9/11 staged by the US evidence video

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and again you put words in my mouth, when i stated before my thoughts and questions dont come from these videos.
How? I didn't even post anything about the videos in my previous post. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of now. Please quote me where I put words in your mouth.
admit defeat? because i dont like when people accuse me of saying something i didnt?
No, you admit defeat by accusing your oppenent of riding someones dick.
not pushing anything. not once in here have i come out and said, YOU GOTTA READ THIS!
or watch this! and after that you gotta believe it because just cause some people say it its gotta be true!
your trying to force your side of beliefs on people that refuse to believe it.
This is funny. You first say you aren't pushing ideas, then you accuse me of pushing ideas. Is that the best response you can give? I define pushing as constantly posting and defending the conspiracy ideas (I did not say the ideas from the video :mad:).
you quote me all you want, if you cant read and interpret what i said correctly, you should sit this thread out and take a breather cause your just sounding more and more like an asshole who just doesnt want his word to look any less intelligent.
Once again you admit defeat by having to resort to personal insults. I have countered every point you present in a respectful manner without having to resort to personal attacks and that makes me the asshole?
 
I believe in science and engineering. You are pushing conspiracy theories that rely on fuzzy film and hand waving phsyics. Who is pushing false statements?
thats where. when ive said before i dont believe most of the videos at all.
 
Psylentcuda said:
holy fuck, I've herd some of the most idiotic comments EVER in this thread. Shit from "Osama is good, Bush is evil" to "the government wants us all dead so they can take over the world."

I don't think anyone here ever said Osama was good... or anything about the government wanting us all dead. I'd like a direct quote on that one please.

Why the hell, when anything happens does there have to be a conspiracy and a cover-up.

Because our government lies to us more often than it tells the truth.

People dont like Bush, that's a fact. So the left wing anarchists produce this propoganda horse shit in order to try to decrease his power in the United States.

There is no such thing as left wing anarchist... Anarchists want no government. Left wingers want a democratic government. Noone wants to "decrease the power in the united stated". I'd like a quote from that one too.

Look at what it's done so far, we can't work United because people are too busy throwing out all their ideas of why they don't like Bush.

We can't work united because we are under the 2 party system. There is no difference in the way Librals treat bush and the way Conservatives treated clinton. It is indeed a two way street.

Talk to the soldiers who have been to Iraq or Afghanistan, there's a reason 9 out of 10 will tell you "Yeah the U.S.A. is doing something worthwile over there."

There are many soldiers with many different opinions. Unless you have have numbers to back it up, I'm gonna have to say that is a gross misrepresentation of opinions and it was purely a guess based on what you believe to be true and not based on facts.

But the only thing the general public sees is roadside bomb, Iraqi's killed, soldiers lost, blah blah blah. The media will take anything people are interested in, and turn it to feul their own beliefs. Case and point, Michael Moore. He makes a movie about how Bush is horrid. He then goes on The O'Riely Factor, is made a fool, and has a counter movie produced by the right wing that makes him movie look like a joke. Somehow people still believe it.

I don't remember him being on the O'Riely factor. I'd very much like to see it. Bill Oriely is liar and a biggot, I'd like to see what moore had to say to him.

Also, I never saw this movie that countered F9/11. Any information you could supply would be great.

Materorion said:
back when the micheal moore vid was still new, a friend of mine saw it. i wont watch it because i think the guy is an idiot. but i did ask them what it was about and what some of moores' ideas were in that movie. needless to say, the 4-5 things that my friend stated that were in the video, i came up with a reason for without hesitation or having to think about the answer. its been a while, so i dont even recall anything about the movie

I don't think you are entitled to have an opinion on something you've never seen.

moore is one of those people that believes things against the government and dislikes the person in office. so, he comes up with things he believes are correct or things he wants people to believe without having full truth to it.

In 1776, those guys were called patriots. If you had seen the movie, you'd know most of the info is footage of actual news broadcasts. There are bits here and there where he does interviews of sorts, but there is only one that lasts long enough to speak of, and that's the interview he did with this woman that lost a son to the war. She was from Flint, Michael moores hometown, that's why he did an in-depth story.
 
Trippyhippy said:
Because our government lies to us more often than it tells the truth.
and you base your opinion on what? or is this just what you THINK


Trippyhippy said:
I don't think you are entitled to have an opinion on something you've never seen.
if thats the case, you are not entitled to have an opinion about anything. last time i checked, anyone is entitled an opinion about anything. and i have seen him in interviews. he doesnt back up what he says when hes confronted with it in those interviews



Trippyhippy said:
In 1776, those guys were called patriots. If you had seen the movie, you'd know most of the info is footage of actual news broadcasts. There are bits here and there where he does interviews of sorts, but there is only one that lasts long enough to speak of, and that's the interview he did with this woman that lost a son to the war. She was from Flint, Michael moores hometown, that's why he did an in-depth story.
so, technically, he made a movie about news interviews? seems pointless to me which makes him seem even lower than what i thought of hiim before
 
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Trippyhippy said:
Because our government lies to us more often than it tells the truth.

Agreed


Trippyhippy said:
I don't remember him being on the O'Riely factor. I'd very much like to see it. Bill Oriely is liar and a biggot, I'd like to see what moore had to say to him.

Also, I never saw this movie that countered F9/11. Any information you could supply would be great.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427228/

http://www.celsius4111.com/

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

Here's a site.

http://www.oilempire.us/michaelmoore.html

Moore is a big fat liar. =)


Trippyhippy said:
In 1776, those guys were called patriots. If you had seen the movie, you'd know most of the info is footage of actual news broadcasts. There are bits here and there where he does interviews of sorts, but there is only one that lasts long enough to speak of, and that's the interview he did with this woman that lost a son to the war. She was from Flint, Michael moores hometown, that's why he did an in-depth story.

Watch Fahrenhype 9/11.
 
Chasym said:
Rones said:
I believe in science and engineering. You are pushing conspiracy theories that rely on fuzzy film and hand waving phsyics. Who is pushing false statements?
thats where. when ive said before i dont believe most of the videos at all.
This sure looks like fuzzy film:
170506doctored.gif


From your first post in this thread:
Chasym said:
...i was filled with questions be the obvious truths in this video.
You call what you see in the video "obvious truths", which means you believe it.

From post 8:
Chasym said:
And can you explain why some things aired live on 9/11 and have never been replayed when the news played scenes over and over, the other explosions for example,
You are basing that on statements from the video that there were other explosions which again means you believed the video.
Chaysm said:
this is a topic of beliefs really, Alot of people believe the conspiracy theory alot believe what the news reports
So you started a topic of beliefs with a video you now claim to not believe now?
Chaysm said:
and thats ALOT of scientific analysis put into play for each small detail that furthers me to believe as i do.
Here you even use the word 'belief'. How could something further your belief if you don't believe it?

I'm beginning to think you don't understand the definiton of belief.
1. any cognitive content held as true
2. impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Notice the example in the second form I bolded and compare it with this statement you made:
Chasym said:
well its 730 am, i just watched that vid and read alot of stuff...and it only gave me more questions, More belief that the official story is not the final story or the real story.
If you don't believe the video then why did you believe more? If you didn't believe it, your belief shouldn't have changed.

Hopefully you can now see I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm going off what you wrote in this thread. Yes, I have seen the numerous times where you claim to not believe. However, you use that more as a defense reaction whenever someone challenges you on your defensive statements of the video. Either you believe what you see or you don't. Just don't flip flop between them when its convient for positioning in the discussion.
 
Rones said:
This sure looks like fuzzy film:
170506doctored.gif


From your first post in this thread:

You call what you see in the video "obvious truths", which means you believe it.

From post 8:

You are basing that on statements from the video that there were other explosions which again means you believed the video.

So you started a topic of beliefs with a video you now claim to not believe now?

Here you even use the word 'belief'. How could something further your belief if you don't believe it?

I'm beginning to think you don't understand the definiton of belief.
1. any cognitive content held as true
2. impression: a vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"

Notice the example in the second form I bolded and compare it with this statement you made:

If you don't believe the video then why did you believe more? If you didn't believe it, your belief shouldn't have changed.

Hopefully you can now see I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm going off what you wrote in this thread. Yes, I have seen the numerous times where you claim to not believe. However, you use that more as a defense reaction whenever someone challenges you on your defensive statements of the video. Either you believe what you see or you don't. Just don't flip flop between them when its convient for positioning in the discussion.

you cannot seem to read my friend. Im getting tired of repeating myself so ill give it to you straight one last time. Then you can talk to a wall for all i care.
Obvious truths, Because THE REAL LIVE footage from the ACTUAL news reports that i have a VHS of shows the stuff that is not being replayed on the air, the "other" explosions are on the day 1 live footage that i have said, Over and over has been skipped over on televised replayed.
This is not a conspiracy video on the net, This came from the ACTUAL media footage, you know the media, the thing your putting so much stock into aired all this live.
What ive said over and over again you seem to misread, is why dont they play those points of the footage on replays? they skip parts.
for the 1000th time.
those are the obvious truths that made me go back and look through my own tape taken from the live tv footage.

beyond that, i never said i believed anything in the video. i said i believed ONE thing that was shown in that video and found in my own tapes of the actual televised footage.

i know the definition of belief, i dont think you understand comprehending what people say.
so are you admitting defeat by challenging my intelligence? you can have some of that back too then.

That film, as i stated is NOT a real film, it is an edited GIF file of the pentagon footage released that mocks it. because it shows nothing but an explosion and something thats supposed to be a plane nose and is clearly too small?
Can you quote where i said that was supposed to be a real video? What about the part where i even said what the guy who made it said? At least the fake one showed a plane! is the point of the file being created.

if you havent noticed by now after me repeating myself over and over the reason why i believed more than before, and the above repeated explanation. Then i could always slow it down and double space everything for you. But why waste any more of my time?

ive defended the same thing ive defended since i started this thread. My right to my own opinion. And to make sure what i say isnt twisted by someone who didnt comprehend it correctly.

ive lost utmost respect for how your trying to twist my words to form what you wanna say here for you. I was told you always had to be correct, but i thought you were going to help with an intelligent convo. Guess i was wrong.
Until you can stop nit picking what i say to fit what you wanna say i would ask that you just stop.
Cause im tired of repeating myself and having to clarify everything further and further for you.
This thread lost its purpose and im just tired of coming in here to see something i didnt say.
So. im done.
and since im sure you want it.
you can have your last word now.
 
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Obvious truths, Because THE REAL LIVE footage from the ACTUAL news reports that i have a VHS of shows the stuff that is not being replayed on the air, the "other" explosions are on the day 1 live footage that i have said, Over and over has been skipped over on televised replayed.
This is not a conspiracy video on the net, This came from the ACTUAL media footage, you know the media, the thing your putting so much stock into aired all this live.
I love how you worded this. Very well done. However, its a subject change from what I actually commented about. You also only posted the claim that the media never replays it once which I refuted and you provided no proof. The history channel along with other documenteries show it all. The reason you don't see it there is either because it didn't happen, or wasn't noticeable from that cameras view.

Now, the origonal point of my comment was your statement of 'obvious truths' which is in reference to things seen in the video you origonally posted. What you claim as 'obvious truths' and try to play off as things that don't require belief, are indead parts that fall under question and require you to believe to use them. You believe there was clouds forming at the bottom. I couldn't see any in the video even when he outlined them. You believe there were explosions. I think the sounds were something else, either recording errors, other things entirelly, snapping reinforcements, or even fakes added later. Thus, yes you do have to believe in those things to call them 'obvious truths'.
What ive said over and over again you seem to misread, is why dont they play those points of the footage on replays? they skip parts.
for the 1000th time.
You mean for the 2nd time. Like I said the first time, if there was more to show, it would mean better ratings for the media provider which means more money. Media's primary concern at all time is money. If they could show something that legitmately happened to boost ratings, they would. If you think the government is bad about money, the media is worse. They will do anything to make money and they could make a lot of money if there was legitamate film that proves their was a conspiracy.
so are you admitting defeat by challenging my intelligence? you can have some of that back too then.
Questioning whether you have the improper definition of a word isn't questioning your intelligence. It is an attempt at finding the root of the disagreement.
That film, as i stated is NOT a real film, it is an edited GIF file of the pentagon footage released that mocks it. because it shows nothing but an explosion and something thats supposed to be a plane nose and is clearly too small?
Can you quote where i said that was supposed to be a real video? What about the part where i even said what the guy who made it said? At least the fake one showed a plane! is the point of the file being created.
Can you quote where I accused you of stating that to be a real video? I included it as a light hearted play on the literal words, but you clearly missed that. So defensive over something that wasn't even attacked.
if you havent noticed by now after me repeating myself over and over the reason why i believed more than before, and the above repeated explanation.
I didn't ask why you believed. I was simply trying to show where you had stated that you did believe. Remember, that's what I was responding to begin with. You said you didn't, I provided examples where you stated you did. No where in that exchange did I ask why (the 'why' was earlier when we were having a discussion on topic, but you usually choose not to answer).
ive lost utmost respect for how your trying to twist my words to form what you wanna say here for you. I was told you always had to be correct, but i thought you were going to help with an intelligent convo. Guess i was wrong.
Every point you raised I responded with a respectful counter response, usually with evidence to back it up. How did that not contribute to an intelligent conversation? That's more than you did on most of your rambling, random claims that I countered.
This thread lost its purpose and im just tired of coming in here to see something i didnt say.
...You do understand quotes right? They are exact copies words you said. How can you claims these are not things you said?

You say you repeat yourself alot, but what you are repeating is the claim of repeating. You aren't actually repeating content because you haven't provided content. At the core you claim to repeat something that you did not say. About the only thing you are correct in claiming to repeat yourself on is saying "I don't believe". However, that alone doesn't counter what I provided in my previous post.

If you wanted on topic discussion, you should have provided your sources for more of your random claims or tried to counter some of the arguments used against your view. You did neither, yet refused to step down from the discussion. Thus, I continued in the only venue you allowed. When you refuse to have a logical discussion, but won't bow out, this is always the result.

I don't care about last post. I have let Trippy and Mokk have it on occasion too. I tend to get it most often because I do not grow tired of threads as quickly. The discussion is fun to me. If you don't enjoy it, you probably shouldn't start controversial threads.
 
Direwolf said:
To that point. I have ridden in helicopters a couple of times before. Those where news helicopters not rescue copters. First off they are not qualified to deal with panicking people. People who are panicking are DANGEROUS, we are talking a rabid dog dangerous. Ever hear of the term mob mentality? Those people where not qualified for dealing with them.

Not to mention the point that helicpoters need to be carefuly set to a certain wheight limit. They are delicate machines, if you try to pile people in them they are going to go down.

I like Rone's links. They go a long way to debunk all the crazies out there who have little or no credentials other then what they dug up on the internet. I think this argument is going nowhere fast and that is hardly suprising. I find thought that people do not like proof. Look at what happened to Galelio, same deal, proof means nothing to those who do not want to believe it.

Exactly. If anyone here is a trained scuba-diver, you know about narcosis when going into deep waters. Narcosis basically causes the instincs in your body to nullify, and causes overreaction to many things. Now, narcosis is not just in scuba-diving. When in a deep panic, and near life or death, you don't think. Who the hell will think when they are going to die? Well, some people did, for thye managed to escape. But the ones trapped had no reason to think. But we don't know what was going through their heads at the time, so that may or may not be true. Some decided to jump instead of burning in the inferno. While others couldn't jump, and unfortunately burned. Another point on narcosis, especially in real life situations. Scuba-divers that go into deep-diving exercises never bring a partner, for if one gets into a deep narcosis, and starts wasting air, their partner will be attacked by the suffocating diver. That's the same with a drowning person. And that;s the same with people in a burning building. Rescue helicopter personell have to take account for the damage they may take. There is no point to save someone when you will die utterly, and there is even no hope to save them. And they were news helicopters, they don't have the correct safety equipment or ladders or carriages to save anyone. It's not their job, and it was out of their grasps.
 
masterorion said:
and you base your opinion on what? or is this just what you THINK

I base my opinion on my own experiences, just like everyone else. There was a post earlier in this thread with a list of conspiricies that turned out to be true. I have experienced my government lying. Many times. Granted they tell the truth about little stuff every day. But that is what your supposed to do.


if thats the case, you are not entitled to have an opinion about anything. last time i checked, anyone is entitled an opinion about anything. and i have seen him in interviews. he doesnt back up what he says when hes confronted with it in those interviews

I can buy that. Sure, you can have an opinion but it holds very little wieght because you have nothing to base your opinion on. You haven't seen the movie and you said all you've heard about it, you've forgotten. What do you base your opinion on and why do you feel so strongly about it?


so, technically, he made a movie about news interviews? seems pointless to me which makes him seem even lower than what i thought of hiim before

He used factual information. At times he made suggestive comments in about the clips in the movie. He was a smart ass about it tho. Anyone that didn't agree with his opinion before the movie, damn sure won't after it. He was smug about it. Smelling your own farts style smug. The same reason Democrats don't like GWB as a person.
 
It is all a matter of opinion. The government has made statements that were not entirely true. Michael Moore's movie, "Farenheit 9/11" is also based on interviews, audio, and video clips. So, the documentary portion of "Farenheit 9/11" is true. Howeverm the whole movie is not entirely all true. Some of it is baised, but that's because of Moore's comments. He also did not use all of the audio and video clips, only enough to make the government look bad. If you've been swayed by "Farenheit 9/11", I would suggest "Farenhype 9/11" or "Celsius 411", because those movies show more of the clips shown in "Farenheit 9/11", which shows what was really implied in the audio and video clips.
 
He used factual information.

Michael Moore doesn't let facts get in the way of his agenda!
 
You know what freaks me out about that Pentagon video? lol

Well right when the airplane appears (The Nose of the plane).. if you notice the background there's like a tree or building where part of the plane should be if it's going straight on to hit the pentagon. I keep watching it over and over and I'm thinking... "Where's the rest of it"? >< Then I think... "But where are all those people who were on that plane?" ahhhh lol
 
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Valcristiel said:
You know what freaks me out about that Pentagon video? lol

Well right when the airplane appears (The Nose of the plane).. if you notice the background there's like a tree or building where part of the plane should be if it's going straight on to hit the pentagon. I keep watching it over and over and I'm thinking... "Where's the rest of it"? >< Then I think... "But where are all those people who were on that plane?" ahhhh lol

The plane was moving at 250 MPH, most cameras wouldn't be able to capture the plane at that speed very well.

Also, the plane will look stretched out and flattened at that speed.
 
So then... shouldn't there be a blur of somesort(IN place of that tree or building)? lol I cut that piece out of the background and the damn thing looks like a UFO lol NOT SAYING IT IS lol ,but the shape of one haha oh crap.

Then common sense hits me in the face "Why would somebody consipre to kill their own people and be able to live with themselves" lol Especially with terrorists... for that matter.

I think that vid where they behead that poor dude has convinced me enough that there is a huge threat out there.
 
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Tagrineth said:
The plane was moving at 250 MPH, most cameras wouldn't be able to capture the plane at that speed very well.

Also, the plane will look stretched out and flattened at that speed.


When an object exceeds 210 MPH (an estimate), it is too fast to be taken on camera frame by frame. So when you see seperate frames, it is more of a blur, than a plane. However, you can easily distinguish that it is a plane.
 
Trippyhippy said:
I base my opinion on my own experiences, just like everyone else. There was a post earlier in this thread with a list of conspiricies that turned out to be true. I have experienced my government lying. Many times. Granted they tell the truth about little stuff every day. But that is what your supposed to do.




I can buy that. Sure, you can have an opinion but it holds very little wieght because you have nothing to base your opinion on. You haven't seen the movie and you said all you've heard about it, you've forgotten. What do you base your opinion on and why do you feel so strongly about it?




He used factual information. At times he made suggestive comments in about the clips in the movie. He was a smart ass about it tho. Anyone that didn't agree with his opinion before the movie, damn sure won't after it. He was smug about it. Smelling your own farts style smug. The same reason Democrats don't like GWB as a person.

i base my opinion on the fact that he can never back up the stuff he is confronted with during interviews on tv. i cant count how many times hes been interviewed and has been shown up by the interviewer. well, not necessarily shown up, but the interviewer asked a question, and moore gave a response that wouldnt hold air if it were to be analyzed enough.
one of the particular things that he would always bring up was GWB playing golf soon after the 9/11 attack. its his OPINION that he should be in the office doing something instead of playing golf. but think about it for a second and you could easily see that moore is just pointing out little piddly shit to make bush look bad.
people have activities they use to help themselves think. just because of an attack like 9/11, it doesnt mean that life ceases to exist. he doesnt have to be in an office to make a decision. yada yada yada, i could go on for a while on just that topic that moore always uses. thats just one subject. ill rent the movie tomorrow and pick it apart again. moore is just a straight up moron that doesnt like the result of the election and he uses his public voice to state his OPINIONS
 
masterorion said:
i base my opinion on the fact that he can never back up the stuff he is confronted with during interviews on tv. i cant count how many times hes been interviewed and has been shown up by the interviewer. well, not necessarily shown up, but the interviewer asked a question, and moore gave a response that wouldnt hold air if it were to be analyzed enough.
one of the particular things that he would always bring up was GWB playing golf soon after the 9/11 attack. its his OPINION that he should be in the office doing something instead of playing golf. but think about it for a second and you could easily see that moore is just pointing out little piddly shit to make bush look bad.

You say things without giving good examples. I can accept that as your opinion, but I want you to tell me why.

As for the reason you did give...

people have activities they use to help themselves think. just because of an attack like 9/11, it doesnt mean that life ceases to exist. he doesnt have to be in an office to make a decision. yada yada yada, i could go on for a while on just that topic that moore always uses. thats just one subject.

Personally... I use such actvites to help me not think about other things in my life. Smoking pot, Video Games, etc. The clip of W playin golf that was in F9/11 makes me think the president does the same thing. He stumbles over a question about 9/11 that he was not focused on then says something about "now watch this drive" and smiles real big. But that is indeed just one subject, and a minor one at that.

ill rent the movie tomorrow and pick it apart again.

I eagerly await the discussion.

just a straight up moron that doesnt like the result of the election and he uses his public voice to state his OPINIONS

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that whole moron bit. It takes a good bit of intelligence and knowhow to win an oscar (wether you think he deserved it or not is irrelivant, he won it.) What I would say about him is that he obnoxious, smug, patronizing, and self-serving.

Anyone and everyone that had a camera pointed at them within a year after the election told us all what they thought. From brittney Spears to richard gear, they all used their public voice to state their opinion. But then again, I see no reason not to. The people with the money are the ones who have the most interaction with the government.

Furthermore, he does use many facts to back up (not prove) his opinion. There is just as much factual information in the movie as there is opinionative partisan dribble.

The fact that he had enough info to make the movie at all speaks volumes to me and makes me feel ashamed of our government.
 
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