2nd subjob instead of merit points

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Villarel

Airship Passenger
Adventurer
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Jun 23, 2004
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242
There should be a 2nd subjob that is 1/3 your main level.

For example you can be 75PLD/37NIN/25WAR. Now that would be a tank!
Or 75MNK/37NIN/25WAR would be the ultimate damage dealer.

Forget Merit Points, they suck. Give me a 2nd subjob.
 
Can you explain merit points?
 
ooohhh . . . *drools* RDM/BLM/WHM. I could have all the basic WHM -na spells, Divine Seal, and still have my Warp, Drain, Aspir, Conserve MP, and Elemental Seal.

Quick aside, does anyone else feel that they should have an emoticon for drool, or is it just me?
 
alanon said:
Can you explain merit points?
Click to expand...

At Lv75, can you talk to a Moogle who is located next to Maat to start earning Merit Points.

Every 10k experience points you get is worth 1 merit pt.

For every 3 merit pt. you can raise the maximum value of the stat +1. You can only raise the stat 3 times.

Or, with 1 merit pt. you can raise your maximum MP +10. I think you can only raise your max MP 3 times.
 
Villarel said:
alanon said:
Can you explain merit points?
Click to expand...

At Lv75, can you talk to a Moogle who is located next to Maat to start earning Merit Points.

Every 10k experience points you get is worth 1 merit pt.

For every 3 merit pt. you can raise the maximum value of the stat +1. You can only raise the stat 3 times.

Or, with 1 merit pt. you can raise your maximum MP +10. I think you can only raise your max MP 3 times.
Click to expand...

Wow you're right, that does sound kind of worthless. So Im going to spend hours xping the slightly boost the stats of a job I can not currently advance farther anyway?
 
Once you hit lvl 75 I really don't see the motivation to continue with that class except for an occational high end mob fight or farming. I would probably start raising a new class with the hope of capping some different crafting skills. I probably won't have to worry about that though. 75 is only a dream.
 
This plays directly into this game's biggest balance issue;

Most jobs are incomplete.

When you only consider the 6 'Basic' jobs, this game has wonderful balance.

Each of the 6 of them are 'complete'. What is ''completeness", you may ask? Each of the 6 basic jobs can function in a party without a subjob. The main job, is thus, complete. Each has a function.

WAR is the tank.
MNK is the damage.
THF is the hate control and backup damage.
WHM is the healer.
BLM is the nuker.
RDM is the support and backup WHM/BLM.

Perfection. Now, look at the subjob choices. All 3 Melee Basic jobs can sub the other two. Same with the mages.

WAR/MNK and WAR/THF work.
MNK/WAR and MNK/THF work.
THF/WAR and THF/MNK work.
WHM/BLM and WHM/RDM work.
BLM/WHM and BLM/RDM work.
RDM/WHM and RDM/BLM work.

Flawless balance. 6 complete jobs with 2 subjob choices each. 3 melee, 3 mage. Balance.

And then the advanced jobs appear. Most of them are so horibly incomplete that you would laugh at the thought of taking one in with an improper sub (let alone no sub).

PLD must sub WAR.
NIN must sub WAR.
SMN must sub WHM.
etc, etc, etc.

Variety is the spice of life, and subjobs should be a system in which you choose a sub for the way it might benifit your complete main job. Instead, they become a system in which you need a sub to complete your main job.

Balance = Gone.

This is the first issue that, imho, needs a fixin.
 
Keits, you never stop amazing me with your delivery of good, hard facts :),and your understanding of the balance in a pt dynamic is commendable.

As far the advanced job entering the equation, Ive come to believe that Square-Enix has left that to the players to monkey around with. Some of the bizzare job combos that were ridiculed a few months ago are becoming more common place. As the player base evolves with the game, so does the experimentation.

I was talking to a friend who recently quit the game, and he and his static
were floored when they saw nin/war's starting to "blink tank" a long while back, which leads me to believe that somewhere Square- Enix likes to sit back and watch what kind of crazy shit we come up with :)

I totally agree with you that most jobs are incomplete, it seems as though
the minds behind the game have left us to pick up where they left off.

I had to post some kind of relavant response, I mean c'mon, how often does keits say "please" ^^ j/k baby.....
 
yeah, i think Asia hit the nail square on the head with that. The base jobs are complete, because new players have to use them. they cant grasp advanced tactics and techniques, and party dynamics yet. but by the time they can use advanced jobs, they should (and i empisize SHOULD, we all know most dont) be able to figure it out.
 
Oh my ! What have we here ?
A complete and logical look at Jobs without "I wunt a j0bz dat tankz, killz and caztz" <3

I LOVE QCDN.

And yes i agree. the Main Jobs are complete, because the Game is geared for Party Play. Advanced Jobs rely on Advanced Tactics, and sadly PL, a bunch or really retarded N00bs and other such factors, have made attaining Level 30 pretty much nothing Special.

When i started Playing, and you didn't know how to Provoke by Level 10, you were screwed ... but that was before your average 13 year old, who has never played an MMO, could pop in on Mommy's Credit Card.

IMO Ninja Tanking is ridiculous ... SE would not have a job using it's "Main Function" cost 150+ Gil every Fight. The same goes for Summoner. Avatars cause decent Damage over Time, meleeing, with a few Group Buffs, and the occasional high damage hit ... I always play sum/blm and get shuned for it, because everyone "knowz dat sum is only l337 whan u sub whtm" ... So yes, i agree SE has leaned back and has left us alot to our own Devices. Which i think will Weed out the less dedicated, and/or Impatient. All in all, FFXI is a great MMO. just the PLayerbase is .... more prone to Idiots ... than most. (Try to compare the Playerbase of SWG or EVE to this and you'll laugh.) i wuv my FFXI though ... /sigh
 
The idea is much like a penguin: cute, cuddly, but it just dont fly.

I have thought about this before. Even though it makes a character more diversified that inherently makes it less specialized to a task that is necessary in a party setting. Some of you may be saying well there are job combos w/ 3 that could be made for a specialized task and i dont deny its possible but i would have to do more brainstorming on what those would be or some examples would be nice.
 
Correct if im wrong; But the reason that SMN/BLM doesnt really work is that SNM has no elemental magic skill. This caps your skill at your subjob's level, and reders your nukes completely useless.

Ya?
 
I was just thinking about the "SE left the advanced jobs open to interpretation" comment.... I liked the comment at first, and then it started it annoy me.

Which is better?

A.) Incomplete Main Job with a Sub job that completes it
B.) Incomplete Main job with a Sub job that does not complete it
C.) Complete Main job with a Sub to add extra to it

Without any other facts to use (such as how amazing PLD/WAR and NIN/WAR are)... the answer is obviously (C.). This annoys me, because those incomplete jobs arnt really open to interpretation (not in the way you would want).

In my opinion, finding the one thing your Adv. Job is good at and subbing the correct job to complete this function is not open to interpretation.

:-/
 
Another option would be to be able to play with no subjob. Those who are pure in their job classes would be given some extra abilities or bonuses (ie. pure Dragoons = more damage + no cap on Wyvern)

Basically, complete the jobs as they are and have subjobs available as options to those who want versatility over power.
 
The summoner class is one of the jobs who needs major fixing. First and above all their lack of skills that they have. Like many of you know the only magic skill they have by their nature are the summoning skill. Hence subbing anything with half the strength has its limits. The only sub and skill that doesn't really matter with their low skill is the whm, where the curing still are effective and the na's and other buffs doesn't get resists.

Now putting the subs aside, Summoner has one thing which are profetional. Which is summoning. Then whats the problem, you can only use one ability per one minuit. Meanwhile when they are waiting they can do nothing but curing. The upkeep of the avatars are pretty steep. Carbuncle has an initial upkeep of 1 (I think fenrir too) other avataras except fenrir has initial 3 mp per tick mp slip and lastly the elementals has an upkeep of initial 4 mp per tick. This will increase by one point every 9 levels you gain. So you end up with 8mp for carbuncle and fenrir, 11mp for the rest and 12 mp per sec for the elemental. Without having alot of MP cut items and at the least 1 refresh item combined with your auto refresh, you cannot summon an avatar without the mp slip.

Further more, the accuracy of the summons and their evation is not that good eighther even having the AF equiped against anything higher than tough. So that leaves with having the avatar up for melee not really usefull.

Lastly if you take completely the sub job system. You will see... the summoner is the only class which will suffer. Since their movement are limited to once per minuit, you cannot do a thing while waiting for the recast timer to hit 0.

Back to topic:

Taking the original poster's idea to the summoner, they really don't really have any benefits having more than a whm sub. Perhaps a rdm but a lvl 19 rdm will grant only Fast cast with nothing new. Blm doesn't even have conserve mp so that goes out of the picture and subbing a melee sub doesn't actually help at all.

Put pld for example. They can dual wield but at the same time they will use the shield bash ability. Even as Pld/War/Nin combo, they really won't add that much. They are busy using cure's and flashes and utusemi1 with the slow cast time it won't help much eighther.
 
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