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Moink

Moink

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This shit just pisses me off to no end...

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http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/mexicoflag.asp

The article won't allow me to copy, but image should be savory enough to read.
 
Personally I think we should just give Mexico every thing west of I-5 and south of I-40 that covers San Francisco and Los Angeles. And if we leaved the states current government in power nobody from Mexico would have any reason to jump a border!
 
PBParrot said:
Personally I think we should just give Mexico every thing west of I-5 and south of I-40 that covers San Francisco and Los Angeles. And if we leaved the states current government in power nobody from Mexico would have any reason to jump a border!
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How about we do that except for Ventura Co. cause that would suck. I'd rather not be part of Mexico.
 
wait... California is part of America?
 
Personally i dont give a shit what they do with it... its called free speech. Now if they want to add some action to the US being in distress and mexico taking it over then we can have some issues.
 
You're willing to trust something from Snopes Moink? ...........come now sheesh. No need to start bashing on Mexico either, not like the Mexican government asked for them to do this. IF it actually happened, blame the people, not the country to which the flag belongs. Besides, we are in the USA, people are allowed to protest as they see fit, so quit acting like Nazis. The ONE thing not allowed is actual desecration of the flag (i.e. flag burning). So come on, dont start jumpin on the "Bash Mexico and Mexicans" bandwagon -.-
 
Hexx said:
You're willing to trust something from Snopes Moink? ...........come now sheesh. No need to start bashing on Mexico either, not like the Mexican government asked for them to do this. IF it actually happened, blame the people, not the country to which the flag belongs. Besides, we are in the USA, people are allowed to protest as they see fit, so quit acting like Nazis. The ONE thing not allowed is actual desecration of the flag (i.e. flag burning). So come on, dont start jumpin on the "Bash Mexico and Mexicans" bandwagon -.-
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Agreed
 
Not trying to bash Mexico here just Commiefornia
I would much rather live in Mexico than LA or SF
 
Hexx, you took what I said way too literal. I don't supprt Snopes and I'm well aware Mexico isn't involved.

Yes I know protests are permitted under freedom of speech, but its not about freedom of speech. Let them protest, let them expose themselves for being anti-government. But to defile a flag from any nation or to surrender one flag and putting another on top is just disrepectful and no better then flag burnings.

Thats like saying Surrender the UK Flag and putting China over it in the UK.
 
Moink said:
Hexx, you took what I said way too literal. I don't supprt Snopes and I'm well aware Mexico isn't involved.

Yes I know protests are permitted under freedom of speech, but its not about freedom of speech. Let them protest, let them expose themselves for being anti-government. But to defile a flag from any nation or to surrender one flag and putting another on top is just disrepectful and no better then flag burnings.

Thats like saying Surrender the UK Flag and putting China over it in the UK.
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My post was more of a shot at Snopes than anything else, not aimed AT you, srry for that Moink :) but I would think putting one flag over another (and flipping one upside down) isnt in the same league as flag burning (in my opinion at least). But see, thats totally different, China and the UK are not neighbors, and they dont share borders.

I see it from a completely different perspective because I was born and partially raised in Mexico. I came and lived here in the USA as an illegal until roughly my 16th birthday. I just became a citizen (and proud of it) this past March. I have complete allegiance to this great nation, but I also know my roots and respect them. Unfortunately there are people who take the liberties given in this nation for granted. Yes, honor and respect where you came from, but obviously you left there (Mexico) for a reason.

Srry for the rant, but it also grinds my gears when people do this. Problem is, I also hate this whole immigrant stigma that is floating around in the USA.......makes me a tad bit touchy, so yeah my apologies ^^;
 
Moink said:
Yes I know protests are permitted under freedom of speech, but its not about freedom of speech. Let them protest, let them expose themselves for being anti-government. But to defile a flag from any nation or to surrender one flag and putting another on top is just disrepectful and no better then flag burnings.
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You should've just stopped with "I know protests are permitted under freedom of speech," because everything after that undermines the idea of freedom of speech. Limiting speech to only what's "respectful" or makes people feel comfortable isn't freedom of speech. Sometimes rudeness is justified.

Not everyone views the flag as a sacred object. I certainly don't. It's just a symbol. Doing things to it that cheeses people off -- including burning it -- can be a very effective form of protest. Every time I hear someone say "My uncle fought and died for that flag!" or some variant, I want to respond "Then your uncle is a fucking idiot" because there's a difference between a symbol and what the symbol represents.

I also seriously doubt the actions of an irate teenager -- who doesn't have to weigh the pros and cons of his actions and shows little interest beyond giving a hearty "Fuck you" to the establishment -- is likely to be sitting on any committees that would actually be responsible for passing immigration reforms. The kid has no influence, so who cares?

The only e-mails I saw quoted at Snopes are from people opposed to immigration reform. Do you really think this incident was what turned them against the idea? Doubtful. It's just a handy bit of validation for their anti-immigrant sentiment and they latched onto it for lack of anything better. "I was totally in favor of a guest worker program until those teenagers started acting like teenagers. It's not wholesome, and that kind of behavior could lead to dancing, after all."

Plus that story two years old. Why get upset about it now?
 
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Let me take a flag and burn it down on your lawn, or turn it upsidedown with another flag ontop of it and me saying "freedom of speech rights says i can" and see where you go with the action. I bring it up now cus its all i seem to get is anti-american emails in my junk email account since voting has started
 
Viva Mexico! Que se queman los...
No wait. Nevermind.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's something against burning anything, not just flags, on someone else's property without their permission. Way to horrible example, bro.
 
Moink said:
Let me take a flag and burn it down on your lawn, or turn it upsidedown with another flag ontop of it and me saying "freedom of speech rights says i can" and see where you go with the action. I bring it up now cus its all i seem to get is anti-american emails in my junk email account since voting has started
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Glad you can read Xalionaf, I bolded what you appearently are blind to see.:crazy: Also, burnings don't have to be on their lawn, just as much as posting the flag doesn't have to be in their lawn. As long as it is done visually infront of someone or near someone who is a citizen of a nation that the protesters are against.
 
Moink said:
Let me take a flag and burn it down on your lawn, or turn it upsidedown with another flag ontop of it and me saying "freedom of speech rights says i can" and see where you go with the action. I bring it up now cus its all i seem to get is anti-american emails in my junk email account since voting has started
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It wouldn't bother me. You paid for the flag, you can do what you want with it. Flag-burning doesn't bother me a bit, since it's a constitutionally-protected form of protest. It's not even illegal. If you're talking about stealing a flag that belongs to me and doing the same thing, I'd only be annoyed at the destruction of my property, but that's about it.

As for turning it upside down, that really wouldn't bother me because I'd just turn it back after you're gone.

If you want to get upset about flag desecration, I'd be more aggravated by flag-themed paper plates and napkins. A burning flag is a potent form of protest. I'll take that over having it thoughtlessly smothered in barbecue sauce and potato salad and dumped in the trash after the July 4th cookout.
 
Halifirien said:
It wouldn't bother me. You paid for the flag, you can do what you want with it. Flag-burning doesn't bother me a bit, since it's a constitutionally-protected form of protest. It's not even illegal. If you're talking about stealing a flag that belongs to me and doing the same thing, I'd only be annoyed at the destruction of my property, but that's about it.

As for turning it upside down, that really wouldn't bother me because I'd just turn it back after you're gone.
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All politics and no heart... I see, ok.

Military personel just fell in the line of duty and is being put to rest when a swarm of protesters come up to the church and graveyard where is to be put to rest saying anti-government talk and burning flags and being unpatriotic while this man is put to rest that the family of the fallen is just going to stand there and say "its their right" and for the family to not be phased by it.

If all I'm going to recieve is the political backdoor exit to this then lock the damn thread. I was looking for more heart then anything.
 
Moink said:
All politics and no heart... I see, ok.

Military personel just fell in the line of duty and is being put to rest when a swarm of protesters come up to the church and graveyard where is to be put to rest saying anti-government talk and burning flags and being unpatriotic while this man is put to rest that the family of the fallen is just going to stand there and say "its their right" and for the family to not be phased by it.

If all I'm going to recieve is the political backdoor exit to this then lock the damn thread. I was looking for more heart then anything.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? How does a military funeral have anything to do with Hali's perspective on the use of the American flag in protest? We're talking about Halifirien's point of view, not a military family, not a teen from California... Hali's. In his mind, the use of the flag in protest is within people's right. He didn't say that out of anti-American sentiment, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "politics, no heart" crap.

As for you're "example"... of course the family would be upset. And the protesters would be jackasses. BUT that's my opinion, and my opinion doesn't hold anyone else accountable but myself.

Symbols have different connotations for different people, that's why it's a symbol. A picture of something is simply that, a picture. A picture as a symbol takes on a whole new dimension, a wildly varying one.

Don't expect everyone to agree with you're point of view and then claim "they have no heart" when you get shot down. It doesn't mean someone is necessarily unpatriotic, or anti-American, it simply means that they believe in freedom of speech. Which is exactly what that is. Freedom of speech isn't meant to make everyone happy, or be politically correct, it's meant to express feelings.... and shake things up if need be.
 
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