Abortion video

[Tyrath]

I honestly find it funny when religious people say they are against abortion because their religious views are against the taking of life.

Because no one has ever died in the name of religion before...right?


Anyways

I think abortion is fine in the cases of rape. If it was an "accident" I don't think it should be allowed, only because the "parents" knew the risks they were taking, and if you fool around you have to take responsibility of the consequences =P

 

[Sirelrohir]

Already been said, but no, it's not the mans decision. His opinion may persuade the women to her final decision, but it's not his body.

Im just curious what you think about guys having to pay child support if they didnt want the baby. There is definatly a double standard in this country when it comes to these types of issues.

 

[Zylia]

The cocky answer to that question would be 'well he should've kept it in his pants,' but thats not the answer I'd toss out.

Sire's question a really difficult one to debate. It stumped me really. I'd probably look at it in more of a pro/con way if I had to debate it in a more serious environment. Technically the child is a part of the woman, and therefore a man choosing to force the woman to have an abortion is more invasive. It is a double standard for sure, but theres much more trauma for a woman to have it done, especially if she wanted to keep the child. A woman has to have the procedure and the physical and mental aftermath of knowing and feeling that she once had a child in her - especially rough if she really wanted to keep it. All the man is facing is a alteration of his quality of life. He has to send out more money to support his child. It's not invasive into the man's physical body, theres no risk involved. He just has to suffer more consequences for his actions financially.

Theres always the stereotype that women are inferior to men and weaker, therefore laws allowing men to gain the upperhand over a woman's choice would likely be frowned upon. I'm sure some people would argue that it is harsh for a man to force a woman to get an abortion. Definitley would have the women's rights activists up in arms.

It could be argued that its a limited number of cases. In most scenarios like this... manhood is tested here. If you can man up and take responsibility for your actions, socially its more acceptable and to many men, that does actually matter to them. The man did the right thing and people are proud of him. That kind of thing. Socially its unacceptable now for a man to mistreat a woman, and many would consider forcing the abortion of a child a form of abuse or mistreatment, be it legal or moral mistreatment.

It's a really good point though Sire.

 

[Darkdante]

Did you even watch the video?

This is how I know you can't fucking read since I have an entire post devoted to answering exactly this question.

Your only argument is that we're all morons, and that all of us don't understand anything, and that you're so much better then everyoen else because you're the only one that udnerstands.

LMAO. YOur the only one I think is a total fucking MORON dude, and I stated that from your very first post to me.

Again, Go back and read.

 

[Darkdante]

Im just curious what you think about guys having to pay child support if they didnt want the baby. There is definatly a double standard in this country when it comes to these types of issues.

If the man is allowed to see the child, then he should be required to pay child support regardless if he wants the child or not.

If the man is not allowed contact with the child, then he should not be required to pay child support.

It of course doesn't work that way in real life, but I'd say that is fair.

 

[Uzor]

This is how I know you can't fucking read since I have an entire post devoted to answering exactly this question.



LMAO. YOur the only one I think is a total fucking MORON dude, and I stated that from your very first post to me.

Again, Go back and read.

Yeah, because when you can't properly address the arguments I make and call me a moron makes it entirely true... Never mind the fact that you completely ignore some of the arguments I make due to your inability to counter them.

Here, I'll play your game. Moron.

And btw, you obviously didn't the video, since you missed those large signs saying "Abortion is murder". So you either can't read, read only what you want to see (big surprise there), or you you didn't watch it.

 

[Valoran]

Because no one has ever died in the name of religion before...right?

I'm willing to go on record and say that in an easy majority of cases, when someone died in the NAME of religion, it's a case of identity theft. Political and economic reasons motivate a lot of "religious" causes. Also, a number of religious people who are against the taking of life ARE against the instances where religion has played a role in life-taking in the past.

Similarly, there are people who have died in the NAME of non-religious ethical ideals such as "freedom" or "democracy" without contributing to real freedom or acting in ways that real principles of freedom would condone. There are people who have been killed in the NAME of freedom as well.

Anyway, I'm a Christian whose belief on abortion is that the issue is clearly so complex that I couldn't possibly presume to tell someone else what they have to think about it. I know a lot of Christians who are politically liberal or politically moderate. It so happens that the conservatives have managed to get the NAME "Christian" associated with conservative christianity and evangelicalism in the US media.

I bet I can find you a crazy pro-life atheist, I bet I can find you a crazy pro-life Christian, I bet I can find you a crazy pro-choice atheist or Christian, and I'm sure I can find you thoughtful people with well-reasoned beliefs on any side.

Every so often, one of these "real world" threads on QCDN winds up hitting on a topic that has a public religious face. I have yet to see one where a public religious face states ANY view that EVERY religious person would ascribe to, and it's only the VERY rare atheist/agnostic poster that recognizes religion as being a multifaceted category. Religion-bashing becomes a pasttime for a while, and then people move on. It's annoying to those of us who actually think through our ethical sensibilities and responsibilities and happen to find various religious narratives meaningful, though, and I wish people would make fewer blanket statements. Religion isn't a binary category; neither is Christianity.

 

[Darkdante]

Yeah, because when you can't properly address the arguments I make and call me a moron makes it entirely true... Never mind the fact that you completely ignore some of the arguments I make due to your inability to counter them.

Here, I'll play your game. Moron.

And btw, you obviously didn't the video, since you missed those large signs saying "Abortion is murder". So you either can't read, read only what you want to see (big surprise there), or you you didn't watch it.

Obviously since I said I did not watch the video. Fucking idiot...........

I Ignore your arguments because you ask arguments that has already been asked in the thread and answered.

 

[Lavi]

I honestly find it funny when religious people say they are against abortion because their religious views are against the taking of life.

Because no one has ever died in the name of religion before...right?

How many people died in the name of science? Should we therefore deny all scientific progress or education?

For the record, a majority of the religious atrocities are done by religious fanaticals in the name of progress and improvement. While, it is amazing that they can garner such huge support in the name of religion while committing such heinous attrocities, it's not uncommon even outside of religion. Ever been or seen a mob? After sporting events, like the World Cup, the Superbowl and the World Series, there is often a mass riot involving many inebriated sports fans (fanatics). You can argue there is a difference because of the alcohal, but it's not that vast.

I am atheist by the way.

 

[Uzor]

Obviously since I said I did not watch the video. Fucking idiot...........

I Ignore your arguments because you ask arguments that has already been asked in the thread and answered.

So you finally admit to not watching the video? Because just a few posts above that one, you stated the following:

Did you even watch the video?

This is how I know you can't fucking read since I have an entire post devoted to answering exactly this question.

GG moron. So you're trying to lie to worm your way out of arguments now too? Make up your fucking mind. Unless you tried to avoid answering the question, again. The question was if you WATCHED the thing, not if you answered the question.

 

[Darkdante]

So you finally admit to not watching the video? Because just a few posts above that one, you stated the following:


GG moron. So you're trying to lie to worm your way out of arguments now too? Make up your fucking mind. Unless you tried to avoid answering the question, again. The question was if you WATCHED the thing, not if you answered the question.

lol, I didnt watch the video. I saw an abortion video once, I dont need to see that again.

On page 12 idiot.

 

[Halifirien]

On page 12 idiot.

There may be a misunderstanding here. The video from the orginal post is not of an abortion being performed. It's a series of quick interviews with protesters.

 

[Darkdante]

There may be a misunderstanding here. The video from the orginal post is not of an abortion being performed. It's a series of quick interviews with protesters.

Yes. Trippy already told me in the post right after, I went to look, and I posted that the video was down.

It isn't a video of an abortion, it's a video of an abortion protest.

No longer available. =/

 

[Neisan]

Huh. Damn this is a hard read.

What Can I say? I don't agree with abortion. In case of rape/incest/health complications/unable to support child, I will agree it's a necessary evil. For use as a contraceptive, no.

To me, how casually sex is treated in society is a problem (Not just consensual but also how perpetrators seem to do it without consequence of their actions. I despise people who do this, and hate the fact nothing can change the fact people out there WILL do it). Since this a problem not easily if ever resolved, the entire debate over abortion will never go away. If A leads to B and A never happens, B will not happen. Forgot how the argument exactly went but meh.

No, I did not watch the video as it was taken down before I could watch it.

To Mara (Who seems to have left a long time ago to watch Uzor Hali and Dante duke it out) The argument over aborting the fetus that might have become Hitler or Stalin is a very swinging argument. It easily goes either way over 'This person shouldn't have been born because they did X and it was horrible' and 'If this person wasn't born, X may not have happened, and this advancement greatly aided us all'.

One thing to consider: Even if you don't agree the fetus is a living human with rights, it will one day become one if allowed to develop. Can this be considered a sort of 'future' murder, as they are not alive, but would have been if left alone? I don't know. It's too much of a freakin' grey area.

 

[Calais]

If the man is allowed to see the child, then he should be required to pay child support regardless if he wants the child or not.

If the man is not allowed contact with the child, then he should not be required to pay child support.

It of course doesn't work that way in real life, but I'd say that is fair.

What about in cases where the man is not allowed to see the child because he's an alchoholic/drug addict/abusive/etc? Should he still not be required to pay child support?

(Not trying to pick on you here either <_<)

 

[Darkdante]

What about in cases where the man is not allowed to see the child because he's an alchoholic/drug addict/abusive/etc? Should he still not be required to pay child support?

(Not trying to pick on you here either <_<)

Thats actually a good argument.

I want to say he would have to pay, as long as it could be definitively proved that he was abusive and that his alchoholism was bad for the child.

That however is hard to definitively prove all the time.

 

[Uzor]

On page 12 idiot.

Yes. Trippy already told me in the post right after, I went to look, and I posted that the video was down.

In which case you're a liar or a drama queen, since you said you dedicated a whole post for it, thus calling me a moron for not reading it.

In which case, the post were very either short, or said post don't exist. On either case, you're a liar since you said you had seen the original video posted.

 

[Skaw]

I find it pretty disgusting over the amount of people here who think accidental pregnancies should be taken full term because "they knew the consequences."

Having to take care of a child shouldn't be a form of punishment, and all saying that does is make you seem like you do not know what the birth process entails financially, physically, and mentally. Sure, you can give the child up to adoption.. afterwards. But it's not like they just magically appear like in The Sims.

 

[Zephayra]

I find it pretty disgusting over the amount of people here who think accidental pregnancies should be taken full term because "they knew the consequences."

Having to take care of a child shouldn't be a form of punishment, and all saying that does is make you seem like you do not know what the birth process entails financially, physically, and mentally. Sure, you can give the child up to adoption.. afterwards. But it's not like they just magically appear like in The Sims.

Agreed.

Most of those saying a woman should carry a child to term because of an accidental pregnancy assume that there is carelessness involved. Accidental does not always mean careless. While I'm sure there is a substantial amount of accidental pregnancies that are caused because of carelessness (lack of birth control, etc), especially in young people (a stereotype I know, sorry), accidental pregnancies can also mean pills not working due to interfering other medicines, ovulation while taking the pill, condom breakage and so forth.

As for knowing the consequences, there are many people out there who do not want children at all. Unfortunately doctors and clinics WILL NOT sterilize anyone under a certain age, probably under 35. Knowing this, these people utilize birth control, but as mentioned before, it's not 100% fool proof.

If someone who does not want children gets pregnant accidentally and they have been very responsible with their birth control, why shouldn't they have the option of abortion?

 

[Panda]

Not to mention the child could grow up in an environment where the parent or parent feels so much animosity, guilt, regret or any other kind of emotion that affects the way the child is raised.. So debate if the child is worth having in an un-nurturing environment.

um, speaking of abortions, has anyone here heard of little marky? i think thats his name. don't get mad at me when you look him up.