**9/11 Wtf really happened??**

Firestreak said:
Right, brings up all the information that's out there, no matter how unreliable the source and if it's been retracted or not. Then you guys mine it for whatever data you can find to justify the position you've already taken. The only thing that is even possible is that the government "let it happen" when they could have moved to stop it, but to be honest, you really have to be an asshole to believe that.
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Well apparently anyone that knows the truth is an asshole. It has been proven whether you decide to accept it or not. It has been on mainstream news a number of times. Quit being so willingly ignorant and actually do some research outside of Maddox who must be a physics genius trained by guru sages at PM and knew everything about everything that happened on 9/11 because he was a witness of everything.

Firestreak said:
And by the way, there HAS been a commisson by experts into the truth behind the attacks. It's was called the 9/11 commission. Their major criticism was "failure of imagination" in that if Clinton and Bush had done a better job thinking up how the attacks could have happened then they could have possibly stopped them.
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You didn't read my last post well enough and this part of the post proves your ignorance on the matter.

- The lead commisioner, Philip Zelikow, was in the NSC in Bush Sr.'s administration. He's a friend of Condi Rice, and he has many connections to the current administration. He was one of the only two allowed to have access to all of the documents during the investigation. He also had the final say on what went into the commision report.

- Only two of the commisioners were allowed access to all of the documents.

- There were many many testimonys that were completely ignored.

- People wern't put under oath.

- The president and vice president agreed to tesitfy only if they could do it together, it was private, and they would not be put under oath. Whenever someone questioned the president on this matter he avoided the answer. Permission for this was granted and he refused to speak about what happened to the press after the testimony.

- There many many many ommisions and distortions in the book. It said they didn't know who funded 9/11 and that it wasn't important when the media had some leads.

- It mentioned almost nothing about WTC7.

- It denies the existence of the 47~ core columns, claiming the towers' cores were "hollow steel shaft:"

The list goes on and on. Overall the book was just a part of the cover-up.

I now understand, more than ever, your extremely limited lack of knowledge on the subject and will stop from argueing with you any longer until you actually do some real research.

I'm sorry, but if someone can look at the collapse of WTC7 and not think it's strange then I don't want to try to have an intelligent conversation or debate about 9/11 with them.

That's all for me. If anyone is truely interested in actually using their brain and needs decent resources relating to 9/11 then send me a message.
 
I have done real research, and that involves reading reports of real scientists. By that I mean REPORTS, not misquotations used to justify your theories as scientific through the use of quote mining. Of course most of what I bring up at some point involves trusting some academic or government source. You can either trust what they say as true, or add more people into the conspiracy and accept that the more people you had the exponentially less likely it is to be true.

Then when I bring up people with the same qualifications as your guy's main proponent's... you bring up the only valid argument. They're no more qualified than your guys... who are as stupid as you are.
 
Honestly, no one gives two shits about 9/11 or the people that died. Within a week, everywhere but NY and DC it was business as usual, and by now on 9/11 I get annoyed by the moment of silence before a football game.

PS Busta, one of your sources talks about how bin laden asking to pray for the hijackers as part of their evidence showing that it was well known. While another one of your sources claims there were no hijackers onboard at all.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they can be conjured up by anyone at any time, and all it takes is a video or document to not be released to "prove" that their theory is right.
 
Since I'll assume you're all liberals, by the way, I'd like to post this little gem that is so hilarious yet true.

"I have two basic gripes with the 9/11 Truth movement. The first is that it gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes. In fact, if there were any conspiracy here, I'd be far more inclined to believe that this whole movement was cooked up by Karl Rove as a kind of mass cyber-provocation, along the lines of Gordon Liddy hiring hippie peace protesters to piss in the lobbies of hotels where campaign reporters were staying."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic..._the_hopeless_stupidity_of_911_conspiracies/1

Actually if you read the whole article, it pretty much sums up my opinion on this whole topic pretty well.
 
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Firestreak said:
Actually if you read the whole article, it pretty much sums up my opinion on this whole topic pretty well.
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Exactly the point I was making. I don't even think it matters if one of the theories is correct when you have 20 other theories stepping on each other to be seen as the right one all of them can be debunked by pulling a different theory out and showing their "proof"
 
meeze said:
Honestly, no one gives two shits about 9/11 or the people that died. Within a week, everywhere but NY and DC it was business as usual, and by now on 9/11 I get annoyed by the moment of silence before a football game.
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Most of the time I can agree with you Meeze, but this time I cant do it. I am a native to New York City and was there. I watched for further up the island as the towers fell. I lost over 40 friends that day, my neighborhood fire company was completely wiped out except for one guy. I volunteered my time, along with thousands of other people, some from the far corners of the country who came in just to help. I donated blood, helped those who needed it, and even volunteered to clean up rubble. I saw my share of bodies in the rubble as the area became slowly uncovered. Still to this day, people remember 9-11. People do care. If you get pissed over a moment of silence, then I would have to say it might just be you that doesnt care.
 
This is how I feel. Was it the government? I don't know. Was it Bin Laden? I don't know. I wasn't there for any of it, and I know any research I can do may never lead me to the truth. I know it is hard to find anyone, even an "expert" who is not biased in all of this, or in it for personal gain. Could the government pull this off? Yes, if they wanted to. Could the terrorist pull this off? Yes, with VERY careful planning. Do I think those buildings fell just because of those planes? No, I think something else was involved. Do I think the government is not telling us what because they did it? Not necessarily. I believe if they didn't do it, the only reason they would have to cover it up is so that there would be less panic than there would be if people knew that not only did the terrorist hijack planes, but they were also allowed to enter a building with thousands of people to carefully plant explosives. From what I can see from the buildings falling, is that they were imploded and they didn’t just carelessly fall. Even if the supports had weakened, I believe the only part of the buildings to fall would be the top parts, and I believe that they would have toppled rather than what happened. Even if they had collapsed the buildings, I don't think it would be so nice and neat when they fell. I also personally don't think that both buildings would have come down, and not that close together either. Now, I am no expert myself, so what do I know. I am only going based on what I logically feel would have happened. I am not a part of the government, so I can not say that it was them. I am also not a part of the terrorist group, so I can not say it was even them either. For all we know, it may have been some other group of terrorist and not the ones we believe it to be. Meh....
 
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I think these conspiracy theories are bogus. I have read up on the facts many times over, have talked to many college professors ranging from chemists to engineers to physicists, and all have agreed that it was not just possible, but highly probable that under those situations, steel will break and buildings will fall.
 
Lanien said:
Most of the time I can agree with you Meeze, but this time I cant do it. I am a native to New York City and was there. I watched for further up the island as the towers fell. I lost over 40 friends that day, my neighborhood fire company was completely wiped out except for one guy. I volunteered my time, along with thousands of other people, some from the far corners of the country who came in just to help. I donated blood, helped those who needed it, and even volunteered to clean up rubble. I saw my share of bodies in the rubble as the area became slowly uncovered. Still to this day, people remember 9-11. People do care. If you get pissed over a moment of silence, then I would have to say it might just be you that doesnt care.
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I know people from NY or DC may still be affected, but in reality, the rest of the country went back to normal fairly fast. It's far from just me, people didn't even stand or be quiet during the moment of silence on the opener in oakland.

Nationwide, no one cares.

Edit: Proof no one cares. Why is no one asking for bin ladens head? Why for the last 3.5 years have we been in Iraq and no one cares why we aren't in afghanistan? Not even the government cares, I doubt some guy in illinois smoking a ciggarette while on break from busting his ass in the fields gives a shit.
 
meeze said:
Edit: Proof no one cares. Why is no one asking for bin ladens head?
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There is still a reward on his head, dead or alive.

Why for the last 3.5 years have we been in Iraq and no one cares why we aren't in afghanistan?
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We are still there. My cousin is stationed over there right now. Dunno how many soldiers we have over there in Afghanistan alone, but it is not as needed as Iraq, since there is far less violence in Afghanistan than in Iraq.
 
meeze said:
I know people from NY or DC may still be affected, but in reality, the rest of the country went back to normal fairly fast. It's far from just me, people didn't even stand or be quiet during the moment of silence on the opener in oakland.

Nationwide, no one cares.

Edit: Proof no one cares. Why is no one asking for bin ladens head? Why for the last 3.5 years have we been in Iraq and no one cares why we aren't in afghanistan? Not even the government cares, I doubt some guy in illinois smoking a ciggarette while on break from busting his ass in the fields gives a shit.
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Nationwide, yeah you may be right. But saying 'no one' is a generalization I don't like. At a Raiders game, yeah it is probably weird. Here in NY, it still stings deep.
 
Lanien said:
Nationwide, yeah you may be right. But saying 'no one' is a generalization I don't like. At a Raiders game, yeah it is probably weird. Here in NY, it still stings deep.
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Off of CT's coast on the Sound people said you could see the smoke. I know I was affected, my family lost friends in that. And we live in plain ol' CT. I know people out in California that lost family there too, and are affected by it.

So I agree with Lanien's statement of 'no one' being a false generalization.
 
I appreciate everyones personal feedback and opinions. I posted this thread as a means to open minds and shed some light on certain things that I saw in that documentation. Like I said.. I rejected any thought of conspiracy before watching that documentation, but after.. it just boggled my mind trmendously. Even if the film is faked, the overwhelming evidence, and Live news broadcasting, interviews, and live footage of the places would take a fukin computer genius to script.

Anyone is respected for standing strong next to your opinions, because this is what our free country is all about.. decisions, and choices. Weither or not the government did it or not, it happened.. and for years now hasnt been proven to a nation-wide revolt and actions.. only things we can look forward too is our friends, family, homies, across seas still, with no intentions of coming home anytime soon, to know (weither right or wrong), they still did it for us.

My opinion still stands with the evidence in the documents, but those are my opinions alone. If it didnt happen, then everything in the past years we've went thru are the right reasons, with the sacrafices made.. If it did happen.. then I hope the path we took wont come back like bad karma..
 
Watchyourstep said:
I appreciate everyones personal feedback and opinions. I posted this thread as a means to open minds and shed some light on certain things that I saw in that documentation. Like I said.. I rejected any thought of conspiracy before watching that documentation, but after.. it just boggled my mind trmendously. Even if the film is faked, the overwhelming evidence, and Live news broadcasting, interviews, and live footage of the places would take a fukin computer genius to script.

Anyone is respected for standing strong next to your opinions, because this is what our free country is all about.. decisions, and choices. Weither or not the government did it or not, it happened.. and for years now hasnt been proven to a nation-wide revolt and actions.. only things we can look forward too is our friends, family, homies, across seas still, with no intentions of coming home anytime soon, to know (weither right or wrong), they still did it for us.

My opinion still stands with the evidence in the documents, but those are my opinions alone. If it didnt happen, then everything in the past years we've went thru are the right reasons, with the sacrafices made.. If it did happen.. then I hope the path we took wont come back like bad karma..
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I think anything that gives doubt should be questioned and looked into. Even if evidance may point the other way. Instead most people like to follow the hurd. People used to laugh at those who said the earth was round. Or the earth wasnt the center of the universe. Anything unexplainable was concidered witchcraft and people burned at the stake.

And let me ask you all this. Lets say somewhere down the road it comes to light that the conspiracy theories might actually be true. Then what? How would you even tell the american people this? It wouldnt be with all the troops overseas, thats for sure. We would need them here to control the mass roiting and chaos that would come from it.
 
I have seen pictures released by the government a couple months ago of the plane inside the pentagon. They are extremely graphic and even show a couple of picutres of the people whos bodys surivived the crash, even though that was hardly, they are all charred. You didnt lose anyone therefore why should you care if you spread a bunch of bullshit. People DID die, innocent people on those airplanes. How dare you pretend they didnt exist. Just because your a left wing nutjob who would rather beleive that the Bush admin is responsible for everything then maybe we really did get attacked doesnt mean you can disrespect those people who actually died. Grow up and get your head out of your asses. The government did NOT cause 9/11. Stop using stupid crappy movies to back your facts up. Just drop it. Your WRONG.
 
I ike your example about the world being flat versus round. Unfortunately I can use it against you. I don't believe that the official story is true because it's what everyone else believes. Rather, I believe the official story is true because I believe in science which is a systematical way of determining if something is true or not. Common sense dictates that the earth is flat, just like common sense instead of science dictates many of the erroneous statements about physics included in the video. This video was made by a flat-worlder, unable to expand his mind to see real truth which is taken by reason not emotion. Flat worlders believe it, following a different herd, people trying to believe something so they can feel that they are smarter than the rest of the population with their "common sense." Unfortunately, the tactics that conspiracy theorists use to advance their theories are to comb through massive amounts of data and intentionally manipulate what they can to express what they don't mean, and it's really rather sick how you people eat it up.

If you're such free thinkers, why is your movement comprised entirely of people who manipulate data which you then all swallow down, believe and pass onto others when you don't even check the context to see if it's saying what you want it to? The real sheeps are you, willing to swallow any bullshit some asshole over the internet wants to shovel down your throat. Anything to demonize people who you politically don't agree with. Anything to take justification away from a war you don't like.
 
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