A memo to QCDN...

[Mishaela]

This is just a small vent...not a flame, but merely my outlook on what I've discovered in the game. I may have a run-on sentance or two or bring up a point or two twice, and if I did I'm sorry, but everyone should know the way I talk by now...


...I've never been a huge fan of endgame, nor any of those special, "social" LSes...but recently, I've decided to give all three more of a chance, thinking maybe I'm just being paranoid and that endgame might be, well, fun.

So, so so so wrong.

All I've found, in the end, is that most endgame LSes are selfish, even to the extent of walking on their own "outsider" members just to get what they want, and it makes me sad. I'd really hoped that the people on the server would have more pride than to go and blame one person in their group for an error, or make demands that a person simply cannot take; Very very few people would be able to play to their full potential when they have a relative in the hospital. Very few people will show up for an event on Christmas or their national Thanksgiving. Thats how it is. There shouldn't even needto be an excuse mentioned as to why they missed these events, and yet in a few social LSes I've seen questions like that asked.

Even worse, I've seen the "outsiders" of an LS get blame pinned on them, simply because they're not part of their "in crowd". In an older Sky shell of mine, I've seen people get kicked just because a leader "disliked them", no reason need be given according to them. The person wasn't a hinderence nor a menace to the LS, he was simply kicked because one of the leaders had some problem with him.

I hate to say it...but our server really does suck. I know other servers have the same problems, but ours is to the extent that many LSes don't care if they use hacks, and many don't care who they walk on, even if it's their own members if it simply means getting ahead. I myself have been blamed for things that I'd hoped the group would've known to be a lie, but they managed to convince themselves that was what happened (The Hakutaku incident comes to mind, but theres a much more recent one I'd rather not discuss...)


My point in this thread...is that it simply makes me sad that so many people here come off as such good people, but ingame, more than half just seem to be backstabbers. It's fine if you wanna try to be the best, and I'm sure you'd like to see friends succeed too, but just remember that there's people that aren't your friends that may have a similar goal. If you work together in a group, the rules should be equal. I've seen enough times where person (a) gets blamed for not sleeping a mob but person (b) gets off scot-free, even if it's the case where person (a) simply got resisted and person (b) didn't even try. People in linkshells shouldn't get special rights over others, and ones not in some "inner group" in the LS shouldn't get scapegoat duties. This defeats the porpose of team effort in absolute.


If some social/endgame LS has a more inner-circle, rules shouldn't differ solely because of that. Punishments, rewards, priority, none of that should matter based on "who's cool" and who's not. It should matter on who contributes most. To the leaders who run social and endgame and social LSes: just because some people are your friends doesn't mean they're better than people who aren't; If you go giving special rights to people who are solely your friends, you're gonna suddenly have alot more friends just for that reason.

It really is just depressing that so many people think that they're that much better than others based on meager things like friendship...we were all born screaming, we all eat, sleep, get sick, and we'll all eventually die. So what if you got better gear, so what if you play the game better? You think you deserve more rights? It's a game. The gear is digital, the people are not. Try to remember that...


That's all. If this breaks some rule, feel free to close it. And to anyone wondering, this has nothing to do with the LSes I have listed below me: those are the ones I'm actually proud to be in.

 

[Mirewen]

Sorry you've had bad experiences. I have too with previous end game shells. I was lucky enough to find an awesome god shell and HNM shell. Good luck with the ones you have now, the people I know in them are great ^.^

 

[Sculli]

I hate to say it...but our server really does suck. I know other servers have the same problems, but ours is to the extent that many LSes don't care if they use hacks, and many don't care who they walk on, even if it's their own members if it simply means getting ahead.

I think this is a bit of the "the grass is always greener over the septic tank" sort of thing. I am 99.99% positive that every server has to deal with the same issues, it's just that since most Quetz players are not embedded in the end-game on other severs, only the good news from other servers may be taken into account.

Personally my explanation of the behaviour you are describing is what I call the "console generation". Many people who play FFXI did not play another MMO before, and may not even have had any multiplayer experience with people they don't know at all.

The cause for the problems you described is a lack of "human relations" knowledge. People just don't know how to interact with each other in a virtual envronment in such a way that it's a win-win for all. In addition, there are enough "suckers" around a virtual world, that those who lack people skills can still build an army out of the neverending supply of recruits and get things done at the expense of member turnover.

I don't have a good solution other than find like-minded people and hang with them. Easier said than done, I am sure.

 

[Negorissimo]

Guess what? You are right!

I blame it on the fact that there are so many immature people playing. Children are not meant to have managing positions.

Plus, WHMs will always be the point of blaming in Hakutaku Events. People get enraged quickly by the fact that they just lost a 1million+ item.

 

[Lavi]

Personally my explanation of the behaviour you are describing is what I call the "console generation". Many people who play FFXI did not play another MMO before, and may not even have had any multiplayer experience with people they don't know at all.

I disagree greatly with that assesment. I joined the game around Christmas just after NA release and have never played another MMO before or after for that matter. I consider myself very helpful with friends and I am always willing to return a favor, but that has nothing to do with the medium on which I play. There is a certain mentality that comes from PS2 and XBox 360 players, but for the most part, that mentality is amalgamated with the rest of the server after a couple of months. When PS2 was released, you heard the same problems as we are now hearing about the 360 players.

The real problem comes from the way people are naturally and some are just greedy. Some believe that the effort needed to obtain an item is all that is needed to pay for the item. For instance, Stupidguy joins Endgameshellx and works at getting an osode. Once he obtains his osode, he has worked for the shell long enough and doesn't needed to work any more to help others obtain their gear. One could argue that if he didn't deserve it, he wouldn't have been given it, but that isn't completely true. In order to completely repay the shell, he would need to help everyone within the shell gain the gear they deserved and not just the effort to obtain the osode and everything prior to that. Yes, it is a lot of work to repay that gift, but you agreed to it once you joined the shell.

 

[Zoolander]

I have no idea what end game shell or social shells you've been in, but obviously you have found the wrong group of people. I've never been apart of somone getting booted for somthing as retarded as that and I've been in end game well over a year. This board always seems to be covered with blanket statements like your post though. It has nothing to do with our server, it has to do with human nature. Some people are immature. Some are ass holes. Some try to lead when they cannot. Maybe stop letting yourself take that kind of abuse more than once. This is why points systems own all. If you are talking about not getting into main alliance or somthing, well I dont see how a new person can expect to be put in right away, especially if its an established shell.

 

[Alyada]

You could always... not participate in End-Game.

Still plenty to do in the game without having the most expensive gear.

 

[Kotsu]

we were all born screaming

Just to be difficult, I'd like to point out that I was born dead and was recessitated back to this hell we call a world. Otherwise, I'm not involved in endgame or anything like that. What I roll with is "If I can do it with my friends, then I'll do it." That's the path I'm taking, and so far it's going well.

 

[GhostinmyShell]

You said it yourself, this is your first MMO. This is not a quez problem, this is a problem on any server, and on any game. Unfortunately the FFXI community lacks fair loot rules and the ingame LS system is a fucking joke so you are more likely to run into the problems that you do.

Just find a group of people you are happy with...

 

[Mishaela]

You said it yourself, this is your first MMO. This is not a quez problem, this is a problem on any server, and on any game. Unfortunately the FFXI community lacks fair loot rules and the ingame LS system is a fucking joke so you are more likely to run into the problems that you do.

Just find a group of people you are happy with...

If I may say, Lavi said this was her first MMO, not me...I've played Diablo II, DragonRealms and Ragnarok Online all before this one. =P

And no, I can't prove that this is the only server with this problem, but I can say this is one of few servers I've not heard to have ever had groups join together to fight Vrtra, or a successful job-exclusive shell, simply because far too many are out for themselves.

And Aly...yes, there is the choice to not do endgame. However, that's not a choice I've taken. Right now I'm doing Sky primarily for fun, and none of the items there are even of strong interest to me. Dynamis, I've tried my best to be dedicated, and I wish to continue to. And as I've said, I have no problems with my current Dynamis and Sky linkshells...

 

[Tagrineth]

Diablo II isn't an MMO. ; ;

 

[Nasya]

but ours is to the extent that many LSes don't care if they use hacks, and many don't care who they walk on, even if it's their own members if it simply means getting ahead.

Um, this is the only major point i would like to differ with... while 1 LS on this server that is known of may not care that their members use hacks (and they are not even participating in endgame atm), there are a number of LSs on other servers REQUIRE that their members use hacks. all of the other problems are not unique to this server... the only issue that this server has, i think, is a lack of trust of other groups, but there is a history that goes with that...

as many others have said, i do not know what LS you were in, and even if i did i've never been a member of it so i cannot comment... however, every LS is different, the issues they have are different... and i'm sure that if you wanted to find an endgame shell that you were compatible with you could...

 

[neophytal]

I have no idea what end game shell or social shells you've been in, but obviously you have found the wrong group of people. I've never been apart of somone getting booted for somthing as retarded as that and I've been in end game well over a year. This board always seems to be covered with blanket statements like your post though. It has nothing to do with our server, it has to do with human nature. Some people are immature. Some are ass holes. Some try to lead when they cannot. Maybe stop letting yourself take that kind of abuse more than once. This is why points systems own all. If you are talking about not getting into main alliance or somthing, well I dont see how a new person can expect to be put in right away, especially if its an established shell.

pretty much what i was gonna say anyways

 

[Peregrine]

Hating inner circles of cliques is one thing. Riding leads for kicking people they have problems with is another. If someone has a problem with a lead they have a choice. If the lead has a problem with someone, they have a duty. Endgame quetza fails because people think they have a right to be annoying, divisive, and petty so long as they don't physically screw up. The standard is higher than that, because people that leads have a problem with bring their shell down whether they perform well or not. Performance is the bare minimum requirement, but if someone's head's not right as judged by the lead, there is no reason the lead shouldn't kick them.

The XXX who just got xarc peice and needs only beau, and fills the /lschat with "man Xarc again? we need to go to beau" every time i set the destination for the following week and they see it is two steps from being on my bad side. Sorry, it's annoying, and they owe me more than to whine about not going to get theirs every week. They don't have to screw up. All they have to be is poor sports, stereotypical job primadonnas, or jerks. Kicking people based on difference of mentality or a lacking of mentality is a reaction to the failed business model that Quetza thought was the way to go. I operate under the idea that this is a horrible employee pool that would universally fail employment standards, and I guess it should since it's just a game. So I'm just looking for decent people.

It sounds like a step down when really it's a step up. Qualifications are nothing. Mentality is everything. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Hating inner circles of cliques is one thing. Riding leads for kicking people they have problems with is another. If someone has a problem with a lead they have a choice. If the lead has a problem with someone, they have a duty. Endgame quetza fails because people think they have a right to be annoying, divisive, and petty so long as they don't physically screw up. The standard is higher than that, because people that leads have a problem with bring their shell down whether they perform well or not. Performance is the bare minimum requirement, but if someone's head's not right as judged by the lead, there is no reason the lead shouldn't kick them.

The XXX who just got xarc peice and needs only beau, and fills the /lschat with "man Xarc again? we need to go to beau" every time i set the destination for the following week and they see it is two steps from being on my bad side. Sorry, it's annoying, and they owe me more than to whine about not going to get theirs every week. They don't have to screw up. All they have to be is poor sports, stereotypical job primadonnas, or jerks. Kicking people based on difference of mentality or a lacking of mentality is a reaction to the failed business model that Quetza thought was the way to go. I operate under the idea that this is a horrible employee pool that would universally fail employment standards, and I guess it should since it's just a game. So I'm just looking for decent people.

It sounds like a step down when really it's a step up. Qualifications are nothing. Mentality is everything. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

There-in lies the problems of most LS's and most groups on this server. Every thinks every owes them something. ( not flaming you Pere, I'm sure you meant it in a different context). Sure you are the "leader" of said shell. That's all good an nice. But unless you go out there and solo everything for them they owe you nothing. Some people will say they are owed because they 'planned' a run. Let's take Dynamis-Xarca for example. Leaderguy thinks his shell owes him because he "planned" the run. When in fact all he did was go on-line and search for maps and such. He read what others hae done before and followed through. This is not actually planning. It's copying what another person/group did. Unless you took the time alone to go into the Dynamis-Xarca zone, plot the parts you see best fitting, see where you want who positioned where. (actually you really dont have to go into the Dynamis zone for the plotting and positioning.) Then you need to test the mosters in the area so you can keep your team well updated and ready for this job/type of monster. No offense to any Dynamis or HNM or sky LS leader who 'planned' their events, but in reality of it all you didn't actuallly 'plan' anything. (Unless ofcourse you took the course of action that I said.) You go online read what others have done. You choose which way you like. At most the only thing you really did yourself would be to take the next step foward, start where others have failed and make it successful.

Too many people feel that everyone owes them just because they said so. And with these 'inner circles' that Ishy is talking about the leaders feel that the shell owes the inner circle. In most cases where you see people in leadership postions who think the shell they take care of owes them something is where you find most of the mistakes and errors.

Noones owes you anymore or anyless then you owe them in a linkshell. It's a 2-way street and if you leave that street then you are just basically telling everyone esle "hey, i got what i wanted, if i need anything else i'll try and use everyone of you again later."

 

[Mishaela]

The XXX who just got xarc peice and needs only beau, and fills the /lschat with "man Xarc again? we need to go to beau" every time i set the destination for the following week and they see it is two steps from being on my bad side. Sorry, it's annoying, and they owe me more than to whine about not going to get theirs every week. They don't have to screw up. All they have to be is poor sports, stereotypical job primadonnas, or jerks. Kicking people based on difference of mentality or a lacking of mentality is a reaction to the failed business model that Quetza thought was the way to go. I operate under the idea that this is a horrible employee pool that would universally fail employment standards, and I guess it should since it's just a game. So I'm just looking for decent people.

It sounds like a step down when really it's a step up. Qualifications are nothing. Mentality is everything. If you don't have that, you have nothing.

While I do agree with that, your examples had a just cause - the person could have a poor attitude or generally be ruining the experience for other players. The case I found in my older sky shell, however, one of the leaders booted the person simply because he (the leader) disliked him, and refused to go into detail beyond that. I just find it deplorable that some groups would/do act in this fashion. If someone did something that bugged a leader so much that he hadto go and boot the person, wouldn't at least saying what bugged them be reasonable?


I don't even agree with booting someone for such a petty reason, but I guess that'd also depend on how negative the person is...