A Message to Keits.

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/sigh

Way too much to reply to right now.

Syn ~ "You cant just force others to play it your way"
"Your way of teaching is wrong, do it my way"

I hope you all caught that too.

Trying to change the way I choose to speak on these forums, based on how you want me to speak, is just as 'bad' as me trying to change the way other players play, based on how I play.

Nearly all of my non-flameboard posts are nice explanations. You have villarel bashing people with sarcastic remarks, and me explaining (in detail) why things do and do not work.

The reply is nearly always the same. "Have you played ???/??? to level 60? Then you know nothing."

I dont make very many posts outside of the flame forum. Its hard to, because a lot of the players who post here are the types I would never group with. They shun advice, and think they can break mathematical rules within the game with special 'unique' job combos. They can never backup any of their arguement, either.

If it isnt evident already, I come here for the flame forum. This is the one place where I shouldnt have to get shit for telling people off. But I do. And thats fine, if you want to use the flame forum to flame (or criticize) me, thats great. But its really hard to take these 'criticisms' to heart when I already act as nicely as I can 95% of the time. (the other 5% is the time I spend here, which is probably too much). The 4 or 5 lowbies that I've ever met who actually took advice from me, rather than spitting out strings of cuss words, found homes in my linkshell.

So, I suppose its fair to judge how I will act on this forum, based on how I have acted here... but this does not carry over in game.

I want a good play environment.
I want a stronger player comunity.
I want to be able to join a pickup group, at any level, and not need a high level WHM near by to protect me from my own party.

And my aproch is always to offer advice, backed with facts.

You dont have to follow the advice. Just say "Thanks for the input" and ignore it if you want.

But get out there... take a rank5/6 character into dunes or qufim to xp. Offer some advice. 4 out of 5 times, you get "F U I know how to play."

Its really difficult not to reply "Of course you know what you are doing. You are a WAR tanking with a Polearm."
 
People as a whole are NOT accepting. I can demonstrate that by most of my experience in my whole life. I have not found, one person, that is like me that is female ever. Don't tell me people are accepting until you're actually one that is different, completely different from the whole pack. If you want more details send me a pm I guess. I'm not like anyone I know, and I have only ever been accepted by men.
 
naffenu said:
People as a whole are NOT accepting. I can demonstrate that by most of my experience in my whole life. I have not found, one person, that is like me that is female ever. Don't tell me people are accepting until you're actually one that is different, completely different from the whole pack. If you want more details send me a pm I guess. I'm not like anyone I know, and I have only ever been accepted by men.
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I Love you, kitten :)
 
naffenu said:
People as a whole are NOT accepting. I can demonstrate that by most of my experience in my whole life. I have not found, one person, that is like me that is female ever. Don't tell me people are accepting until you're actually one that is different, completely different from the whole pack. If you want more details send me a pm I guess. I'm not like anyone I know, and I have only ever been accepted by men.
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Anesly's rule #1: People are stupid.

I don't know who was arguing for people being accepting, but yeah, people can be incredibly cruel. I've done it too--though I try to not be cruel. *shrug*

I'm female too. I don't really have other female friends, and this has been true my whole life. I don't think it really matters--I don't care what gender my friends are. I haven't really met any other females that are like me, either.This might also be the case with other people on the board. You're just assuming that because people come to a different conclusion that you did ("Don't tell me people are accepting"), they couldn't have possibly had the same type of experiences that you have ("until you're actually one that is different, completely different from the whole pack").

As to dealing with people are cruel to you or put you down or whatever: I choose to not associate with such people. Sure, I can't just avoid everyone I don't like, but beyond what's absolutely needed, I just stay away from them. So I may have to deal with people who are assholes at work, but I limit it to the barest professional contact.
 
Keits said:
Nearly all of my non-flameboard posts are nice explanations. You have villarel bashing people with sarcastic remarks, and me explaining (in detail) why things do and do not work.
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I went back and reread some of your non-flameboard posts and you're right, most of them are nice. :oops: I think the flame posts stick out in most of our minds because of the high-flameyness of them =P
 
Its not so easy to preach avoidance in game. It pisses the carebears off.

Ex. ~~~ Keits gets party invite.
Keits joins party.
Keits sees the name of a player he wishes to avoid in the party.
Keits gracefully bows out of the party.
Party members, usually rallied by the person being avoided, become angry with Keits.

Being that is a flame forum, I prefer confrontation. Lets trade words, it might be fun! But in game, avoidance can come back at you.

If any of you want to hear the 'Seppeku' story, just ask. This was a rare instance in which I gave a guy a 2nd chance, and he attempted to get me killed.

I dont even really know what point im trying to make anymore.

People arnt accepting, of eachother or advice.
I am not 'teh evilz omgroofle', I just use the flameboard for what I thought it was intended.
 
anesly said:
Keits said:
Nearly all of my non-flameboard posts are nice explanations. You have villarel bashing people with sarcastic remarks, and me explaining (in detail) why things do and do not work.
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I went back and reread some of your non-flameboard posts and you're right, most of them are nice. :oops: I think the flame posts stick out in most of our minds because of the high-flameyness of them =P
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Well thank you for pointing that out, because I think its *very* prevelant to my counter-arguement.

If you ever meet anyone who hates me in game, its because they were acting stupid, and I told them so. Its not because I offered advice that they chose not to take. Its because they were cussing, shouting, and throwing fits at the thought of having put 3 days into FFXI and not knowing everything.
 
Keits said:
Its not so easy to preach avoidance in game. It pisses the carebears off.

Ex. ~~~ Keits gets party invite.
Keits joins party.
Keits sees the name of a player he wishes to avoid in the party.
Keits gracefully bows out of the party.
Party members, usually rallied by the person being avoided, become angry with Keits.
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I hate that >< . I've had it happen to me--I just make liberal use of the blist =P . People don't usually stay there long--if I can't remember why I added someone to it, I take them off. There's only a couple of people who were annoying/incompetent enough to have stayed in my blist for all this time.

Keits said:
Being that is a flame forum, I prefer confrontation. Lets trade words, it might be fun!
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STFU OMG J00 ARE TEH NOOB.
(I fell so dirty :?)

Keits said:
If any of you want to hear the 'Seppeku' story, just ask. This was a rare instance in which I gave a guy a 2nd chance, and he attempted to get me killed.
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The nicest thing I've heard about Seppeku was that "he's a twitchy-as-hell bastard." =P
 
masterorion said:
Mattaru said:
masterorion said:
ut oh, lets get ready for a major over reaction by know it all god of the game
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dude, im not overreacting :p
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mattaru i wasnt talking about you
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oh im sorry i forgot to put in the sarcasm braquets.

^that was sarcasm too
 
Well, this post seems to have reached the End of it's usefulness, Keits, all i wouls like you to do is consider taking a less active Way to Educate the People of this Game. You can't shove Knowledge down People's Throats, because most likely it will be puked out. Wait until someone wants to change. then you can step in and act as the Catalyst. You'll find that Method to be very much more Rewarding :)
 
I have been lvling in Dunes lately and seen one warrior yell at our white mage and black mage to melee. I jumped in and yelled, "White and Black mages should not melee but focus on regenerateing their mana when they need too." The warrior finally went into a detail description about how he was a white mage before and leveled it up and meleed all the time. Anyway personally I did not like that approach a guy giving what seemed to me bad advice. Maybe white and black mages can melee in some cases but I always perfer them not too. I can see where Keits is coming from from that example. I would hate to see a meleeing white mage go all the way to level 75 :roll: Some people that are "noobs" flat out do not want to listen and think they are in the right. In cases you do need to yell at them.

People that are new to the game that act polite and want to learn then deserve to be taught politely. Helps to send them tells and tell them "Hey, I notice you are doing so and so. It might help you to try this etc etc. :)." Try not to act like a know it all and try to congrat. them when they do good. We want the ones that want to learn and do well.

Sarcasam on:
I guess this is where Keits is going too correct me and put an "F" on my post :D
 
You can't shove Knowledge down People's Throats
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I dont. Thats the part thats flying way over your head. The only place I act this way is on the flame forum, or when the response to my friendly suggestions consists of "Fuk" and "U".

You are generalizing my entire behavioral pattern based on messages posted in a forum dedicated to venting and yelling at eachother.

Not only is this judgement unjust, but its flat out stupid. Evidence suggests that in-game and on non-flame forums, I'm a pretty damn nice guy.

Evidence also suggests that you own a Jump-To-Conclusions™ mat.

Keep up the awful work.

-The Keits
 
There is a problem with most a lot of this thread, or rather what this thread has become. There are a lot of comments that read "People are stupid "people suck" "in my experience, people dont listen" and so on and so forth. And then there are concepts like "truth" bandied about. The problem is: Where are you're facts? "People suck?" According to whom? At which time and place? "People are stupid" Yes? I thought people were rather smart. We used to walk around and yet we've devised ways to fly around the whole world. We devised VIDEO GAMES. Video games don't occur naturally.
The problem lies in generalities. "People aren't kind" According to whom? Go to a 3rd world mission and ask the poor who are helped by selfless and giving individuals who isn't kind.
Sterotypes and generalities are very easy. Most people pre-judge. Many people give way to sterotypes. Must we? It is very easy to condemn people. "people suck". Well, you are a person, thus part of "people"... do you suck? Are you "stupid"?
Who honestly and sincerely believes that they scuk and are stupid? Not many.
One of the supposed beauties of this board is that you CAN be sepecific. So be specific. It is fairly invalid to make balnket statements unless you have facts or reasoably supported conjectures.
Saying "people are generally stupid" is a wholly and completely worthless statement. Why? Back it up. Show me facts. Show me studies, experiments, lab ordeals that either prove or indicate strongly that people are generally stupid. I can say X amount of people will vote for Geroge W in the next election pecause I can show you a well executed poll that indicates it. And even THAT isnt the "truth". A poll showing that X amount of voters will do something is still conjecture. Nevertheless, it is at least well supported conjecture.
Saying "people suck" is folk wisdom. Folk wisdom also brought us ideas like "the Earth is flat"
 
Keits said:
Syn ~ "You cant just force others to play it your way"
"Your way of teaching is wrong, do it my way"

I hope you all caught that too.
Click to expand...

Actually, it was quite intentional. A more stuble hint at another axiom. "do unto others." Dunno why, but the topic opened with a bucket of fortune cookies. I just found it rather amusing so I thought I'd play with it a bit.
~Syn
 
Synical said:
Keits said:
Syn ~ "You cant just force others to play it your way"
"Your way of teaching is wrong, do it my way"

I hope you all caught that too.
Click to expand...

Actually, it was quite intentional. A more stuble hint at another axiom. "do unto others." Dunno why, but the topic opened with a bucket of fortune cookies. I just found it rather amusing so I thought I'd play with it a bit.
~Syn
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If that was intentional, then surely, you are forgiven. :)
 
Keits said:
You can't shove Knowledge down People's Throats
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I dont. Thats the part thats flying way over your head. The only place I act this way is on the flame forum, or when the response to my friendly suggestions consists of "Fuk" and "U".

You are generalizing my entire behavioral pattern based on messages posted in a forum dedicated to venting and yelling at eachother.

Not only is this judgement unjust, but its flat out stupid. Evidence suggests that in-game and on non-flame forums, I'm a pretty damn nice guy.

Evidence also suggests that you own a Jump-To-Conclusions™ mat.

Keep up the awful work.

-The Keits
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Well, Keits, at this Point I would like to say that you have just lost alot of your Personal Credibility, at least in my Eyes. You might have noticed me:
a. Not saying any of your Opinions are wrong.
b. Refraining from being Rude to you.
c. Not insulting you on any Level.

Now that YOU have broken the Barrier, i have several things to say to you:

"You are an opinionated Bastard whose Saving Grace is his Competence. You absolutely disregard other Person's opinions, emotions or intellectual Capacity. You choose to ignore facts other present claiming yours are the only correct ones. You present yourself Superior to your fellow Players, and by that I mean all of them, not knowing that your opinion has lost major credibility due to your complete Lack of Tact and your Incapability to Present it without Lashing out at whoever doesn't agree with you. You Parade your Wellfounded Research as Gospel, thus souring it for anyone who chooses to Indulge in your Self Glorification and try to start an Exchange of Ideas, rather than Indoctrination with IDEAS. You are competent in your knowledge, but because you are an opinionated, overly aggresive and plainly unbearable Asswipe with a "holier than thou" Attitude, i would say you are a horrible Player.

In my Opinion, you are an Asshole, that found something they're good at ... which doesn't make you any less of an Asshole."

This is what i have been trying to say, just way more Civil and Polite. YOU removed the Polite Atmosphere from this thread. Your Hostility is PATHETIC, as is your incapability to fight in a Cultured Manner. If you had as much Braincapacity as you have Standard Opinions and Routines, maybe I would consider you a worthy Opponent. But for now I feel that i have the Moral and Ethical Upperhand. I apologize for having to bring this to such an ugly End. I had hoped you had more Fighting Culture. I was sadly dissapointed. You may leave now.
 
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