Absolution -- Dynamis Zone Sniping

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While you are at it, look into the Tragedy of the Commons and Game Theory (I once put up a game showing how botting was a logical choice given SE's ignorance of it - that was like 3 years ago though, I think things have changed concerning SE's handling of ToS breakers compared to the time of high RMT activity).

http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=34893

Good times, good times.

And in terms of STF activity, apparently they do branch out beyond pure in-game occurrences, and take a long look at websites, forum boards, and so on, especially if they're tipped off to do so. Those leads are used to analyze in-game behaviors, and narrow the searches when pulling chat logs and such.

It's an inordinately difficult way to go about the process, though it occasionally yields results, and I wish they'd just go ahead and install some sort of spyware to catch the cheaters directly.

And better yet, install it as a stealth update, then just bring down the banhammer so we can all see who just talks the talk.
 
http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=34893

Good times, good times.

And in terms of STF activity, apparently they do branch out beyond pure in-game occurrences, and take a long look at websites, forum boards, and so on, especially if they're tipped off to do so. Those leads are used to analyze in-game behaviors, and narrow the searches when pulling chat logs and such.

It's an inordinately difficult way to go about the process, though it occasionally yields results, and I wish they'd just go ahead and install some sort of spyware to catch the cheaters directly.

And better yet, install it as a stealth update, then just bring down the banhammer so we can all see who just talks the talk.

Ahhhhh that is old. Could have been made better, once again though notice how the worst situation utility wise is when multiple players bot - so unless you have NASA there is the possibility that you are actually willfully putting yourself in the worst situation lulz.
 
Ahhhhh that is old. Could have been made better, once again though notice how the worst situation utility wise is when multiple players bot - so unless you have NASA there is the possibility that you are actually willfully putting yourself in the worst situation lulz.


You know. I rarely read posts like your past 2-3. I must say your one smart mother fucker. I have reserved you a spot on my famous signature quotes!

You really like, run a site or something. Hell, start your own forum. Maybe your own game? I'd play it.

Cheers matt. Hope you get them gaiters soon.
 
You really should like**

-.-; I really need to go back and look before I hit *post*.
 
And better yet, install it as a stealth update, then just bring down the banhammer so we can all see who just talks the talk.

Pretty sure they could get their asses sued if they did that with the EULA as it's currently written. They could do a rewrite and force everyone to agree with it, but that would be a pretty obvious tipoff unless people are really stupid.

....on second thought, I suppose that would work.
 
You bot because it enhances "your" experience which naturally is subjective. In almost tautological fashion this takes away any concrete justification for botting other than subjective reasons. Naturally this is a pretty big slippery slope. For instance, lets say I hacked accounts for RMT and because it really enhanced my experience. And I hacked your account. I am sure you wouldn't be too pleased with that because you place some value on your account - if you don't my offer to take it off your hands is still open. Point being relying entirely on subjective standards of "enhancing gameplay" that go beyond some baseline or rules will inevitably effect others in a negative way that goes beyond the definition of fairness. It is the simple principle of my right to punch you in the face only goes so far as your nose.

Not trying to get into a moral quibble with you, just trying to show you that you are inconsistent really (that is, as long as you would be the slightest bit annoyed when your account gets hacked, someone outbots you, or you don't give me your account). I think Sartre called this "Bad Faith", look it up.

@Tymon: As for why these arguments are of importance... Flames about the existence of botting and such are pretty dead, but I think it's important to challenge the idea of it being right or wrong, or not hurting anyone. General apathy toward botting itself shouldn't really be used as a justification to argue for the moral nature of botting.

Completely aside from Mansin in particular, if you boil it down to the motivations , it becomes easier to look at from a moral perspective. The two big things that have been mentioned as reasons have really been, greed (eg: want of items, enhancing game play) and egotism (eg: willingness to use, sense of entitlement.) Neither of those two things are really bad things, so it's not easy at that point to arrive to any conclusions. I would agree that the _act_ of botting is morally ambiguous but I don't think I'd go so far as to say, there's nothing morally wrong with it, ala Krono.

If we think about it from the server perspective, botting has really never been such a widespread problem as it is now, prior to server migration being implemented. Whether or not there were problems or weren't isn't the issue, but the majority of the end game shells either frowned upon it or took no real stance. Compared to now, the arguments in the past usually centered on who it was. If you consider the local atmosphere and the influence of the consensus on what's morally acceptable (say, to a game, or to a server, or to a linkshell) at that point I don't think there was really much disagreement about it being, "right," or, "wrong." But server migration sort of challenges the local server environment so it's a bit pointless to argue about now, but it's certainly a factor that some people consider when deciding what opinion to hold towards botting.

But I think that's partially because I'm looking at it from the perspective of it being specifically a game. When you start to add money to the equation, and not talking about gil, but actual money, then It seems to get even more questionable. At the point where you're starting to choose to extract real worth out of it doesn't really seem to be about a game anymore. In any real situation to make money out of cheating with the motivations of greed and egotism would illicit a pretty general moral judgment. A reason like, "Because I'm not getting caught," is going to fall short in that arena.

If we follow the not so great analogy about downloading music (let's use something completely fine to download like stuff under licensed under CC,) if you started burning the music onto cds and then selling them, I'm sure it would be just a little more morally questionable than before, and if you started calling that music your own creation, then it'd be even more so. However, if you started suing the original creators for plagiarism for something you stole, then you'd be... a bona-fide popstar.

Anyways, within a locality you'll generally find that the consensus held toward conversion of something free into real money to be generally morally shady or outright wrong (eg: scanlations and stoptazmo, onemanga, etc,) even if that particular locality is already morally questionable in the big scope (every scanlater that has their head on right will tell you what they're doing is illegal.) Aside from subjective morals concerning individuals, when you examine the act itself and what it stems from, it becomes quite difficult to argue for anything more than it being morally questionable.
 
I've always wondered how people go about starting a conversation about spending thousands of dollars on a bot for a video game. I love clynt but someone recently sent me this site link full of screens from their forums. I laughed when I saw these screens of this LS discussing getting NASA. No idea if Abso uses NASA or not.

I mean as a person irl, i laughed. I know its not a laughing matter, but I just cant see how anyone would take that seriously.

"Hey y'all, Lets get us some NASA"

"YAY! how do we get it?"

"We'll need to donate hundreds of dollars and hundreds of millions of gil for it. WHOS IN?"

I would laugh if my friends suggested it. Once I start to realize how serious people are taking it. I think I would be in shock. I mean, it is funny at first. I mean... 2500$? You mean.. Two-thousand five hundred dollars? You do know there are plenty of other things you can spend 2500$ right?

For the gals: Get your hair done, get your nails, go shoppin, buy the limited edition DVD of twilight. Lots of stuff.

For the guys: I'm sure you boys can find something other than bots and hookers to spend money on... or Gil.. or rap music.

Id imagine if a LS did start discussing this, It would start something like it does in these screenshots. Anyways, heres the link. Prolly provide some LOLs.

http://sephius.sector7slums.net/
 
Again, more huge generalizations from the peanut gallery. U R SHORT LOL GO OUTSIDE U HPYICRITE!!!

I guess Myrrh is the smartest retard here, considering he's on to the fact that I'm trolling all of you so hard it fucking hurts, but if you'd like to me to continue entertaining you I will.

I don't bot for a sense of empowerment. My dick doesn't get hard because Fafnir is red. I've been over this, but if you are all too stupid to understand it I'll go over it again:

Me botting = more claims = more gil = more $$$.
Relating this to anything in real life is devoid of any point or meaning. The best analogy is that I'm botting in an online game and using the profits to make money in real life. None of this tax evasion bullshit. I don't lack anything, this is again your stupid, nonsensical over-exaggeration of botting and it's users personal inefficiencies.

You can keep bringing up this, but it won't make you any more right. The downloading music analogy is perfect. It is stealing. Stealing is bad. If you steal from someone you are doing a bad thing to them, and that makes you a bad person. Stealing means you're trying to make up for something in your real life you never had. If you steal you're automatically socially inpet, fat, and short. I could continue going on drawing ridiculous parallels as you all are, but anyone with half a brain can see how many holes are in the argument. brb einherjar GONNA BOT THAT TOO CUZ I GOT NO SKILL LOL


also, To whoever asked: for rare/ex items, we sell them. Our members have 3 item wishlists for any r/ex items we get and have no buyer for. Any items we have too many of (ixion cape/cloak azoth, novio/a, etc are handed out at the end of the month to those deserving.
 
I honestly don't know how I truely think about it. It's a more complicated debate when you start getting into all kinds of subsidiary issues.

I can have a good, solid stance on just the issue: Player A bots. Is this wrong?

Of course it's wrong.

Once you get into all the grey areas, money, RMT, selling, profits, it becomes harder to understand easily; because it's a game.

You don't come into these issues thinking it's going to be a damned court session. It's hard to get into that kind of a mindset.

I think the easiest way to express what a personal stance on something would be is the easiest question: would you do it?

My viewpoint on that kind of changed over time. At one point, I held the opinion that as long as it doesn't directly hinder or cause problems for other people, nothing is illegal.

Obviously, that's insane when you start to think of it. What are laws in such a situation? Guidelines?

Doing something under that viewpoint is crazy in the idea that you may be causing problems by just doing it in the first place. You end up being blinded by your own personal judgement, it never ends up well.

I'm fucking rambling about stuff not even relevant here. I'm going to stop before I end up like Charles Manson.
 
Pretty sure they could get their asses sued if they did that with the EULA as it's currently written. They could do a rewrite and force everyone to agree with it, but that would be a pretty obvious tipoff unless people are really stupid.

....on second thought, I suppose that would work.

Yea verily. Most people never bother to actually read the changes that get posted about to the EULA/TOS. Even the relatively intelligent ones. So long as SE didn't advertise the purpose of the update, I'm fairly certain it would slip by largely unnoticed, then the banning/laughing/crying could begin.
 
Again, more huge generalizations from the peanut gallery. U R SHORT LOL GO OUTSIDE U HPYICRITE!!!

I guess Myrrh is the smartest retard here, considering he's on to the fact that I'm trolling all of you so hard it fucking hurts, but if you'd like to me to continue entertaining you I will.

I don't bot for a sense of empowerment. My dick doesn't get hard because Fafnir is red. I've been over this, but if you are all too stupid to understand it I'll go over it again:

Me botting = more claims = more gil = more $$$.
Relating this to anything in real life is devoid of any point or meaning. The best analogy is that I'm botting in an online game and using the profits to make money in real life. None of this tax evasion bullshit. I don't lack anything, this is again your stupid, nonsensical over-exaggeration of botting and it's users personal inefficiencies.

You can keep bringing up this, but it won't make you any more right. The downloading music analogy is perfect. It is stealing. Stealing is bad. If you steal from someone you are doing a bad thing to them, and that makes you a bad person. Stealing means you're trying to make up for something in your real life you never had. If you steal you're automatically socially inpet, fat, and short. I could continue going on drawing ridiculous parallels as you all are, but anyone with half a brain can see how many holes are in the argument. brb einherjar GONNA BOT THAT TOO CUZ I GOT NO SKILL LOL


also, To whoever asked: for rare/ex items, we sell them. Our members have 3 item wishlists for any r/ex items we get and have no buyer for. Any items we have too many of (ixion cape/cloak azoth, novio/a, etc are handed out at the end of the month to those deserving.

For some reason I read this and thought "wopwopwaaaoooop".

Then I read "trolling all of you so bad it fucking hurts" and was like: besides that being bar-none huge nerd-fap because who else would actually say that, that sounds like the name of some amateur porn on the web by some Guido railing 'skinny bitches'.

Onto what could be perversely called 'substantive issues'.

Relating things to real life is simply showing how similar ideas or standards predicate a particular behavior - IRL or online. Basically what I mean is logic exists and logic can show connections between things. I don't think that is too out there. If it is to out there for you, do something completely illogical like delete your account or give it to me for no reason whatsoever. Then be like: dude its online stop making dumb parallels.

Yeah the problem with your equation is that the links in between can be severed by a variety of other things like: possibly getting banned, other people using a better bot, being in a bad spot for claiming, someone hopping servers with your bank (because trust is of the utmost importance I am sure), bad crafting luck, shitty internet connection, JP button, or simply there are many other ways to make money to RMT from this game. One of my best friends on this game RMT'd millions upon millions of gil for thousands of dollars from crafting. There are many different ways to get to your last little stop on your problematic equation.

Moreover, the point of things like tragedy of the commons is that when enough people make that poorly revealed self-interest decision it actually works against their interest. The best bot is a bot used when no one else is using it. As more bots are in competition with one another the individual effectiveness goes down to the point where it is basically as lucky as if no bots were being used. In other words: botting is self-defeating logic.

I can't take someone seriously who says "I don't lack anything". Either you are some sort of Zen master or beyond self-deluded.

The only person who isn't lacking anything is capped out fsho. This sentence isn't at you Mansin, its an inside joke.
 
Again, more huge generalizations from the peanut gallery. U R SHORT LOL GO OUTSIDE U HPYICRITE!!!

I guess Myrrh is the smartest retard here, considering he's on to the fact that I'm trolling all of you so hard it fucking hurts, but if you'd like to me to continue entertaining you I will.

I don't bot for a sense of empowerment. My dick doesn't get hard because Fafnir is red. I've been over this, but if you are all too stupid to understand it I'll go over it again:

Me botting = more claims = more gil = more $$$.
Relating this to anything in real life is devoid of any point or meaning. The best analogy is that I'm botting in an online game and using the profits to make money in real life. None of this tax evasion bullshit. I don't lack anything, this is again your stupid, nonsensical over-exaggeration of botting and it's users personal inefficiencies.

You can keep bringing up this, but it won't make you any more right. The downloading music analogy is perfect. It is stealing. Stealing is bad. If you steal from someone you are doing a bad thing to them, and that makes you a bad person. Stealing means you're trying to make up for something in your real life you never had. If you steal you're automatically socially inpet, fat, and short. I could continue going on drawing ridiculous parallels as you all are, but anyone with half a brain can see how many holes are in the argument. brb einherjar GONNA BOT THAT TOO CUZ I GOT NO SKILL LOL


also, To whoever asked: for rare/ex items, we sell them. Our members have 3 item wishlists for any r/ex items we get and have no buyer for. Any items we have too many of (ixion cape/cloak azoth, novio/a, etc are handed out at the end of the month to those deserving.

You're a complete fucking moron. Every time someone posts something accurately describing how much of a fuckwit you are, you come back saying "you're all wrong becuz i'm makin dolla and it's a game and your *insert randomly picked-out big word* are all wrong." I've asked you before, are you actually going to defend yourself with anything solid? Or are you going to continue proving every person right who has said "botting = fail" and "Mansin is a fucking moron"?

You can say "I'm laughing at you" all you want, that seems to be your Linkshell's answer to everything, but I assure you, it's the normal people on this forum who play the game fairly within the guidelines who are laughing at your inability to succeed at a game without cheating.
 
Let him Bot his seveneyes, ridill and other outdaded/crappy gears.
Botting is stupid because the good gear can be obtained easilly in Einherjar, limbus and salvage, and you can't bot there lmao. The Good Ls of quetz hardly camp Kings anymore, from what ive seen, and get their abjs in einherjar.
 
You're a complete fucking moron. Every time someone posts something accurately describing how much of a fuckwit you are, you come back saying "you're all wrong becuz i'm makin dolla and it's a game and your *insert randomly picked-out big word* are all wrong." I've asked you before, are you actually going to defend yourself with anything solid? Or are you going to continue proving every person right who has said "botting = fail" and "Mansin is a fucking moron"?

You can say "I'm laughing at you" all you want, that seems to be your Linkshell's answer to everything, but I assure you, it's the normal people on this forum who play the game fairly within the guidelines who are laughing at your inability to succeed at a game without cheating.


well said
 
Bigbroon, frosted was never in absolution.

And I don't get how people think just because equip has been in the game a while it makes it crap and not worth camping. Sure you can get it from Einherjar but you can obtain it faster by camping >.>
 
You're a complete fucking moron. Every time someone posts something accurately describing how much of a fuckwit you are, you come back saying "you're all wrong becuz i'm makin dolla and it's a game and your *insert randomly picked-out big word* are all wrong." I've asked you before, are you actually going to defend yourself with anything solid? Or are you going to continue proving every person right who has said "botting = fail" and "Mansin is a fucking moron"?

You can say "I'm laughing at you" all you want, that seems to be your Linkshell's answer to everything, but I assure you, it's the normal people on this forum who play the game fairly within the guidelines who are laughing at your inability to succeed at a game without cheating.

Every time you post insinuating I'm in Absolution, I laugh at your inability to read. You truly are a moron.

I've brought plenty of evidence and concrete data to this. I've made REAL money by breaking a moral code in a video game. The only evidence anyone has brought up is Mattaru, who is basically trying to attach my "moral wrongdoings" to psychological conjecture, that is so close to being a logical fallacy it might as well be considered such.

Also, if you've been paying attention, I've never said botting was right. I know it's not right. It's breaking the rules. What I came to defend was the fact that botting=no real life, and then it's been turned off course but illiterate dumbfucks like yourself that are trying to my words a different meaning.
 
Botting is stupid because the good gear can be obtained easilly in Einherjar, limbus and salvage

Lots of amazing stuff you can't get from those. For example, Herald's Gaiters, Ace's Helm, Bahamut's Mask, Defending Ring, Black Belt, and the list could go on. Just because you don't do something yourself doesn't mean it's completely pointless for other people to do it. This whole "what you do in end-game is dumb" argument is stupid and has nothing to do with the topic at hand anyway.
 
For some reason I read this and thought "wopwopwaaaoooop".

Then I read "trolling all of you so bad it fucking hurts" and was like: besides that being bar-none huge nerd-fap because who else would actually say that, that sounds like the name of some amateur porn on the web by some Guido railing 'skinny bitches'.

Onto what could be perversely called 'substantive issues'.

Relating things to real life is simply showing how similar ideas or standards predicate a particular behavior - IRL or online. Basically what I mean is logic exists and logic can show connections between things. I don't think that is too out there. If it is to out there for you, do something completely illogical like delete your account or give it to me for no reason whatsoever. Then be like: dude its online stop making dumb parallels.

Yeah the problem with your equation is that the links in between can be severed by a variety of other things like: possibly getting banned, other people using a better bot, being in a bad spot for claiming, someone hopping servers with your bank (because trust is of the utmost importance I am sure), bad crafting luck, shitty internet connection, JP button, or simply there are many other ways to make money to RMT from this game. One of my best friends on this game RMT'd millions upon millions of gil for thousands of dollars from crafting. There are many different ways to get to your last little stop on your problematic equation.

Moreover, the point of things like tragedy of the commons is that when enough people make that poorly revealed self-interest decision it actually works against their interest. The best bot is a bot used when no one else is using it. As more bots are in competition with one another the individual effectiveness goes down to the point where it is basically as lucky as if no bots were being used. In other words: botting is self-defeating logic.

I can't take someone seriously who says "I don't lack anything". Either you are some sort of Zen master or beyond self-deluded.

The only person who isn't lacking anything is capped out fsho. This sentence isn't at you Mansin, its an inside joke.


Again, more moralfag bullshit, spoken from someone who is truly ignorant when it comes to bots. You have never used a bot. You do not know how they work. Why do you continue to use hypothetical "I heard from a friend evidence" in a matter of fact tone?

Absolution is proving your entire "botting is self defeating" logical fallacy to be wrong. Absolution doesn't use a server packet bot because the competition does, they use the bot to get a 90%+ claim rate on HNMs. It IS the perfect bot. The "perfect bot" scenario is garbage, as well.

1. Being in a bad spot for claiming? Each HNM camp has an exact spot to stand where your cast is guaranteed. If Absolution is smart they all stand in one place at camps to get their casts, and remove all fast cast gear.

2. Being banned is just laughable. Find me one member of Absolution that was banned for botting that set it up correctly. You won't be able to, because it doesn't happen.

3. Someone using a better bot? NASA IS the perfect bot. NASA can also only be sold to one LS per server, so the assumption that your competition will have a better bot is impossible.

I will explain to you how it works and maybe you will better understand. FFXI app is a shitty bot, so don't think NASA is a bunch of linked FFXIapps. FFXIapp inputs commands into the game through the windower on a target you've selected. It ONLY works if you can see the monster.

NASA works differently. When a mob spawns in FFXI, packets are sent to the server. These packets are intercepted by NASA, and your action will be placed on the mob through the process of sending your actions directly to the server. This way, there is no error. Upon the monster popping, NASA automatically sets your delays and sends packets through each character at specific intervals, so close to the point where your competition needs to cast at perfect times to get claims.

Point being: NASA is the perfect bot. Have I said it enough yet? The competition is not really considered competition to someone with a server packet bot. I never claimed the only way in this game to make gil(and subsequently real money) was through botting. It is simply the way I choose to do it, and that's about it. I only really made the RMT jab because I know how much it sets QCDN off. However, if you would like to continue acting as if you know how bots and botting works, be my guest.




I will also point out that I should have been more clear when saying I do not need anything. I really meant to bring up the fact that a bot is not making up for my insinuated short comings, and is certainly not going to give me anything I don't already have besides money. Commence the backpedaling.
 
Who gives a fuck if Absolution bots? We still out claim them... And they sure as Hell still out claim us. (I'm in Sativa btw.. since my sig hasn't been updated).. I dno If I can even justify spending $20 dollars on a bot though. I value my account more than those people. But tbh, I really couldn't give a fuck who is botting at Kings. Hell, even back when I was in JDA people were botting.. Although, we never got claim because most of the botters never were at the camps.. Hm... guess that must mean something.

YES, Absolution has some jackasses. But I'm not fucking perfect either. Sevv said that he's planning to use the calendar for Abso's dynamis stuff now. So tbh, this thread... since the topic is "Absolution -- Dynamis Zone Sniping", should be closed. But I'm sure there's a months more drama, at least, that can be added to this thread. /yawn.
 
Oh also, I'm aware that Mansin is not in Absolution.. Just in case anyone assumed I was referring to anything he said. ..I'm still wondering why he's even here.
 
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