A personal problem with server merges

[Achika]

At least SE didn't do what Blizzard did and allow character names with ALT code in them. Because then we could have XxŚĕpĥĩŕőţĥxx. =D

Something I just randomly thought of, we totally need a Quetzsormr or Midgarcoatl button for server choices. =o Representation of new server and NEVAR FORGET 3/22/2010! Obviously I'm kidding. =) I make no intention to cause anyone to do more work unless it's to censor me. =D

 

[Tristam Green]

At least SE didn't do what Blizzard did and allow character names with ALT code in them. Because then we could have XxŚĕpĥĩŕőţĥxx. =D

Something I just randomly thought of, we totally need a Quetzsormr or Midgarcoatl button for server choices. =o Representation of new server and NEVAR FORGET 3/22/2010! Obviously I'm kidding. =) I make no intention to cause anyone to do more work unless it's to censor me. =D

I'm working on that suggestion after you said you weren't gonna remove the Midgar banner unless "the admins deleted it"

 

[Taurothar]

As far as the naming thing goes, we can harp on all day about what happened but it's not going to magically get reversed now. I once had my account stolen while I was on a break from the game, so I didn't know about it for several months, and by the time I did attempt to recover it, the thieves (rmt based on their character creation pattern) had overwritten my content ID so many times that it wasn't possible to recover the character. SE was kind enough to give the account back after I had already started another. So when I went to make my new character on the new account, funnily enough Taurothar wasn't going through for whatever reason, and I was stuck changing it to Leothar. I wasn't happy about this but such is life, I sent a few tells explaining the name change to old friends, and nobody blinked twice, even though I have played since early 2004 as Taurothar. Now I have my old name as a mule, as I finally got it unlocked (SE had locked the name while investigating the account compromise).

Now what *should* have happened, should've been a mechanic that was built into the game from day 1. Playtime. I don't care if your ass had "Cloudx" from 2003, they should've given the name to the person with the largest amount of playtime. Sure that includes muling, and some people just never log out, but simply it's the most fair way of determining who invested the most into their character. Mules don't tend to have much playtime so that would've booted them right away. The only people who'd get screwed are those who have similar names and similar playtimes, which I'd imagine is only those uncreative enough to name themselves Legolas or Dave. But that's my 2 gil.

 

[Divinius]

As far as the naming thing goes, we can harp on all day about what happened but it's not going to magically get reversed now.

I wouldn't necessarily judge that so fast... A few people I have talked to have already gotten GMs to offer things like a second-chance to rename, and a free server transfer to a server where their name isn't taken.

If enough people complain to the right places, there is a chance, albeit slim, that SE might just let people get there names back if they were taken by ancient deleted accounts or very newly created ones (especially as in, created after the merge was announced).

 

[Kumei]

(and in response to other posts that are similar in the remembrance vein)
I really don't have a problem with honoring your home server or anything. But the bazaar note thing struck me as bad when I attempted to get a party on my White Mage, only to be kicked when I got there because I apparently "wasn't from Pandemonium". Struck me as a bit odd, too, because there was no one from Pande with my name, so it's not like they misidentified me or anything.

Geez, yeah, that's odd. Speaking as someone who's watched the effects of a long process of Midgardsormr population dwindling (we were among the largest when I started), I can't see that happening too often with Midgard refugees. I think most Midgard party leader reactions will be more along the lines of "OMG THERE ARE PEOPLE SEEKING!!!11!"


Of course, I don't merit much and hate meleeburns so I could be wrong about the attitudes prevalent at meripo specifically. *shrug*

As for JP ONRY, don't know the situation on Quetzalcoatl but I saw fairly little of this on Midgardsormr in my time there (and I started in late 2005). Of course, it probably helped that I actually have three semesters of Japanese and did tend to invite JP seekers in romanized Japanese (no IME most of the time though I do sometimes mess around in JP POL for the sake of that. Makes it hard to actually play though as I don't know most kanji). As has been pointed out, some of this is more than anything not wanting to deal with a language barrier. (Incidentally, one of the biggest practical concerns JPs bring up about mixed parties is the difficulty of discussing strategy via auto-translator. Of course, even a better auto-translate wouldn't solve an underlying cultural problem there: NAs don't discuss strategies in parties, at least not pickups for anything not horribly difficult. Believe me, I've tried. Asking the questions in perfect English won't get any more of a response. )

Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning Quetzalcoatlian so I can get more pick-up parties.

 

[Mattaru]

For the record, I quit the game, put my toon on another server, came back on that server and played a little bit and then came back to quetz after the merger. New name and everything. You can still say I am not negatively effected by this (although I was because of server transfer shutdown, but honestly that had to be done to keep people from flooding from servers before it was ready), but my point is I do not see why people get their panties in a twist over something so trivial. Am I trivializing your ingame name and associations? No. I am trivializing your response to it though.

You can nitpick about names, but honestly if you are SE what seems more feasible - come up with a half-baked priority system for names that many people will probably deem unfair anyway. Or just do what is most expedient and handle it like any other server transfer process cutting out extra bureaucracy and probably longer server down time?

No matter what people would be pissed, because this simply is not a have your cake and eat it too situation.

If any mods think this is inflammatory, I direct you to the part where I am an obvious douchebag as stated earlier.

 

[Divinius]

I don't know... If I were SE, and I knew that forcing people to change their characters names might piss off a few of my customers, I'd probably at least make some half-assed effort to ensure that if two people couldn't have the same name, the one that got screwed out of it would be the ancient long-abandoned account that was only ever active for 2 months and never managed to get a job past 12, and not the person who's been paying a subscription fee for the past 7 years, has 800+ days of playtime, and has ten jobs at 75.

But, you know, that's just me.

 

[Mattaru]

I don't disagree that there is room for improvement, but its one thing to pose an idea and another to implement it. Especially if there is some previous precedent where SE has promised not to do something like that. Basically never want to be in a position where you have to tell a customer, no matter how lowly, that as long as your data exists on a server they will not manipulate it if you have not a) broke ToS or b) a certain amount of time has passed and they can delete it from the server, then do the opposite, and explain why. In one option they have to go back on a mutually agreed document/agreement/etc., on the other hand they do what they have always have done.

 

[fizzywig]

i am not an avide poster and i agree things were handled badly with ppl having to change names in a untimely manner. SE was thinking quick and not professional get it done and over with and we will see what happens afterwords. I have meet some nice people from midgard and some not so nice as to be expected. This is a new experiance for us all to deal with just shoved together and meant to deal with things. I am glad to have more people on the server and the chance to meet new and more friends. I hope I do see you all in game since 1/2 the time i am day dreaming in campaign lol but ehh glad to have you all here if you see me just wave 90% of the time i wave back the other 10 % i am in my own little world

 

[Duffman]

...from Pandemonium have put "I'm from Pandemonium" in their bazaar messages. ...Linkshells with names like "AcesPandemonium" or "LegendPandemonium"...

hmmm... relates to
african-american
indian-american
asian-american
mexican-american
so on and so forth

Tiring, stupid, pointless. (yet I understand it)

Tiring stupid and pointless because "we are ALL americans" (well those of us who are. I know others post here)
Just like we are ALL now Quetzy folk on this server.

But it's a point of pride and heritage too. So stupid in my opinion but I understand it. That's as close as I can get to it.

 

[Taurothar]

For some reason that last post made me think of the n-word.

Are transfers gonna be able to walk around saying "Where' my midgards at?" and us Quetz folks can't use that word?

 

[Divinius]

Basically never want to be in a position where you have to tell a customer, no matter how lowly, that as long as your data exists on a server they will not manipulate it if you have not a) broke ToS or b) a certain amount of time has passed and they can delete it from the server, then do the opposite, and explain why. In one option they have to go back on a mutually agreed document/agreement/etc., on the other hand they do what they have always have done.

But, that's exactly what they did.

First of all, there is no precedent. This is the first time they forced a server merge on people. So "doing what they've always done" does not apply.

Second, I agree that they should want to avoid manipulating data of paying customers, but that's exactly what they did. Because of what they chose to do (merging servers) they had to manipulate someone's data against their will. They forcibly manipulated the data of the people that were playing on Midgard, and not the people on Quetz.

Third, in many, many cases, your status "b)" above was the case. Long abandoned accounts, that haven't played in years got to keep their names, while active players that have been using their name (and paying a subscription fee) for years got their "data manipulated".

Do you understand the unfairness now?

Are transfers gonna be able to walk around saying "Where' my midgards at?" and us Quetz folks can't use that word?

Dear god I hope not.

 

[Mattaru]

Fair:
"6 a : marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a very fair person to do business with> b (1) : conforming with the established rules : allowed"

I would say SE had to make a choice and as far as I know they did not sit around saying "I don't like Midgardsormr lets make them move!" It is not as if they made a decision out of malice or prejudice. Self-interest, yeah maybe, but I do not think most people expect a company to at least not have a smidge of self-interest. Moreover, as far as I know SE has the right to do so, which we agree to by playing the game. Quite simply your choice of words screams like the unfairness a child claims when they do not get their way. There is a difference.

The only option you are leaving SE in your three points is simply not doing a server merger because we both agree that something had to change. Who is to decide who is worthy of keeping a name? You? Why do you have any say in it, yes maybe in a case with an abandoned account it may look desirable, but what about the cases where it is not so clear cut. SE to the most clear cut option and I see nothing wrong with them for doing so.

As far as SE "forcing" people or manipulating character data...

Force:
"b. The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force"

If I have a common name and I go to a server where it exists, by choice, I have to change my name. You would not say SE is forcing me or manipulating me here because there is a predicating choice in the first place - to change servers. In this case you would think because a server merger happens people are being forced because that does not have a preceding choice, well it does, there always is one - bitch at SE for awhile trying to get a change or quit the game. If you want to be an absolutist about it those are your options. Most of us are not that extreme, I assume as you still play neither are you so do not spew misleading rhetoric that calls for action you would not even take.

Lastly, stop talking to me like I can not understand fairness or whatever great pain you are going through. I empathize with people, but I'm not going to buy into obvious Q_Q and get all upset in a big pity party.

 

[Divinius]

OK, no one asked for a "pity-party". All we are asking is that SE consider the issues they caused, provide options to correct it, or at the very least, rethink their strategy for next time. I am only voicing my communications with SE on this (and other) message boards in an attempt to encourage others that feel as I do to also take a moment to let SE know that we feel they handled this poorly. I feel something is unjust, I speak out.

"SE took the most clear cut option and I see nothing wrong with them for doing so."

OK, that seals it. I'm done trying to convince you -- it's futile. You are simply one of the people that don't "get it". I'm happy for you in that you weren't bothered by this. But I feel confident that my opinion is still valid given that many people (I'd venture to say a majority) would agree with me.

Next time they do a merge (and there will be a next time, it's inevitable), I just hope that SE does things differently... Even if all they did was make it so that any duplicate names tagged BOTH the source and destination world accounts as needing to rename, and the first person to log in got to keep the name, it would have been more fair. Sure, someone could still steal a name from a multiple 75's main character with their level 1 mule, but it would certainly be no worse than what they chose to do this time. Only difference is that the characters on the destination worlds would have an equal chance of getting screwed, and abandoned accounts wouldn't keep names by default.

If SE changes the way they do things next time, and one of the people that told us to "stop QQ-ing" gets to keep a name they would have otherwise lost, they can thank those of us that complained to SE. They won't thank us, but they should.


Regardless, as this topic was originally about people being "server-prejudiced", the whole naming fiasco was a derail anyway. So I'll drop it now.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Next time they do a merge (and there will be a next time, it's inevitable), I just hope that SE does things differently... Even if all they did was make it so that any duplicate names tagged BOTH the source and destination world accounts as needing to rename, and the first person to log in got to keep the name, it would have been more fair.

No it wouldn't. That would be even worse than what they did this round.

 

[chrono fantasy]

I'm sure in the future there will be another server merge. The Asuran server or even our server, Quetz, can eventually be merged with a new server, and we should prepare ourselves mentally if that were to happen and think about how we'd want to be treated. We wouldn't want to be forced into a new server and have those original inhabitants of the new server say to all of us: "We were here first, so GTFO!"

Things change all the time, and it's good to see a lot of Midgard folks are slowly adapting to the changes and getting their LS back together with old members and even new Quetz members.

 

[Divinius]

No it wouldn't. That would be even worse than what they did this round.

How so? How is the possibly of equally screwing both parties worse than just outright completely screwing one side?

 

[Xalioniaf]

How so? How is the possibly of equally screwing both parties worse than just outright completely screwing one side?

Because SE isn't out to screw anyone over. It's simply a matter of it being easier to treat the world transfers as they would people who pay for a migration than come up with a bunch of special rules for this specific merger. The dev team is already pretty much a skeleton crew compared to what they were before XIV was in heavy development, I doubt they'd want to waste time working out who has been playing longer, or doing some name lottery crap.

 

[Mattaru]

OK, no one asked for a "pity-party". All we are asking is that SE consider the issues they caused, provide options to correct it, or at the very least, rethink their strategy for next time. I am only voicing my communications with SE on this (and other) message boards in an attempt to encourage others that feel as I do to also take a moment to let SE know that we feel they handled this poorly. I feel something is unjust, I speak out.

"SE took the most clear cut option and I see nothing wrong with them for doing so."

OK, that seals it. I'm done trying to convince you -- it's futile. You are simply one of the people that don't "get it". I'm happy for you in that you weren't bothered by this. But I feel confident that my opinion is still valid given that many people (I'd venture to say a majority) would agree with me.

Next time they do a merge (and there will be a next time, it's inevitable), I just hope that SE does things differently... Even if all they did was make it so that any duplicate names tagged BOTH the source and destination world accounts as needing to rename, and the first person to log in got to keep the name, it would have been more fair. Sure, someone could still steal a name from a multiple 75's main character with their level 1 mule, but it would certainly be no worse than what they chose to do this time. Only difference is that the characters on the destination worlds would have an equal chance of getting screwed, and abandoned accounts wouldn't keep names by default.

If SE changes the way they do things next time, and one of the people that told us to "stop QQ-ing" gets to keep a name they would have otherwise lost, they can thank those of us that complained to SE. They won't thank us, but they should.


Regardless, as this topic was originally about people being "server-prejudiced", the whole naming fiasco was a derail anyway. So I'll drop it now.

Don't get all you mad. I just think your complaint is made out of spite of what is happening and you are trying to justify your questionable reasoning...

Things can always be done 'differently' but they don't, getting mad at someone for choosing an option that is honestly pretty reasonable is silly.

 

[Divinius]

Even if all they did was make it so that any duplicate names tagged BOTH the source and destination world accounts as needing to rename, and the first person to log in got to keep the name, it would have been more fair.

No it wouldn't. That would be even worse...

How so?

Because SE isn't out to screw anyone over. It's simply a matter of it being easier to treat the world transfers as they would people who pay for a migration than come up with a bunch of special rules for this specific merger. The dev team is already pretty much a skeleton crew compared to what they were before XIV was in heavy development, I doubt they'd want to waste time working out who has been playing longer, or doing some name lottery crap.

Way to completely fail at answering my question. You aren't explaining at all why my idea was "even worse" (because it's not -- it's more fair, it's just also more work). Instead, you ignored the question and you are explaining potential reasons why SE is lazy and/or doesn't give a shit. Which I can agree with. I think you are correct, and something similar to what you said is most likely exactly why they didn't do something more fair.

Don't get all you mad. I just think your complaint is made out of spite of what is happening and you are trying to justify your questionable reasoning...

Things can always be done 'differently' but they don't, getting mad at someone for choosing an option that is honestly pretty reasonable is silly.

I'm not mad at you guys at all. And I'm not sure what you mean by my complaint being based on "spite". Spite of what? If you mean spite out of seeing my friend get screwed out of her name by a long abandoned character, then yeah, maybe it is. If you mean spite based on the server transfer itself, then you are mistaken. I've said before that (other than the poorly handled name issue) I have had absolutely no problems with the concept of the server merge. I understand entirely why SE did it, and agree that it was the right thing to do. In fact, as I've also stated before, I have actually been looking forward to it.

But it has become quite obvious that neither of us is going to change the other's opinions, and arguing back and forth ad nauseam about it is getting tiring and boring. I can accept that people like you and Xali feel that SE's way of handling things was perfectly reasonable. But I'm still going to feel that they really should have given it far more thought. I'm willing to "agree to disagree" and leave it at that.