoning, doesn't Blm also not qualify as a beginner job, since one of its defining pieces(Moldavite earring) can't reasonably be obtained by a solo player anywhere below the mid-60's? And that's solo, mind you; let alone finding a competent group to help you obtain that wondrous purple dog.

Wherever the exceptional is expected to be commonplace is where elitism rears its ugly head.

And yes, I could not agree more. It is a great thing that no one is ever 100% locked into a bad setup off of inalterable stats.
 
You can't compare gear to Fenrir. =/
 
you still can't compare fenrir to a moldavite earring or a peacock charm. why? because its an entirely different field.

without fenrir, you *lack* abilities. you don't have something "not as good" - you dont have it * at all *.

when i started the game about 3 years ago now i guess- i leveled RDM to 30, quit RDM, and played SMN. i took SMN to about level48 and quit it. why? because i didn't have most the avatars. i was able to beat a few of the level 20 avatar battles on my own, but i felt gimp. so i took RDM back up, went to 75, got all my avatars on RDM, and then leveled SMN.
 
To what could we reasonably compare it then?

Not a spell, certainly, since there are absolutely zero spells that could compare to the amount of preparation that Fenrir requires. Well . . . perhaps Sleepga II, but having done that largely solo, it didn't seem like such a chore.

Not AF, surely, since they're mostly doable with no more than a couple of high-ish friends.

I'm at a loss here. If not gear, then what could we begin to compare it to?

I only put gear out as an analogy since it, along with some degree of competence, are arguably the only things that other jobs could use to influence the amount of xp/hour a party brings in.
 
Last edited:
neophytal said:
when i started the game about 3 years ago now i guess- i leveled RDM to 30, quit RDM, and played SMN. i took SMN to about level48 and quit it. why? because i didn't have most the avatars. i was able to beat a few of the level 20 avatar battles on my own, but i felt gimp. so i took RDM back up, went to 75, got all my avatars on RDM, and then leveled SMN.
Click to expand...

And I applaud your approach to the game. Having floundered around a bit, I opted to take a similar path myself(75 Bst 4tw!!).

All I'm saying is that the standards we set for ourselves aren't necessarily anything but that - our standards, and it's not always feasible to expect any and everyone to abide by them.

I didn't begin playing until after the 20 cap Avatar fights had been introduced, so I can see where we'd perhaps have different perspectives on the matter, but I don't think the player base as a whole has all that good a record of discerning what exactly SE initially had in mind for the jobs they placed at our disposal. After all, Nins aren't supposed to tank, and Bsts are so obviously not intended to solo >.>
 
neophytal said:
Without fenrir, you *lack* abilities. you don't have something "not as good" - you dont have it * at all *.
Click to expand...

The Roman philosopher and statesman Marcus Araelius(sp) once said something along the lines of:

"When one encounters a thing, one must ask oneself, 'what is its nature; what does it do?'" (thank Hannibal Lecter for that one, btw :P)

That being said, the very nature of the abilities Fenrir brings to the table are only there to increase the efficiency with which a party kills. It is for that reason more than any other that I've chosen to compare Fenrir to gear acquisitions that others may or may not have taken the time to obtain.

From my perspective, it's all a matter of degree. I'm simply stating that if the reigning opinion is that summoners shouldn't reasonably expect to be invited in the absence of Fenrir, no one else should expect to level unless they're prepared to bring to the party all the benefits of gear that would be accessible to someone who has a job of sufficient level to participate in a Fenrir fight.

If that sounds ridiculous, that's only because it is.
 
Reauland said:
To what could we reasonably compare it then?

Not a spell, certainly, since there are absolutely zero spells that could compare to the amount of preparation that Fenrir requires. Well . . . perhaps Sleepga II, but having done that largely solo, it didn't seem like such a chore.

Not AF, surely, since they're mostly doable with no more than a couple of high-ish friends.

I'm at a loss here. If not gear, then what could we begin to compare it to?

I only put gear out as an analogy since it, along with some degree of competence, are arguably the only things that other jobs could use to influence the amount of xp/hour a party brings in.
Click to expand...


BLU spells you could compare it too (though I'm talkng the higher lvl ones, that are impossible to obtain solo). Imho, towards the end, it can be much more difficult to obtain a number of the BLU spells then it is to obtain summons. Hell, something like 5-6 spells are only found in sea.

Frenetic Rip I believe is pretty much a must-have for BLU's at 63+, it combos very well with just TA, and it is part of a combo for accuracy bonus (+10 acc?). Anyone who as ever tried to break an imp's horn.... knows what a bitch it is.
 
Mishaela said:
3-minute Warcry, you tell me. =P
Click to expand...
Mine when i was using it yesterday on my 51/52 SMN's Crimson Howl was still just 30ish seconds. Maybe it gets better as you get higher level.
 
Nugotugo said:
Mine when i was using it yesterday on my 51/52 SMN's Crimson Howl was still just 30ish seconds. Maybe it gets better as you get higher level.
Click to expand...

Anyone know if there is an updated BP chart with durations yet? I'm curious to know what other BP's were affected.
 
Every BP got affected in one way or the other. I'm doing "combo" BPs now! =D

For example: I use now <Crimson Roar>+<Flaming Crush> Combo with Ifrit. He landed a 3,700+ on a Hpmde (weak to fire) at SEA. The only problem is you spend more Magic with this "BP Combos" (84mp more using this example).

ps. Another good one is <Dream Shroud>+<Nether Blast>
 
Negorissimo said:
Every BP got affected in one way or the other. I'm doing "combo" BPs now! =D

For example: I use now <Crimson Roar>+<Flaming Crush> Combo with Ifrit. He landed a 3,700+ on a Hpmde (weak to fire) at SEA. The only problem is you spend more Magic with this "BP Combos" (84mp more using this example).

ps. Another good one is <Dream Shroud>+<Nether Blast>
Click to expand...

It's not worth the mp if you are solo, and Flaming Crush can do over 4k without Warcry on those Hpemdes if your lucky. Also I don't think being weak to Fire means anything because Flaming Crush is physical not Fire damage.
 
Crosis said:
It's not worth the mp if you are solo, and Flaming Crush can do over 4k without Warcry on those Hpemdes if your lucky. Also I don't think being weak to Fire means anything because Flaming Crush is physical not Fire damage.
Click to expand...


Predator Claws has not worked so hot on them for me.


I do constant 3k on them with FC and have gotten the lucky shot too. But when I started testing the highest i've done is 3,780sumthing and that was with the buff 1st. ^^

ps. I'm talking about the Tough ones.
 
physical BPs have no relation to the monsters weakness. there are a few mobs where certain BPs work better than others, for some reason, though (like your example).

predator claws is the highest damaging overall. (but multi-hit so acc is important)

spinning dive is most accurate physical bp.

ifrit normally sucks in general and isnt used much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top