Absolute Virtue

[Marajade]

To give the same answer that they gave you at BG when you put this forward.

Its hard to believe that no one on any other server has ever gotten this message during all the AV fights when trying the jailer weapons theory. And someone obviously saw it in thier chatlog so why no Screens?

Per the internet, Pix or it didn't happen.

 

[Uzor]

To give the same answer that they gave you at BG when you put this forward.

Its hard to believe that no one on any other server has ever gotten this message during all the AV fights when trying the jailer weapons theory. And someone obviously saw it in thier chatlog so why no Screens?

Per the internet, Pix or it didn't happen.

Becasue it is possible this message didnt exist untill the last patch, when they added the Cursed message.. And since no one have made any serious attempts with jailer weapons for a long time, that might be the reasons no one have seen it before. Which I do believe I wrote earlier.

And I honestly don't know if anyone else have any screens. Whenever we played around with him we disbanded party so he wouldn't aggro anyone else in the alliance/party. Personally I filter everything except what involves me, so I most likely would not have seen it even if I were there.

And while yes, a large part of my theory is based around that message, I also provided you with reasoning for why I believe it would work, and also the in-game text given to you by AV himself.

Additionally, you can compare it to Sky. The lower gods drop an item which can be used to make the other gods weaker, the Arctic Wind etc. So its not like the Jailer weapons weakening AV would be something new by SE.

 

[Marajade]

Even if the message didnt exist, you think someone would have noticed that he stopped doing the things you describe. Then there's the fact that that phrase doesn't exist within the dats for the area.

next time AV is up, go at him with Jailer weapons and try to replicate this. If you cant, it either doesn't exist or it does but it still doesn't count as a way to kill him because it'll never be pulled off enough times in sucession to kill him.

If it cant be replicated with one weapon, how could you replicate it with all the weapons to actualy make him killable.

 

[Uzor]

Even if the message didnt exist, you think someone would have noticed that he stopped doing the things you describe. Then there's the fact that that phrase doesn't exist within the dats for the area.

next time AV is up, go at him with Jailer weapons and try to replicate this. If you cant, it either doesn't exist or it does but it still doesn't count as a way to kill him because it'll never be pulled off enough times in sucession to kill him.

If it cant be replicated with one weapon, how could you replicate it with all the weapons to actualy make him killable.

The messages for every hit you do doesn't exist in the .dat's either, but it doesn't mean they're not there. If its an additionall effect, it naturally won't exist in the .dat's for Al'Taieu.

And I do believe I mentioned earlier that AV were broken before. You could lock him by simply killing the Wynavs, which SE obviously didn't intend to happen as they made you unable to lock it by doing that.

And people wouldn't neccesarily have noticed a difference, as it is possible you need to actually unlock the weapons first, or somehow power them up. Its not like a lot of people actually bother to use the weapons in sea outside of hitting AV with them.

 

[Negorissimo]

AUREOLE
----------
Level: 75
Slot: Ranged
Type: Thrown - Returns
Jobs: All
Races: All
Damage: 28
Delay: 192
Damage Per Second (DPS): 8.75
TP Per Hit: 5.3%
Effects for Aureole: Magic Accuracy +8

This weapon is a very good incentive to try and find what makes Absolute Virtue tick.

 

[Uzor]

indeed T_T me wants

Either way, I didn't expect everyone to dissagree. i'd honestly be surprised if that was the case. You should be critical, as you are right, I don't have any real proof suporting my theory. However, the way I see it, if we never attempt to disprove or prove any theories right or wrong, we won't ever discover how to defeat AV. And wheither you attempt to disprove or prove my theory, Im sure it'll aid in the progress of finding out how to defeat him, which is the goal of this thread either way.

 

[Marajade]

The messages for every hit you do doesn't exist in the .dat's either, but it doesn't mean they're not there. If its an additionall effect, it naturally won't exist in the .dat's for Al'Taieu.

It's a specific reaction to an action within an area, not an additional effect of the weapons themselves, because it changes the workings of a monster within the area, instead of just inflicting damage. (also, even mundane effects like "additional effect paralyze" or "Additional effect, x damage" exist in the dats in a centeral location, just like the new cursed text for the BLM armor.) Its like the message text for BCNMs (Platoon scorpions legs getting stuck in the rocks in KS30)

 

[Hmkiroko]

Uzor, sounds like a good theory. Even though you don't have pictures to substantiate the claim, I would suggest trying it again when you get him to pop, and make sure you take a screenshot with whoever connects with the hit.

 

[Uzor]

It's a specific reaction to an action within an area, not an additional effect of the weapons themselves, because it changes the workings of a monster within the area, instead of just inflicting damage. (also, even mundane effects like "additional effect paralyze" or "Additional effect, x damage" exist in the dats in a centeral location, just like the new cursed text for the BLM armor.) Its like the message text for BCNMs (Platoon scorpions legs getting stuck in the rocks in KS30)

Yes, it is a specific reaction to a mob in the zone. The scorpions, as an example, aren't affected by a weapon. They do it randomly, and when low on HP, "the scorpion w/e are too weak to attack." Its not triggered by a weapon etc.

As an example, Silence changes a mob's behaviour. Curse also weakenes an enemy and makes it attack slower. I'm sure SE could program a weapon that locks a part of a mob's ability, or causes a constant silence effect to only some spells, similar to the "Unable to use Black Magic" status effect in Nyzul. They can easily make any status effect etc. if they so desire, like the NM Euvhi in Al'Taieu that drops a key item. SE have proved by doing Salvage that they can make pretty much any status effect they so wish. Like making you unable to use abilities. Aerns are also known to have different jobs, so all the weapon could do is prevent him to have access to abilities and spells connected to that job. As I mentioned earlier, he only casts Meteor while Chainspell (read: RDM job), so all the weapo ncould do is prevent him to change in to a RDM.

Sea, AV and a lot of the jailers aren't like normal mobs and areas, so we shouldn't really compare them to other areas and mobs. If you want to go in to odd behaviours, this is also in the Al'Taieu .dat

Dialog Table Entry 00607 Absolute Virtue uses Hundred Fists.≺Prompt≻

Dialog Table Entry 00608 Absolute Virtue uses Mijin Gakure.≺Prompt≻

I am unaware of any other mobs that have their 2-hours listed seperatly in the .dat of the zone.

 

[Reko]

About why the THF got the message no one else never got...

Might just be like with the KS30 weapons, or the Trial weapons, that you need to unlock them.

And sure, some of them are fun to play around with, but I doubt many people (who also then later try them on av) use them alot. Or enough. Or at the right mobs.


Could just be that you need to get 1000 ws points from ws's done to Aern's.
Or anything really.
And like Uzor said, the THF might not lie.
So, why not try to use the weapons while farming sea (makes most sense if there's any truth to this that sea is where to unlock them).
Maybe you even have to have used your weapon on the other NM's down there.
Could probably narrow it down alittle by asking the THF when and where he uses his sword.

But yeah, it wont make Sea alot harder by using the weapons instead of whatever else you're mainhanding.
I guess the worst part will be having your bards melee everything with Hope Staff and whatnot




And also, until we know how to kill him, this theory is just about as good as any.
I think Uzor provided pretty substantional material actually.
But that might just be because I'm quite easy on my feet

 

[Uzor]

Below isn't really related to AV, but the jailers in general.

Also worth mentioning is the virtues and sins. I made a nice little list.

lust < Sensibility > Prudence (chastity)
gluttony < Moderation > Temperance
Greed <> Love (charity)
Sloth <> Faith (diligence)
Wrath <> Temperance (forgiveness)
Envy < Placidity > Hope (kindness)
Pride <> Justice (humbleness)

Vices are basically a corrupt form of a virtue, or an "in-between" two extremes. Each of the Ix'Aerns drops a Vice and a Deed, and the Vice can be turned in for its opposite, as shown below. Placidity, Moderation and Sensibility can be considered the mean between two extremes

Antipathy < Placidity > Mercy
Aspersion < Sensibility > Astute
Avarice < Moderation > Altruistic

Edit: well, I do believe the above part might be wrong, as I'm honestly not 100% sure what some of those words mean. It does hold true for Avarice < Moderation > Altruistic, though, which were the first ones I checked, but it might be a similar pattern to the others if they don't follow the same extreme < in-between > extreme pattern.

Additionally, all of the Jailers are based on the four Cardinal Virtues together with the three Theological virtues. Justice, Fortitude, Prudence, and Temperance are the four Cardinal Virtues. In old paintings, Justice is often painted wielding a sword.

Fortitude is often seen together with a lion, and is often seen wearing a mace or hammer, and wearing heavy armour.

Prudence can be seen together with some kind of serpent and wearing a mirror.She have also been portrayed as having two faces, and the mirror can often look similar to that of a rod.

Temperance can be seen pouring some kind of liquid in to vases, or holding 2 vases

As you can see, Square took the mobs etc. direvtly from the virtues. Temperance can be seen pouring things in to vases. Temperance is also a Zdei (Vase-looking mob). Prudence can be portrayed as having two faces and being together with serpants. Prudence is a Hpemde, and looks kind of similar to that of a serpent, and they're also two. Justice is a Xzomit, and can be seen as a blunt weapon piercing its target. Additionally, he drops a sword, which is what Justice is often seen wielding.

 

[Arien]

You get an A+ for effort Uzor.

 

[Courtney]

If you have a so called "unlocked" weapon, it should be a simple matter to reproduce the message, and the effect.

 

[Uzor]

If you have a so called "unlocked" weapon, it should be a simple matter to reproduce the message, and the effect.

Indeed, but I would guess that you need to "unlock" it once you've used it on AV. Either way, I'm going to force the sea shell I'm in to melee Aerns with the Jailer weapons, so let's see how that goes >.>

 

[Bajaratt]

I can't imagine you'd have to unlock your weapon after every use on AV.

 

[Uzor]

I can't imagine you'd have to unlock your weapon after every use on AV.

Why not? That's like saying you can't imagine having to farm a new pop set between each jailer pop Its not like it would make things any harder since you just have to use them while farming the Aerns for the Deeds.

 

[Bajaratt]

Farming up a pop set is different, because it's a consumable item. You get the item, then spawn the monster, the pop item is not "required" to beat the monster, only to spawn it so that you can fight.

If they made the weapons "break" after you successfully used them on AV, then I could see something to that idea, but changing the effects of gear on and off would be ridiculous.

 

[Courtney]

It seems like an extraordinary effort to go to on the basis of a single, unsubstantiated report.

Good Luck.

 

[Westyle]

The secret is to use to /kneel, /bow, and /praise emotes and cast cure on AV

 

[Uzor]

Farming up a pop set is different, because it's a consumable item. You get the item, then spawn the monster, the pop item is not "required" to beat the monster, only to spawn it so that you can fight.

If they made the weapons "break" after you successfully used them on AV, then I could see something to that idea, but changing the effects of gear on and off would be ridiculous.

Ny "ridiculus" I assume that it would be uneccesary coding or somethign similar? From a programming standpoint, it just simply have to be the difference of a 1 and 0. It is nowhere near impossible to do, can be done rather simply. If the hidden effect activates by killing 30 Aerns, you just have to have the weapon count. That system is already in effect with WS quest weapons. Once it reaches 30, the hidden effect activates, and when triggered, you just simply have to have it reset to 0.