A Message to Keits.

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But without these things, even traditional FF games would be just generic RPG's.
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I havent read past this line yet... but NO.

Ever play a non-FF game and say "Hey, this feels like Final Fantasy"? That is what you would say if a Traditional FF game didnt say FF on it. You would NEVER play an MMO or Tactics and say "This feels like FF".

Theorist hit the nail on the head.
 
Meh.. there are more rpg's out there than just the Final Fantasy series. When I play an rpg I know i sure dont go "Hey this feels like Final Fantasy." That is just retarded.. unless Final Fantasy has been the only thing you've ever played. Every rpg is more or less the same, granted there are various different stories in each, some have unique combat engines, some are traditional turn based, but behind every rpg are simple core elements.

What are these elements? Well if you've ever played more than .. ill say, 5 rpgs then I don't need to tell you. If you haven't, nothing wrong with that. Try playing a few different ones. You'll realize a lot of things become similar.

I think it's retarded logic to assume because someone slapped Final Fantasy on the title of a game it is somehow going to sell more. Sure.. for Final Fantasy fans, its going to peak an interest just because of that. Secondly, the game better have something to do with Final Fantasy in general or id take it back and get some store credit. Personally I dont go by the franchise, I go by who makes the game and even before that, the game has to look/sound and be appealing to me. I don't care what an rpg's name is or any game's name might be; if it appears to be a good game ill have some interest in playing it.

I didn't get FFXI because its Final Fantasy. I'll admit that being a Final Fantasy game had me interested initially, but then i read up on it, from my findings I knew i was going to like this game before it came out. Final Fantasy or any other name, id play this game anyway. I enjoy it.

As far as im concerned its better than any other mmo out right now, I know some people dont aggree with me, it would be foolish to think otherwise. A roomate of mine is in the World of Warcraft stress test, I dont see anything all that special about that game unless your a Blizzard fanboy. I've also watched him play Star wars Galaxies and Dark Age of Camelot. I've got friends who tested Linage 2, its nothing great either. I wasn't impressed by what I saw.

I do play City of Heroes with my roomates every now and then, but that game's okay. However, I still think FFXI is a better game. Hell, ive been playing it since release. All of my RL friends that bought and played it at the beginning stopped playing around December, me.. im still going strong. I wonder why.. could it be that I like the game still. *gasp* :roll:

Well I've went into a rambling rant, but that's okay this is the flameboard.
So on that note.. fuck all you fuckin fuckers. Yeah.. :twisted:
 
Keits said:
But without these things, even traditional FF games would be just generic RPG's.
Click to expand...

I havent read past this line yet... but NO.

Ever play a non-FF game and say "Hey, this feels like Final Fantasy"? That is what you would say if a Traditional FF game didnt say FF on it. You would NEVER play an MMO or Tactics and say "This feels like FF".

Theorist hit the nail on the head.
Click to expand...

Hehe, actually now you can say that it feels like final fantasy, but you would be referring to tactics or XI. My point, which I can tell Keits missed, was that by using the elements he named he had basically described every rpg out there.

So go back and read the whole post before u get all hot and bothered.... jackass.

-Ham :shock:
 
FlaruWuru said:
I played FFVIII and thought "WTF? Is that really supposed to be a Final Fantasy game?!?"
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shut-up-dollar.jpg


You've earned every penny!

FF8 > you.
 
Please explain to me how the battle system has changed. The core of it is, you stand in a line, or whatever, and hit things. The battle system hasn't changed, since ff1. FFXI IS NOT a ff game. The spells are here, but they could have easily changed those, same with the classes and the modes of transportation. Christ, you guys are retarded. The only reason half of you picked up this game is because it says FF on it. They could have easily changed those things and released the game as SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and none of you would be here today. I think it has also something to do with Sqeenix publishing it. If it's a square game, it's guaranteed that every square fanboy is going to pick this game up.

Half of you say that you didn't like eq for the graphics, but it's the same damn game. You do the same exact things in this game that you do in eq. The only you guys like this game better is because it's ff.

Pretty much to sum up my thoughts, if FFXI is a FF game, Eq is also. Because eq has the exact things in common with ff as any other ff game. According to your logic.
 
naffenu said:
Please explain to me how the battle system has changed. The core of it is, you stand in a line, or whatever, and hit things. The battle system hasn't changed, since ff1.
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I beg to differ.

FF1: Round based. Number of spells per spell level (AD&D concept)
FF2-3: Round based. MPs introduced
FF4-7 and 9: Active Time.
FF8: Active time. Spells must be drawn or cast out of enemies. Spells are stored like items.
FF10: No back row. Turn-based. Hot-switching of party members.

And that's just the battle system's changes over time. As for the "stand in a row and whack stuff", the same can be said of a lot of console RPGs. If you put some criteria to weed out the FFs you don't like, make sure those same criteria don't beg to include titles from other companies into the frey.
 
FlaruWuru said:
naffenu said:
Please explain to me how the battle system has changed. The core of it is, you stand in a line, or whatever, and hit things. The battle system hasn't changed, since ff1.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ.

FF1: Round based. Number of spells per spell level (AD&D concept)
FF2-3: Round based. MPs introduced
FF4-7 and 9: Active Time.
FF8: Active time. Spells must be drawn or cast out of enemies. Spells are stored like items.
FF10: No back row. Turn-based. Hot-switching of party members.

And that's just the battle system's changes over time. As for the "stand in a row and whack stuff", the same can be said of a lot of console RPGs. If you put some criteria to weed out the FFs you don't like, make sure those same criteria don't beg to include titles from other companies into the frey.
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The combat isn't any different. All rpg's are the same. You are just adding fuel to the fire. It's the same battle system, the game just doesn't pause. For god's sake. Do you understand that?

Way to completely ignore my post jackass.
 
naffenu said:
The combat isn't any different. All rpg's are the same. You are just adding fuel to the fire. It's the same battle system, the game just doesn't pause. For god's sake. Do you understand that?
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1. It's a flame board, I wonder why you're surprised.

2. FFXI's a MMORPG. The previous titles are console RPGs. Yah, I did get it. You and Keits have told everyone to ignore elements of the games in order to have that vision of "FFXI isn't a Final Fantasy" fulfilled. Fact is:

- Square DID put in chocobos and airships in FFXI;
- Square DID put a job system in FFXI;
- Square DID include the same spells as always;
- Square DID include moogles and the usual Cid character;
- Square DIDN'T include a Vicks and Wedge in this title;
- Square DID slap the Final Fantasy title on this game to close the deal.

You didn't make the game, SQUARE DID! It's their choice to title games as they wish, and rename a series when they feel like it. Final Fantasy Adventure became the Mana series. Final Fantasy Legend became the Saga series. Mystical Quest is hopefully forgotten and buried.

We can be as revisionist as we want, it doesn't change the fact that Square did slap the brand name on that one, included elements that are part of that brand name, and you don't like it. They could have not slapped that brand name on ANY OTHER FF TITLE IF THEY WANTED TO!

We COULD have had a Final Fantasy 5 : Chrono Trigger, put in chocobos and moogles, but they didn't.

We COULD have had a game called Military Academy Drama, take out the chocobos, but they called it Final Fantasy 8 and included the beasts of burden somehow.

If you're not happy, get on World of Warcraft... Oh wait! THAT'S A TOTAL RIPOFF AS IT ISN'T A REAL-TIME STRATEGY GAME!!! BLIZZARD YOU BASTARDS, HOW DARE YOU SLAP A CLASSIC NAME LIKE WARCRAFT ON A MMORPG!!![/b]
 
naffenu said:
Please explain to me how the battle system has changed. The core of it is, you stand in a line, or whatever, and hit things. The battle system hasn't changed, since ff1. FFXI IS NOT a ff game. The spells are here, but they could have easily changed those, same with the classes and the modes of transportation. Christ, you guys are retarded. The only reason half of you picked up this game is because it says FF on it. They could have easily changed those things and released the game as SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and none of you would be here today. I think it has also something to do with Sqeenix publishing it. If it's a square game, it's guaranteed that every square fanboy is going to pick this game up.

Half of you say that you didn't like eq for the graphics, but it's the same damn game. You do the same exact things in this game that you do in eq. The only you guys like this game better is because it's ff.

Pretty much to sum up my thoughts, if FFXI is a FF game, Eq is also. Because eq has the exact things in common with ff as any other ff game. According to your logic.
Click to expand...

Then what separates games like Xenosaga from other Final Fantasies? You stand in a line, you hit things... it must be a Final Fantasy!

Seriously though, if your criteria for a game being a Final Fantasy is that "you stand in a line and hit things" you are saying that every standard RPG is a final fantasy.

FFF11 may not be a "typical" Final Fantasy game, but from the looks of it 12 isnt going to be either. In that game you are supposedly able to move around the battlefield and such. And as for the other battle systems changing, no the core "stand in a line" hasnt changed; I was referring to magic systems, and things like 10's caracter switching.

Your argument that 11 isnt a final fantasy game is weak though. I have to ask you if there is written criteria out there somewhere defining exactly what a final fantasy game is? By saying it is only a single player RPG and saying that it doesnt matter if it says any of the typical Final Fantasy standbys makes almost any RPG a Final Fantasy. And what makes the typical Final Fantasy different from other RPG's?

As for everyone playing this game for the wrong reason (its a FF square game)... get off it. True, there probably are some asses out there that are total dorks, but I can bet you that they are the ones that dont stick around long because they realize it wasnt the game they were looking for.

But since you have obviously proved that the only criteria that determines if a game is a Final Fantasy is that its a single player RPG where you stand in a line and hit things... I suppose I'll go play Final Fantasy: Xenosaga, or maybe Final Fantasy: Okage...

-Ham :shock:
 
I like this game because I like the people I play it with. I can probably play any game with friends, even like runescape. Okay, runescape is fucking gay. Never mind.

I didn't pick it up cause I was an FF fanboy, I actually haven't liked anything past 8 too much. That's just me, though.

I really don't understand how anyone can say this is a Final Fantasy game, familiar things aside (moogles,jobs, etc) because it's completely different in almost every way. FF is just the sales pitch for the game, that's it. There's kind of a story...I guess...
 
FlaruWuru said:
naffenu said:
The combat isn't any different. All rpg's are the same. You are just adding fuel to the fire. It's the same battle system, the game just doesn't pause. For god's sake. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...

1. It's a flame board, I wonder why you're surprised.

2. FFXI's a MMORPG. The previous titles are console RPGs. Yah, I did get it. You and Keits have told everyone to ignore elements of the games in order to have that vision of "FFXI isn't a Final Fantasy" fulfilled. Fact is:

- Square DID put in chocobos and airships in FFXI;
- Square DID put a job system in FFXI;
- Square DID include the same spells as always;
- Square DID include moogles and the usual Cid character;
- Square DIDN'T include a Vicks and Wedge in this title;
- Square DID slap the Final Fantasy title on this game to close the deal.

You didn't make the game, SQUARE DID! It's their choice to title games as they wish, and rename a series when they feel like it. Final Fantasy Adventure became the Mana series. Final Fantasy Legend became the Saga series. Mystical Quest is hopefully forgotten and buried.

We can be as revisionist as we want, it doesn't change the fact that Square did slap the brand name on that one, included elements that are part of that brand name, and you don't like it. They could have not slapped that brand name on ANY OTHER FF TITLE IF THEY WANTED TO!

We COULD have had a Final Fantasy 5 : Chrono Trigger, put in chocobos and moogles, but they didn't.

We COULD have had a game called Military Academy Drama, take out the chocobos, but they called it Final Fantasy 8 and included the beasts of burden somehow.

If you're not happy, get on World of Warcraft... Oh wait! THAT'S A TOTAL RIPOFF AS IT ISN'T A REAL-TIME STRATEGY GAME!!! BLIZZARD YOU BASTARDS, HOW DARE YOU SLAP A CLASSIC NAME LIKE WARCRAFT ON A MMORPG!!![/b]
Click to expand...

Final fantasy Adventure was the mana series. It didn't become anything, it was just renamed TO SELL THE FUCKING GAME BECAUSE FINAL FANTASY SELLS BETTER THAN SEIKEN DENSETSU/SECRET OF MANA. Same with Final Fantasy Legend, that was the SaGa series.

There are obvious spin-offs of Final Fantasy not bearing the glossy nametag. Check out Chocobo's Dungeon 2 and Chocobo Racing on the PlayStation
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Oh, i'm sorry, I didn't realize chocobo wasn't a well-known name and enough to get some suckers to buy their shitty spin-off game. (Chocobo dungeon is surprisingly fun though) Also, naming it Final Fantasy: Chocobo Racing would just be retarded.

FFXI is not a traditional Final Fantasy game. It is a radically different game in a different genre.

To finish this:

Warcraft sucks. Fuck you.
 
ThisIsHamburgler said:
naffenu said:
Please explain to me how the battle system has changed. The core of it is, you stand in a line, or whatever, and hit things. The battle system hasn't changed, since ff1. FFXI IS NOT a ff game. The spells are here, but they could have easily changed those, same with the classes and the modes of transportation. Christ, you guys are retarded. The only reason half of you picked up this game is because it says FF on it. They could have easily changed those things and released the game as SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and none of you would be here today. I think it has also something to do with Sqeenix publishing it. If it's a square game, it's guaranteed that every square fanboy is going to pick this game up.

Half of you say that you didn't like eq for the graphics, but it's the same damn game. You do the same exact things in this game that you do in eq. The only you guys like this game better is because it's ff.

Pretty much to sum up my thoughts, if FFXI is a FF game, Eq is also. Because eq has the exact things in common with ff as any other ff game. According to your logic.
Click to expand...

Then what separates games like Xenosaga from other Final Fantasies? You stand in a line, you hit things... it must be a Final Fantasy!

Seriously though, if your criteria for a game being a Final Fantasy is that "you stand in a line and hit things" you are saying that every standard RPG is a final fantasy.

FFF11 may not be a "typical" Final Fantasy game, but from the looks of it 12 isnt going to be either. In that game you are supposedly able to move around the battlefield and such. And as for the other battle systems changing, no the core "stand in a line" hasnt changed; I was referring to magic systems, and things like 10's caracter switching.

Your argument that 11 isnt a final fantasy game is weak though. I have to ask you if there is written criteria out there somewhere defining exactly what a final fantasy game is? By saying it is only a single player RPG and saying that it doesnt matter if it says any of the typical Final Fantasy standbys makes almost any RPG a Final Fantasy. And what makes the typical Final Fantasy different from other RPG's?

As for everyone playing this game for the wrong reason (its a FF square game)... get off it. True, there probably are some asses out there that are total dorks, but I can bet you that they are the ones that dont stick around long because they realize it wasnt the game they were looking for.

But since you have obviously proved that the only criteria that determines if a game is a Final Fantasy is that its a single player RPG where you stand in a line and hit things... I suppose I'll go play Final Fantasy: Xenosaga, or maybe Final Fantasy: Okage...

-Ham :shock:
Click to expand...

Then tell me, why did you buy this game. Have you ever played any mmo before? No? Is this your first one? Why did you buy it, because it looked interesting? Because it had chocobos and moogles and ff type spells in an MMO? Probably. There is a defining thing in all RPG's. You stand in goddamn line, and you hit things. That's a given. If you can't understand that, then you are retarded. The only thing DIFFERENT about Final fantasy, is that they have their own spells and little icons (being moogles and chocobo's etc.) I could argue with you about this until I'm blue in the face, but I see you're obviously not going to understand it. This game sells, because it's ff. That's all. Do me a favor, and try out eq, and tell me this game is RADICALLY different from it.
 
I remember finally finding the Airship in FF I think you had to play a flute or something out in the middle of the desert and the ship came outta the sand. I was sooooo damn excited when I got that.

Hmm...can't recall when the chocobo's came around was that part 3? (lotta doobies since that release so I tend to forget)

Oh well my 2 cents,

Mohoso
 
naffenu said:
Then tell me, why did you buy this game. Have you ever played any mmo before? No? Is this your first one? Why did you buy it, because it looked interesting? Because it had chocobos and moogles and ff type spells in an MMO? Probably. There is a defining thing in all RPG's. You stand in goddamn line, and you hit things. That's a given. If you can't understand that, then you are retarded. The only thing DIFFERENT about Final fantasy, is that they have their own spells and little icons (being moogles and chocobo's etc.) I could argue with you about this until I'm blue in the face, but I see you're obviously not going to understand it. This game sells, because it's ff. That's all. Do me a favor, and try out eq, and tell me this game is RADICALLY different from it.
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The only point you are making is that Final Fantasy 11 is an MMORPG and not an RPG. I agree with you.

Final Fantasy is NOT a genre of games. It is a series of games; but more accuratly it is a trademark owned by Square-Enix. Games in a series dont have to follow the same rules as the ones that came before them. It is up to Square to determine what is a Final Fantasy game and what isnt. Could Square have taken the final fantasy elements out and called it something else? Sure, but look at other final fantasies and this same rule applies.

You say take away the elements that make it a Final Fantasy game and agree that its not one... well no shit! Take away final fantasy elements from the other games and you end up with regular RPGs. Despite the fact that this is the only game in the series to not be an RPG doesnt make it not part of the series. Its like saying that Shakespeares commedies arent really Shakespeare because they arent tragedies.

Again, if your argument is that it isnt an RPG you are correct, but that isnt your argument. You are taking an abstract term and trying to say it is a genre in itself. Look at the command and conquer series, is renegade a command and conquer? Look at warcraft, is WoW a warcraft game? I'd have to say yes. They are not, however, RTS games.

And about the insults Naff... all it does is show that your argument is weak. You cant face facts that you are wrong, so you insult me... good job.

-Ham :shock: [/b]
 
I find the difference that seperates Final Fantasy from all your other generic RPGs is quality. Graphically, story-wise, revolution in gameplay mechanics within the RPG genre. Square tends to raise the bar whenever they do a Final Fantasy game within the gaming community. Take battle systems for example, a small change within an RPG battle system can make a world of difference. Pop in Final Fantasy 1 and play for a bit, then pop in 10 and tell me which one do you enjoy more story/graphics/music aside? I'm betting you'll say 10. At it's core yes you're doing the same thing as FF1 but with a small change such as the switch ability it can make a world of difference.
I love the art style that comes packaged within a final fantasy title. Being an artist I'm quite enamored by visuals and yes they can make or break a game for me. I don't like the way most PC games look. I"m not saying they look bad so just shut up right away with the "PC Graphics are better than Console Graphics," yes they are but I find the over-texturization of certain environments to be a bit excessive and assulting on my eyes. Squares artistic style just blows me away. After Amano started re-doing the series the character design makes me giddy. If I'm going to invest over 100 hours putting myself in the shoes of another being (sprite/character/whatever) I better like the way they look.
I like having the familiur concepts and characters re-appearing in FF11. I was so excited when I saw my first chocobo/cactuar/tonneberry/summon/spell/etc and having little things like that make me want to smile and even continue on with my character so i can see more of them. When I was level 12 I wanted to be higher level so I could beat up a Marlboro and take revenge for the carnage the unleashed on my party in FF10.
I like console gamers. yes a lot of them are fuck-tards but after playing some online PC games and then trying out PSO on the dreamcast I find it fun to discover a mmorpg with people who have never played one either...Having a common ground is awesome too. I've met tons of great people in-game just talking about the Final Fantasy series and such and then it just developes beyond that.

Yes I'm one of those "I started FFXI because it was a Final Fantasy Title" people but I also understand that it's not the same game as the rest of the series. Every game ends up playing different anyway. In 1 if you wanted to heal you needed to sacrifice a slot to your WHM, in 7 you didnt' have too you could have a war/whm/blm/smn all in one character. It pisses me off when people say "Oh you're a fan girl and that's stupid" well guess what? I've played a lot of games and I'm not a Fan Girl of all of them. Square has earned my respect as a great game company. Final Fantasy happens to be one of the titles that they do best. It's not as if Square became one of the top RPG developers by making shitty games. They were nothing when FF1 came out and they've become the popular developer they are by making quality games that continue to impress.
Yes it is an issue when people get on this game and bitch because it's not like FF7...well suprise neither was 6 or 8 or 9 or 10 or the upcomming 12. I hear it a lot from the summoners "Well they should do UBER DMG! Like they did in 10!!!" Well they don't so shut up and adapt. I'll never harp on someone for being commited to a series of whatever. It can be movies, a director, a band, comic books an artist or a game developer.
Harping on people for playing this game because it's a final fantasy title is like telling people it's stupid they like a certain rock band and not others because "All rock bands use Guitars." :roll:
 
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