5 Most Horrifying Things Corporations Are Taking Over

who said the founding fathers loved corporations? who said corporations look out for your best interest?


And sure, let's remove peoples ability to have a decent internet at home and see how much more the economy crashes as a great deal of the economy is kept going thanks to the internet

theres why we will never agree, you see the government NOT PROVIDING something for you, as them actively taking it away. I will never be able to wrap my mind around that kind of thinking. that's a whole hell of alot of self entitlement you got there if you ask me

Is this a hard concept to get across? I know you hate government so much, but wouldn't it be nice if, for once, the government did protect our country from the greed big businesses, ones even not of our country, inflict on our country?

Yeah, that'd be great, but you seem to think blindly giving the government MORE power over private capital as the way to do that. that's completely insane if you ask me.

your angry at corporations for getting away with playing the system, I think you should be angry at the government that is ALLOWING(and actively encouraging) THEM TO DO IT!
 
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Okay, since military procurement was brought up, I'll chime in on that one.

Now.

First, realize that you produced a video as "evidence" that was about as blatantly skewed as anything I've ever seen.

Once we've gotten that out of the way, we can continue.

Part of the problem with military procurement are the time scales involved in developing something so inordinately complex. The two projects that the guy mentioned were, specifically, the Crusader and the Comanche.

The Crusader was the ultimate expression of a weapon system originally intended to fight the Soviets in Eastern Europe, revamped in the mid-90s into a lighter-weight version that was intended to have a reasonable level of airmobile capability, in part do to the difficulties the US Army had in transporting equipment for the first Gulf War.

So the requirements for the Crusader were exceedingly high. It had to have MRSI capability, extremely high accuracy, be fast enough to keep up with an Abrams, and be light enough that two of them could be transported at a time on a C-17.

Unsurprisingly, it wound up being extremely expensive as a result, and once a vehicle hits a certain threshold of complexity, development takes time, and typically runs into difficulties. By the time the Crusader was ready for deployment, we were looking to get into Iraq, and the Army was starting to look at even more mobile systems, and the possibility of urban warfare where large, powerful artillery vehicles would be largely useless, and where a highly-accurate howitzer simply would not be accurate enough to avoid civilian casualties. So they canceled the project and moved resources into refurbishing existing hardware and developing guided artillery munitions.

Though, to be totally honest, I recall the program costing in the neighborhood of $10-12 billion when it was canceled; not the $40 billion quoted by the talking head.

Now, as for the helicopter.

The Comanche's development ultimately began in the 80's, and it was intended to serve as a replacement for a number of existing platforms, filling the role of a scout helicopter along with that of a light attack helicopter. And it had to have stealth capabilities, and all the other usual bells and whistles that people want it to have.

So, again. Very high requirements are set for the program. A lengthy design phase. And ultimately, by the time the system was ready to start deployment... the requirements had changed. A stealth helicopter was unnecessary; UAVs could do the job cheaply, with no risk to human operators, and while the Comanche would have had capabilities that no UAV could match... it would also have been a hell of a lot more expensive, more difficult to deploy, and subject to the possibility of getting shot down and losing servicemen as a result.

So the program was canceled, though as with the Crusader, I remember the costs being in the neighborhood of $7-8 billion, not $40 billion.

I suspect your talking head was referring to what the programs might have cost in the long run, in terms of acquisition.

Ultimately, the issue with both systems was that the bar was set too high, and rather than adjust the bar, the government allowed the programs to continue until they ultimately actually managed to meet that bar. The Crusader and the Comanche were both extremely impressive weapon systems; they simply took too long to develop.

Now, you could respond at this point that the corporations in charge of development dragged it out, milked the government for money, and to an extent that could be true. But it's also true that they were trying to meet the requirements set by the government, and that the corporation stands to make far less money if a development program is canceled, rather than one that actually goes into production.

In short, deliberately fucking around in development does not make the company money in even the medium-term, let along the long-term; it's unlikely that a profit-driven entity would intentionally fuck itself in that obvious a fashion.

Now.

The JLTV.

See, there's a certain level of irony attached to the JLTV. Because what it is, is a compromise vehicle; it's designed to meet two wildly-divergent sets of requirements. Arguably not just divergent, but to an extent mutually exclusive.

Basically, it's designed to function as a high-mobility scout/transport vehicle, and a mine-resistant armored patrol vehicle.

The Humvee was designed to fulfill the first function alone, and did a pretty good job of it. It was never intended to be used in the role it found itself occupying in the, well, occupation of Iraq.

There's a good reason for that, of course. MRAPs rely on hull shaping to deflect blasts that would otherwise destroy the vehicle (though there is a significant flaw in that theory, which I'll get to later). A V-shaped bottom hull means that the center of your vehicle must be raised to give adequate ground clearance; to accomplish this the center of gravity for the entire vehicle must be raised.

Remember the roll-over issue that SUVs were suffering? It's like that, compounded by the fact that these vehicles are much larger, and heavily armored to boot.

A high center of gravity is contraindicated for a high-mobility vehicle. You don't want it, ever. It fucks you over in just about every sense possible when it comes to rough terrain driving.

So.

The JLTV is trying to do both, and apparently it might actually succeed.

But why is it trying?

That's the real question that you should be asking about that program. Not the pricetag (which is actually quite reasonable, relatively speaking; most of the current generation of MRAPs runs over $400,000 each anyway), but why the Army feels it's necessary to develop something like the JLTV.

And the answer, of course, is that the Army is no more immune to bad press than the rest of us. When the Humvees began to see use as patrol vehicles in Iraq, a role they were never intended for and a role to which they were ill-suited, but a role which the Army had no other vehicle in the inventory to fill, a lot of troops died when they came under ambush, or under attack from IEDs. The Army needs a lot of trucks; there are over 160,000 Humvees in the inventory.

Compared to that, there are maybe 10,000 MRAPs in the US inventory.

So the JLTV is designed to cover both possibilities. It will be more expensive than the Humvee as a result; hopefully it will remain less expensive than the existing MRAPs we're currently procuring and deploying, while retaining a sufficient level of mobility to allow the Humvee to be retired to rear-echelon duties.

I am puzzled about his claim that the requirements were reduced; last I heard, the Army had actually increased the performance requirements for the hull against IEDs. Then again, given the general inaccuracy of most of what he was saying, I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.

Incidentally, when I was talking about the MRAPs I mentioned that there was/is a major design flaw already extant and identified with the concept of the V-hull for deflecting explosions.

Specifically, it only works on explosions. On blast and fragmentation damage. Doesn't do nearly as well against an armor-piercing mine.

We're investing billions of dollars in a weapon system that I can see a competent terrorist overcoming in about 3 hours of design and machining time. (Take armor-piercing warhead off of RPG rocket. Dismount engine. Create housing for warhead, probably out of sufficiently large tin can. Craft either remote detonation capability, or other autonomous trigger mechanism. Invest in post-hole digger. Go to road. Dig post hole. Drop improvised mine into hole. Wait for patrol. Carnage ensues.)

Anyhoo.

A major part of the problem with the procurement system that exists today has relatively little to do with corporate greed, or bribery.

It has to do with governmental greed and bribery. But not the way you're thinking.

See, when a weapons system goes into production, someone has to build it. Which means that, somewhere in this great country of ours, jobs are going to be created, and tax money is going to be made.

Politicians, being what they are, are keen to have these jobs and taxes enter into their respective electorates; after all, they can then take credit for the jobs created, and the tax revenues generated.

They're bribing people all right. They're bribing their electorates.

So yes, you get nonsense like this deal with the alternate engine program for the F-35. And you get politicians lobbying to continue programs not out of any actual interest in the capabilities it might offer to the US military, but because it's produced in their home district and they like having more of their people fat and happy.

They have, in fact, been known to require less-efficient means of production in order to spread that wealth around before they allow a system to go into production.

So.

Speaking of people who don't educate themselves.

You are one of them.
 
very interesting post raes, I didn't touch on the video because I wasn't really informed enough on the particulars to pick it apart, but I know what skewed bullshit smells like.

Im getting sick of this whole thread but I don't wanna leave things on a bad note(i have nothing personal against you elem)

Ultimately we agree on more then you think ele.

I agree corporations have far to much pull in government, I agree that tax loop holes should be closed up so corporations actaully pay the tax's they owe, I agree Corporation should not get special treatment under the law and be afforded the ability to pull strings and bend(or outright break) laws.

What we disagree on is the root cause of the problem, you seem the think the root cause of the problem is greed and lack of ethics in corporations,

I personally believe the root cause of the problem is the fact that we have professional WHORES as elected officials. and a whole lot of horny "johns" for voters, all eager to get a piece of that sweet sweet government ass for themselves.

Just keep in that mind the next time an official is promising you a piece of that ass, its a dirty whore making you that promise, and that ass is most likely riddled with std's.
 
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Oh, and one more thing.

That bit at the end, where the Army goes to Iraq with a chemical weapon detection system that keeps returning false positives, and the Marines go in with cages full of canaries? And the Marine approach is lauded as inventive "thinking outside the box", and making do with limited resources?

That is, without a doubt, one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard.

We're not talking about going to war in a coal mine.

One of the fears in the Iraq War was that the Iraqis had successfully weaponized VX gas. They'd admitted to doing the research, after all.

VX is staggeringly lethal. If there are 30 milligrams of VX per cubic meter of air, it will kill you dead inside of a minute. By the time you've noticed "Oh shit, the canary is dead!" you might as well tack on "And so is Jones, Smith, Carter, and holy shit everyone else in the platoon!". Get less than 10 mg of it directly on your skin, and you'd better hope there's an atropine shot close to hand, because otherwise you're a dead man.

Assuming this event even occurred (and I have my doubts), the canary's sole function would have been to serve as reassurance for troops that probably would have suffered significant casualties if there had, indeed, been WMDs in Iraq.
 
Fucking hate when I lose shit I wrote up -_-

Basically, to sum up:

First the video I posted the person who I told you to watch is still active in the military, served in Afghanistan, worked for the CIA, and far likely more knowledgable than you and isn't just someone "spewing skewed bullshit" (though to be fair that's more Thelona's words)

Second, I don't deny the government greed and corruption and I do see that it's a fundamental difference in us. You see first hand the government doing these things, but quite often look behind and see who is funding and encouraging them and it's very often a private industry. Who is more to blame I guess is dependent on your mindset. I say it's the one who encourages and gives the option to do such evil or even (at this point) strong arms people to obey them or they'll be unable to be in politics again thanks to their money and propaganda against them. However, you guys blame far more the person who is purposely taking bribes and whatnot. I agree they are very much to blame, but it's, at this point, the system that's at fault and that system is far more in control by the corporations, hence my ire more directed to corporations than at government (which does also have my ire too for going along with it). I don't see us convincing either of us there >.> just a mindset difference. Oh well. At least we do seem to all agree both play a part in the blame.

Third, you do realize that our military industry is very much not done by the government facilities but money paid to private contractors ya? You realize these very same private contractors give a great deal of money to politicians during their campaigns so in turn those politicians push for more funding to the military and no call to end the wars ya? This is still very much a case of corporate greed. Government greed (specifically those politicians that take that bribe money) is still a part of it, there's no denying that. However, it's the corporate greed that fuels it all. If the psychopaths in charge actually cared about people they'd have not lobbied for continued aggression out of good consciousness. Sure that military industry might employ people, but you'd be surprised how many non-Americans it employs. Yes, we actually DO have many of our weapons and vehicles built outside our country by foreign labor. China, for example, is where many of our weapons and vehicles are made because those same corporations outsourced to them. And, even the jobs left here, if anyone had a sense of the society mattering than themselves they'd realize their job is not for the greater good and find another or just push for their work being less.

Furthermore, if we actually cut our military budget we could cut it by half, still be spending 3 times the amount on it than China (the second largest spender on military) and save about 4 trillion over 10 years. Imagine how much that could improve our country. We could do so much and invest in BETTER industries that would likely create more jobs. We could create new technologies that would help our economy far more than the perpetual wars.

So ya, basically I do agree government has its fair share of blame, but I see the holders of the money and the ones that really perpetuate the system on the level they do as the bigger problem than those who are just blindly greedily going along with it. Though I do think those people should also get what they deserve for doing so. The number of politicians I see claim one thing in their campaign, see the companies sponsoring them, and then see the real things they vote and push for when in government is beyond disgusting. I really wish our country would forbid people from holding ANY office for more than so many terms (dependent on the position). Keep the government bringing in new people so it's harder to buy them all off and to bring fresh new ideas in the government. Also I do wish we'd see campaign finance reform. Bah....
 
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I'll challenge you then.

Produce an article, even a Wikipedia article, that verifies the $80 billion dollar waste he claims.

Produce verifiable proof that we make a single major military weapons system in China. Not uniforms, or random bits of kit. I want to see something significant.

Now, that aside...

You do realize that a very significant number of major advances in the past 50 years are spinoffs from military development programs, right? Little things like the internet, carbon fiber, GPS, etc etc etc. There's actually a pretty fair return on investment in military development.

Edit: It's also one of the smaller portions of the military budget. Operations takes the lion's share of the budget, followed by personnel, then followed by procurement. Development actually clocks in at about $80 billion per year, of late. Compared to $180-200 billion for operations.
 
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You do realize that a very significant number of major advances in the past 50 years are spinoffs from military development programs, right? Little things like the internet, carbon fiber, GPS, etc etc etc. There's actually a pretty fair return on investment in military development.

Don't forget Duct Tape. (ok that was like 60 years but it's more important than the others)
 
You provided articles decrying the abuses perpetrated by PMCs. Hell, I won't even argue that stuff; the DOD has had a marked history (particularly since the Clinton years) of outsourcing services that used to be provided by service members. Private military corporations operate frequently in gray areas of the law (when it comes to firms like Blackwater), and definitely need substantially more oversight than they currently receive. No-bid contracts are also a no-no, but occasionally understandable when necessary (ie, the MRAP situation in Iraq). They should, however, be carefully examined once the immediate need has been fulfilled.

Neither of those articles addresses either of the points I challenged you to prove.

Specifically, proof that a major military weapon system is produced in China, and proof that the Comanche/Crusader programs had an aggregate cost of $80 billion, not the $20 billion I'm aware of.
 
Ah, I thought I was talking about the outsourcing of services too >.> as for the actual hardware, I am not sure about that, I could have been mixing up another story about how we're running outta our own natural resources for most of our expensive high end military bit and what's left is found in China and the like. x.x

As for the 80 billion, wait do you mean when he was talking about an Artillery and Apache? I'll go look.

My point was more disappointed in the waste of money on a vehicle that still met no standards and costed so much.

Anyways, I'll see what I can find.

Curious, this is an aside, of all the budget plans that were proposed, are there any that strike you as being reasonable and plausible?
 
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If you're thinking about the rare-earth situation, the name of that is misleading. They're not all that incredibly rare, as it turns out, and the US used to be a significant producer of the materials.

However.

China has higher-quality deposits, and a much less expensive labor force, so they were basically able to squeeze everyone else out of the market, and the world more-or-less let them do it.

Because China would never use that sort of near-monopoly to further its own agenda, right?

I'll just say it's a good thing for the Japanese that the Chinese are so riddled with corruption.

And, again, as for the JLTV, I'm not aware of it failing to meet any standards, save possibly the unrealistic ones typically set for such equipment. The first I'd heard of the vehicle being inadequate was in that interview, and given that much of the rest of what he was saying is equally unsupported as far as I can tell, I'm tempted to just write him off as talking out of his ass.

Besides, we have Flash Bainite now. And it's awesome.

And again, the systems he referenced were the Crusader artillery platform, and the Comanche scout/attack helicopter.
 
What I can find of those they were scheduled to cost us 40 billion each, and I think one ended up costing 7 billion before scrapped and the other about 10 or so. So ya, if that's what he was referencing (who knows, might not have been) then you are right there x.x

And interesting, that Flash Bainite stuff o.o

As for the not meeting standards so they change the standards, I'll see what I can dig up about that. Again, I'd still take a military man who worked for the CIA's word over that of someone who wouldn't have that kinda intel, but I'll admit skepticism too (hence why I'm searching for sources of such).

Edit: Gonna throw these here cause this has become quite a bit more than what the OP was about sooo.. instead of creating a new thread.











And before we get hatred for Robert Reich, Time Magazine called Robert Reich one of the most Influential Cabinet Members of This Century; One of the Top Ten Business Thinkers according to the WSJl. So.. ya...





I do have to ask, do these people know they can give more money than they are taxed to the government when they file their tax forms? >.> heh... but I get the point that they are trying to make it the standard they are taxed more so the other greedier more selfish (and likely Baby Boomers) that are millionaires pay their fair share too.
 
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Trying to ninja the debate I see. Dirty pool!

Anyhoo.

Reich loves to talk about taxing the rich, and implying that somehow tax revenues are down (remember, wages are largely stable relative to GDP for the middle class for the past 30 years) because the rich "aren't paying their share".

Except that tax revenues as a percentage of GDP (which is the relevant statistic) are actually up, particularly since the "good old days" of 70%+ taxation in the top brackets. Today we get something like 9% of GDP in taxes, whereas then we barely got around 8%.

Article to back me up.

Actually that pretty much covers the rest of that too, in many ways.

There is this odd belief on the left that somehow we can magically increase taxes until we can cover all these programs that have been built up over the years, and that if we do, we won't have to cut spending at all!

Which is horseshit.

It's equally delusional to be on the right, and believe that we can simply slash until we are operating within our limits, and never have to raise taxes again.

Let me break the math down for you.

To cover the 2011 budget, we would need an additional $1.5 trillion or so. Projected GDP was in the neighborhood of $13.5 trillion dollars.

Now, return to that statistic I gave earlier. We get around 9% of GDP in tax revenues.

A simple glance at the two figures for the 2011 budget ($1.5 trillion and $13.5 trillion) reveals that we would have to more than double tax revenues to make up the gap purely by raising taxes.

That is not going to happen.

Cuts must be made, and substantial cuts at that. Cuts to military spending, social spending, and general governmental waste.

Oh, and I love the Big Mike yahoo. "When I think of compassion, I think of big business" sarcasm, how delightful. Because really.

Governmental agencies are so very compassionate.

Oh wait.

They're not.

He's just preaching the old cradle-to-grave mentality that has infested the far left for entirely too long; the notion that not only is it the government's job to take care of everyone, but that the government does so compassionately.
 
I dunno, I kinda agree that we need to actually invest in America in the sense of social spendings for quite a lot of things. Aka schools and roads and various infrastructures. If you mean our real big budget problems in medicare and social security? I'm sure cuts are needed there too. As much as some claim I go "nooo..." And I do agree that just cuts or just taxes raising won't solve anything worth a damn. I just find some of his points interesting :P

I don't quite get when anyone thinks the government's job to take care of anyone, I just think it's their job to assure things that are necessary for the society of their people are there as a somewhat reasonable possibility. Things that are a necessity to actually LIVE should be assured as available for the people. But that's usually just water and some amounts of food (assuring agriculture is a good portion of the nation too). But I've already stated that :P

My biggest problem with our nation is that it's going way too service oriented. It would seem only logical to me that a nation have a fairly reasonable balance of Agricultural, Manufacturing, and Service industries for their nation's employment o.o keeps them self sufficient. I think we're still the world's largest agricultural industry iirc since we have a lot of fertile land, but we are losing a lot of the manufacturing industries. :\
 
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First off: Education spending.

Doesn't solve anything.

The US educational system ranks towards the bottom, performance-wise, of the western nations. Now, part of that has to do with vagaries in how the information is reported, but still, we're obviously doing something wrong, right? I mean, if we were spending as much as the other nations, we'd be doing better, after all.

Except that we spend more than most of them. We spend 2-3 times what Japan does, on a per student basis. And Japan kicks our butts, much like they tend to do with the rest of the world.

Obama's answer to the "education crisis" was to throw money at it, in what is the sadly typical liberal response. Bush's answer was to hold teachers accountable for the performance of their students with punitive measures if they fail to achieve adequate yearly progress, which is ironically more a traditional liberal response than a conservative one, believe it or not.

The fact of the matter is that spending on education has only minimal correlation with performance. Culture is a vastly more significant factor when it comes to determining performance. And in the United States, we have a number of subcultures that place minimal value on education, tend to be disruptive in the classroom, and are doing an excellent job of dragging the averages for the entire nation down with them.

Incidentally, given the topic of this thread, isn't it ironic, don't you think, that the private school industry has vastly superior results to the public school system.

Now.

Public Goods.

By this we mean things like infrastructure, roads, water supplies, street lights. Anything used by everyone, but which nobody wants to pay for. This is the domain of government, and we do spend significant amounts of money on it. We'd spend more, but that money has to come from somewhere, and until shit starts falling down, our short-sighted political leaders have no interest.

Tearing up a road for needed maintenance might provide work for the local road crews, and might be a good expenditure in the long term, but the average congressman has a 1-year window when it comes to return on investment; he's going to be constantly campaigning, after all, given the brevity of congressional terms, so dropping a lot of money (and pissing off a lot of commuters) to do major road/bridge repair isn't really worthwhile for him until it becomes necessary. Until more people are pissed off about the state of the service than there are people who will be pissed off about any interruption in it.

Next.

GDP composition, aka the fear of the service economy.

So, you'd think that, say, a country like Japan would be outdoing us, at least in terms of percentage of GDP in the industrial sector, right? I mean, everyone knows that the United States is the world leader in industrial production (except that they don't, because the media tries very hard to make them believe otherwise), but you'd think that Japan at least, with their notoriously successful technology and automobile industries, would have a more industry-oriented economy.

Except that they're not.

They are, in fact, pretty much a mirror of the United States when it comes to the breakdown of their economy between the big three factors (industry, agriculture, and service). As is most of the western world.

Osnap!

Yes, developing countries like China have a higher percentage of their GDP in the industrial sector. They have to; that's where developing countries make their money. They don't have the levels of general wealth to have large service industries, after all. What they do have is a large populace willing to work for wages that most people in more developed countries would consider insufficient. They also have a higher percentage of their GDP in the agricultural sector; again, they have to. They have a relatively low GDP on a per-capita basis, and a lot of people to feed. Do the math.

Incidentally, people like to freak out about China being the #2 economy in the world, which it is, in terms of nominal GDP. It's still significant less than half the size of the United States economy, of course, but the real freaky bit comes when you break it down on a per capita basis. Yes, they're #2 in nominal GDP. In GDP per capita, they're #95.

Oh, and the United States is like 3rd in terms of agricultural output. Behind China and India. Guess why?!?!
 
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Oh, and in the broader scheme of government intervention in the economy...

This
is awesome.
 
I've been away :P

Anyways,

I don't want to increase spending currently on education, but it seems more and more cuts are coming to education and that's wrong. If they must cut anything cut some of the higher people's pays. I remember a friend showing me NY's superintendents and their pays. Not averages, mind you, the actual pay of all 100+ superintendents across his state. Every single one in the state made over 100,000 dollars. Some made as much as 600,000. More than our own freaking president >.> they could easily cut that shit. Hell, they could probably remove most of the superintendents and combine some areas. Then again, I don't know 100% how much work a superintendent has so I won't say to cut lose their job entirely, but they all certainly don't need that much money. But, that's far more a state issue, obviously. There are plenty of ways to cut spending here and there, but those who are in control of the area refuse to cut where it's needed (smaller number of people higher up getting over paid) and cut where it's not needed (the actual teachers and supplies for kids :\).

So ya, not advocating more spending on education, I'd just like to see less spending cuts on it. At the very least in areas that are going to do more harm than good.

As for public goods... ya that's a problem with our system I think we all agree is bullshit :( the fact they barely work in the year (3 days out of the week, never working in the summer which only is due to before AC when Washington would get unbearably hot and humid in the summer since D.C. was built on a freaking swamp) is bullshit. And bullshit even more they spend 80% of their time (yes 80%) going around gathering money for their freaking campaigning. That's why I want campaign finance reform first and foremost. The government should be doing things, unpopular or not, that are for the best of the country for the long run (infrastructure building) and they prefer to go with what's going to get them re-elected. Kinda why I think we need, at least at the federal level, limited terms for ALL positions of the government (not just Presidential terms). Then they might actually do something in congress and the senate and we'd get more new people in. Making it harder to bribe so many people and keeping people who suck out. Sure we risk losing the good people, but oh well. There are more bad than good at this point anyways.

And my point of us needing to have a balance of Industry/Service/Agriculture is purely based on being more self sufficient. Less hampered by shit that might go down in countries we can't control and assuring we have food to provide for the people, factories to build what we need/want (though need more than want), and of course the services that are fairly essential too. Being primarily one or the other seems disastrous in the long run. Aka being like.. 70% Service (not saying we are) with only 10% Industry and 20% Agriculture and the majority of the industrial aspects being outsourced.

And I'll watch that video in a bit :P on my lunch break.

Edit:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-pros,464/

haha.. forgot about this article :P stumbled upon it again discussing something with someone (of all things we were discussing Satire in things like South Park) and ya. Amusing how prophetic this satirical article was, eh?

Edit 2:

Ok, had a bit of a break between some work stuff I had to do. Watched that video. Tbh that really wasn't that informative at all. And it seemed to skew both of what preached -_- it seems more just to be pure entrainment spruced with someone's opinion on the economy. Oh well.
 
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Point in fact, we're like 75% service, 23% industry, and 2% agricultural. Which is more or less the breakdown for most of the Western world.

And we export food and industrial products. We also import some. This is the nature of the global economy; some people are better at producing certain goods (and services, really), so they will have a competitive edge in those industries. We can impose punitive tariffs in an attempt to maintain local industry, or offer substantial government subsidies (why hello there, Mr. Farm Lobbyist), but the usual result from that kind of action is a round of counter-tariffs/subsidies, and nobody wins.

Prices get higher for everyone, and sure, we're all self-sufficient, but we can have less of what we want.

As for the Onion article...

First off, I'm increasingly tired of the Clinton-worshippers. They're about as irritating as the Reagan-worshippers, and with arguably less reason.

Clinton got lucky.

That's about the sum of it.

He presided over what was essentially a bubble economy. He got to ride the benefits of the peace dividend. There were no significant attacks against America or our allies during his tenure. The substantial number of military interventions he did make ranged from the ineffectual to the downright disastrous (Somalia), of course, but people love him because he didn't put troops on the ground, instead preferring to bomb from the air.

We'd just come out of a recession, and we usually only get them about once every 10 years or so. Bush Sr had to deal with that, and also bit the bullet of the relatively mild tax increases he implemented while he was in office.

All the man really had to do... was nothing.

Secondly, since the Onion is apparently prophetic, you can now castigate them severely for not warning all of us about September 11th.

Seriously, what a bunch of dicks.

Oh, and they didn't warn us that the tech bubble was going to... oh wait, by the time they wrote that article, the tech bubble had already begun to burst.

And tax decreases cause recessions?!?! Holy crap, the Onion knows how everything works!

Except that apparently tax increases can also cause recessions. Hmmm...

And if you don't like that video then you're a stinky poo-head.

That is all.
 
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