Absolution -- Dynamis Zone Sniping

[Mattaru]

Again, more moralfag bullshit, spoken from someone who is truly ignorant when it comes to bots. You have never used a bot. You do not know how they work. Why do you continue to use hypothetical "I heard from a friend evidence" in a matter of fact tone?

Absolution is proving your entire "botting is self defeating" logical fallacy to be wrong. Absolution doesn't use a server packet bot because the competition does, they use the bot to get a 90%+ claim rate on HNMs. It IS the perfect bot. The "perfect bot" scenario is garbage, as well.

1. Being in a bad spot for claiming? Each HNM camp has an exact spot to stand where your cast is guaranteed. If Absolution is smart they all stand in one place at camps to get their casts, and remove all fast cast gear.

2. Being banned is just laughable. Find me one member of Absolution that was banned for botting that set it up correctly. You won't be able to, because it doesn't happen.

3. Someone using a better bot? NASA IS the perfect bot. NASA can also only be sold to one LS per server, so the assumption that your competition will have a better bot is impossible.

I will explain to you how it works and maybe you will better understand. FFXI app is a shitty bot, so don't think NASA is a bunch of linked FFXIapps. FFXIapp inputs commands into the game through the windower on a target you've selected. It ONLY works if you can see the monster.

NASA works differently. When a mob spawns in FFXI, packets are sent to the server. These packets are intercepted by NASA, and your action will be placed on the mob through the process of sending your actions directly to the server. This way, there is no error. Upon the monster popping, NASA automatically sets your delays and sends packets through each character at specific intervals, so close to the point where your competition needs to cast at perfect times to get claims.

Point being: NASA is the perfect bot. Have I said it enough yet? The competition is not really considered competition to someone with a server packet bot. I never claimed the only way in this game to make gil(and subsequently real money) was through botting. It is simply the way I choose to do it, and that's about it. I only really made the RMT jab because I know how much it sets QCDN off. However, if you would like to continue acting as if you know how bots and botting works, be my guest.




I will also point out that I should have been more clear when saying I do not need anything. I really meant to bring up the fact that a bot is not making up for my insinuated short comings, and is certainly not going to give me anything I don't already have besides money. Commence the backpedaling.

If you go back to my first post I believe I specifically said I don't want to get into a moral quibble with you, because I feel it goes nowhere with you. My point was to show you are inconsistent. Inconsistent in your logic and inconsistent in your OWN subjective standards/values. I am not going around giving you some sort of objective standard, only showing how you are confused in your own thought which I chose to get from you NOT from assumption, but asking you questions directly which you willingly answered for the most part.

I am not hearing things from a friend, it is intuitive botting becomes self-defeating, this would be the case with NASA IF it was not only available to one LS per server. It is only perfect because of limited access. Even though it is able to do what you say it does, if that ability is open to every LS it becomes more or less a question of some skill and luck. I believe even earlier I mentioned "so unless you have NASA there is the possibility that you are actually willfully putting yourself in the worst situation lulz." I realize that NASA is really ahead of any competition beforehand. So your entire point 3 was not something I was even contending....I was saying obviously people without NASA also bot, and people botted before NASA - that was pretty self-defeating and if someone is able to duplicate a bot like NASA and make it available to everyone it too would become self-defeating. Thanks for spending most of your post being redundant. I think you can appreciate this Mr. "Every time you post insinuating I'm in Absolution, I laugh at your inability to read. You truly are a moron." I didn't say it, you did...moron?


As far as bannings go, I asked you in my first post to outline how you go about not getting banned for sure. I am not saying there isn't a way, but I asked you to tell me how you do it. Also, I have been away for a large portion of time that Absolution was on the server so I don't really know them, this being besides the whole BG thread where they were migrating and it was just like "been there done that" to me.

Yes, I will agree in Aery if everyone is spread out correctly and running the bot you are good, same with KB - I was more pointing out on an individual basis. IE not everyone, or only a couple people in the LS run bots.

Backpedaling won't be necessary, but maybe you should go and reread things I already covered. Btw, if you don't need anything...but you bot to get money...is that at all confusing to anyone but me...

Also, do me a favor - be responsive, just don't group everything I say into "moralfag" when it clearly isn't. I am being pretty responsive to points you bring up at least do me that favor.

 

[Rhaddy]

Again, more moralfag bullshit, spoken from someone who is truly ignorant when it comes to bots. You have never used a bot. You do not know how they work. Why do you continue to use hypothetical "I heard from a friend evidence" in a matter of fact tone?

Absolution is proving your entire "botting is self defeating" logical fallacy to be wrong. Absolution doesn't use a server packet bot because the competition does, they use the bot to get a 90%+ claim rate on HNMs. It IS the perfect bot. The "perfect bot" scenario is garbage, as well.

1. Being in a bad spot for claiming? Each HNM camp has an exact spot to stand where your cast is guaranteed. If Absolution is smart they all stand in one place at camps to get their casts, and remove all fast cast gear.

2. Being banned is just laughable. Find me one member of Absolution that was banned for botting that set it up correctly. You won't be able to, because it doesn't happen.

3. Someone using a better bot? NASA IS the perfect bot. NASA can also only be sold to one LS per server, so the assumption that your competition will have a better bot is impossible.

I will explain to you how it works and maybe you will better understand. FFXI app is a shitty bot, so don't think NASA is a bunch of linked FFXIapps. FFXIapp inputs commands into the game through the windower on a target you've selected. It ONLY works if you can see the monster.

NASA works differently. When a mob spawns in FFXI, packets are sent to the server. These packets are intercepted by NASA, and your action will be placed on the mob through the process of sending your actions directly to the server. This way, there is no error. Upon the monster popping, NASA automatically sets your delays and sends packets through each character at specific intervals, so close to the point where your competition needs to cast at perfect times to get claims.

Point being: NASA is the perfect bot. Have I said it enough yet? The competition is not really considered competition to someone with a server packet bot. I never claimed the only way in this game to make gil(and subsequently real money) was through botting. It is simply the way I choose to do it, and that's about it. I only really made the RMT jab because I know how much it sets QCDN off. However, if you would like to continue acting as if you know how bots and botting works, be my guest.




I will also point out that I should have been more clear when saying I do not need anything. I really meant to bring up the fact that a bot is not making up for my insinuated short comings, and is certainly not going to give me anything I don't already have besides money. Commence the backpedaling.

wat do moralz haf 2 do wit how a bot werkz

 

[Courtney]

I still think it's a hell of a lot of money to pay for a couple of Riddills...

 

[Rhaddy]

I think you can appreciate this Mr. "Every time you post insinuating I'm in Absolution, I laugh at your inability to read. You truly are a moron." I didn't say it, you did...moron?

No, you.

Also, do me a favor - be responsive, just don't group everything I say into "moralfag" when it clearly isn't. I am being pretty responsive to points you bring up at least do me that favor.

Oh, you're so cute Mattaru.

 

[bigbroon]

Every time you post insinuating I'm in Absolution, I laugh at your inability to read. You truly are a moron.

I've brought plenty of evidence and concrete data to this. I've made REAL money by breaking a moral code in a video game. The only evidence anyone has brought up is Mattaru, who is basically trying to attach my "moral wrongdoings" to psychological conjecture, that is so close to being a logical fallacy it might as well be considered such.

Also, if you've been paying attention, I've never said botting was right. I know it's not right. It's breaking the rules. What I came to defend was the fact that botting=no real life, and then it's been turned off course but illiterate dumbfucks like yourself that are trying to my words a different meaning.

You bot. Absolution bot. It doesn't matter if you're in their linkshell or not, you're the same as them. I clump all the morons together, and you'd fit right in with them.

If you had been paying attention, you'd realise that I haven't been "trying to your words into a different meaning. I'm just outlining how much of a fucking moron you are. Not much effort has been required, as your own posts have done a pretty good job of it. Nobody said the fact you bot = you have no RL. What people have said is that you do bot, and you have no real life. They're quite different if you take your own advice and read what people are saying.

I know, it's a stretch from "lalala I'm doing a bad thing and I make dolla from it, suck ma balls" to actually reading what other people say, but I'm sure you can manage it.

 

[Crumpet]

You bot. Absolution bot. It doesn't matter if you're in their linkshell or not, you're the same as them. I clump all the morons together, and you'd fit right in with them.

If you had been paying attention, you'd realise that I haven't been "trying to your words into a different meaning. I'm just outlining how much of a fucking moron you are. Not much effort has been required, as your own posts have done a pretty good job of it. Nobody said the fact you bot = you have no RL. What people have said is that you do bot, and you have no real life. They're quite different if you take your own advice and read what people are saying.

I know, it's a stretch from "lalala I'm doing a bad thing and I make dolla from it, suck ma balls" to actually reading what other people say, but I'm sure you can manage it.

not defending Mansin, but you do realise that every linkshell is bound to have someone that bots even if they don't know about it?

 

[Mirewen]

This flame has so many different flames in it, I lost count.

I actually had to look at the title again to remember what the actual flame was about.

How is a game fun when you cheat? I've never really understood this.

 

[Zoolander]

How is a game fun when you cheat? I've never really understood this.

This seems to be a common misconception people have. You all love to throw around that claiming does not equal skill and that any idiot can claim, botting is just an extension of that view. It is taking one of the biggest negatives about this game, claiming, and makes it less random and less of a negative.

How is a game fun when you cheat? Because botting doesn't play the game for you or change the actual fights at all. If it were some cheat like instant head shot in a first person shooter or casted Utsusemi for you then yea...the fun is kind of taken away. (Honestly, these new windower plugins should be causing more of an uproar than any bot. They are getting very close to crossing a line as far as affecting game play...spellcast is just ridiculous.)

However, one can make a very good arguement that people bot BECAUSE they want to have fun. Most people in this game would agree that fighting HNMs is fun, I know it was far and away my favorite part of this game. Of course, you cannot always fight HNMs whenever you want to. You have to get the claim on the HNMs to fight the HNMs. Using a point many people around here love to use, this is just a game that you play for fun. As such, many rational people will do what they can to maximize that fun, since that is what they are here for, right? If more claims for a group of people would translate into more fun, then it would be rational for them to do what they can to maximize their fun in-game.

This is of course selfish in that there are only so many claims to go around and if you bot while others do not, you are obviously getting an advantage over others. Many people (on this server) obviously feel that this is a moral line they do not want to cross and prefer to claim "legit," despite the fact that there is no consolation prize for "almost" claiming or for trying really hard when it comes to claiming. There is no second place, only one winner and a lot of losers.

Any rational outsider would say that it is quite irrational for you to spend 1-9 hours a day camping kings and not do everything you can to ensure that you didn't just sit there for hours on end attempting to claim only to end in failure to someone who decided they didn't want to have all of that time spent camping left up to chance. It may not be fair to others, but once again FFXI parallels life in that it is hardly ever fair. It only is further likely to get any leg up on the competition you can when one takes into account that this is a video game and no face to face interactions occur, making it that much easier to be self serving individuals with little regard for people you do not interact with.

In the end, it is of course a selfish act to bot and you all are free to call anyone who bots selfish and be very justified in doing so. These personal insults and gross misunderstanding of botting though has just gotten out of hand. It hardly takes a scum bag loser to be a self serving, rational, utility maximizing individual - because one can make a good case that those are exactly what every human being is.

The only person that makes any case is Mattaru with his belief that his self interest lies in NOT botting, which perfectly fine and logical. For many people, botting is against their self interest and they would be better served not to bot. Its no shocker that people who do find botting to be in their self interest do decide to do so though.

 

[Mirewen]

How is a game fun when you cheat? Because botting doesn't play the game for you or change the actual fights at all. If it were some cheat like instant head shot in a first person shooter or casted Utsusemi for you then yea...the fun is kind of taken away.

I have no misconception, I know it's just to claim. It's cheating because without the bot, they probably wouldn't have gotten the claim and therefore wouldn't have gotten to fight at all and wouldn't have gotten the gear from cheating. It's a chain of events, the first in the chain being botting. If you can't claim without botting then you don't deserve to wear the gear from killing the mob you cheated to claim, no matter how good you are at the actual fight.

 

[rampagesama]

If you can't claim without botting then you don't deserve to wear the gear from killing the mob you cheated to claim, no matter how good you are at the actual fight.

Mirewen says it best right here.

 

[Mattaru]

In the end, it is of course a selfish act to bot and you all are free to call anyone who bots selfish and be very justified in doing so. These personal insults and gross misunderstanding of botting though has just gotten out of hand. It hardly takes a scum bag loser to be a self serving, rational, utility maximizing individual - because one can make a good case that those are exactly what every human being is.

The only person that makes any case is Mattaru with his belief that his self interest lies in NOT botting, which perfectly fine and logical. For many people, botting is against their self interest and they would be better served not to bot. Its no shocker that people who do find botting to be in their self interest do decide to do so though.

Going on a side note about fun is kind of silly. We all know that fun is not a valid argument for some actions in this game and it is moreover super subjective. This becomes problematic because if everyone did only what they wanted, when they wanted doing things in a group would be impossible - that is what is self-defeating. The logic extends here too.

Moreover, I can think of like 3 mobs that botting is widespread on these days and they are not even essential mobs to the game, I feel like it would be funner to just ignore them and keep on keeping on if someone is so worried about them.

Everyone acts selfishly to some degree, but I have no idea why that is a justification for any wrongdoing. And moreover I believe it is a vast oversimplification to assume this is the totalizing nature of humanity as a whole...

 

[Linhjah]

This whole "what you do in end-game is dumb" argument is stupid and has nothing to do with the topic at hand anyway.

QFT. Let's get off that derail, please.

 

[Zoolander]

Going on a side note about fun is kind of silly. We all know that fun is not a valid argument for some actions in this game and it is moreover super subjective. This becomes problematic because if everyone did only what they wanted, when they wanted doing things in a group would be impossible - that is what is self-defeating. The logic extends here too.

Moreover, I can think of like 3 mobs that botting is widespread on these days and they are not even essential mobs to the game, I feel like it would be funner to just ignore them and keep on keeping on if someone is so worried about them.

Everyone acts selfishly to some degree, but I have no idea why that is a justification for any wrongdoing. And moreover I believe it is a vast oversimplification to assume this is the totalizing nature of humanity as a whole...

I'm not really trying to justify it, just trying to provide some much need insight to a lot of the people in this thread who fail to understand the reasoning behind botting. Being selfish isn't any kind of justification, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I am merely pointing out that botters are just being selfish individuals, not necessarily some of the other exagerations a lot of people seem to label people they don't even know as just because they bot.

Obviously I didn't cover every situation and fun is of course relative. I thought I implied the notion that fun for some is not the same as fun for others, but obviously not well enough. I said it doesn't make sense for everyone to bot and thus not everyone does. Relative to the entire population, I would wager the majority, especially on this server, feel it is in not their best interest (or gain nothing from it) to bot, therefor they do not. There are tons of reasons behind not wishing to bot that I would prefer not to dig into and listing them serves no purpose. I agree that time spent in FFXI is more fun outside of camping the three kings, but that doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

And moreover I believe it is a vast oversimplification to assume this is the totalizing nature of humanity as a whole...

I thought I covered the bases pretty well, I mean honestly...I literally could write a book (and thought about doing so) about my experience and observation of people in FFXI...my post was quite long enough, no need to ramble on even more than I already had. I will say that I am hardly alone or came up with the notion that people are self serving, rational actors. Obviously this does not even come close to encompassing all of human nature, I never said it did, but I would wager most people on the planet are rational actors at their core.

 

[Mattaru]

To Zoo: My main point is the thin line that appears in you post between being rational and self-interested and selfish. When using it as reasoning of someone who bots it can sometimes come across as justification.

I believe that you are someone who would find much more enjoyment outside of these bot heavy areas of the game, so I'm not leveling that at you, more putting it out there to those who get caught up in botting. I guess it is my intuition so take it for what it is worth - the amount that some people like to talk about botting makes it seems like they would rather be playing a game called BOT than a game called FFXI. They find more enjoyment in the botting aspect, the RMT aspect, than the gaming aspect. Even though I don't bot, I think any player can come to this type of intuition because the choice to bot is always there.

 

[Mattaru]

First sentence: you=your.

I'm a whino tonight.

 

[Saocide]

Too many long boring posts, where is that chick that likes to call people "___fag". He needs all his info shown, or can I remake account with "wefh;awoief" as my name and just post the shit out of threads?

 

[Rhaddy]

Going on a side note about fun is kind of silly. We all know that fun is not a valid argument for some actions in this game and it is moreover super subjective. This becomes problematic because if everyone did only what they wanted, when they wanted doing things in a group would be impossible - that is what is self-defeating. The logic extends here too.

Moreover, I can think of like 3 mobs that botting is widespread on these days and they are not even essential mobs to the game, I feel like it would be funner to just ignore them and keep on keeping on if someone is so worried about them.

Everyone acts selfishly to some degree, but I have no idea why that is a justification for any wrongdoing. And moreover I believe it is a vast oversimplification to assume this is the totalizing nature of humanity as a whole...

Your post got wrecked by your use of, "funner." 絶対認めない

 

[Caerloc]

So how long untill someone else figures out how to do a bot like Nasa and the "one per server" deal is down the drain and all that money is out the window? That would be so funny.

 

[bigbroon]

not defending Mansin, but you do realise that every linkshell is bound to have someone that bots even if they don't know about it?

Yes, I do realise this, but the two are quite different. If I was in a shell and someone botted but I didn't know about it, there's not a lot I could or would do, because...I didn't know about it. They're just as much a cheat as the people who tell others they use it, except no-one knows about it. Absolution, and Mansin (who I know is not in Absolution) don't try to hide the fact they bot.

I already said I have the same opinion of anyone who cheats at this game, but I can't talk shit to people who I don't know bot, and I also can't talk badly of the Linkshells who might have a botting player amongst them, so long as they don't know about it. It's just as much a cheat to use it and not tell anyone; the only difference is, people don't know you're cheating until you own up to it.

 

[Crumpet]

Yes, I do realise this, but the two are quite different. If I was in a shell and someone botted but I didn't know about it, there's not a lot I could or would do, because...I didn't know about it. They're just as much a cheat as the people who tell others they use it, except no-one knows about it. Absolution, and Mansin (who I know is not in Absolution) don't try to hide the fact they bot.

I already said I have the same opinion of anyone who cheats at this game, but I can't talk shit to people who I don't know bot, and I also can't talk badly of the Linkshells who might have a botting player amongst them, so long as they don't know about it. It's just as much a cheat to use it and not tell anyone; the only difference is, people don't know you're cheating until you own up to it.

I was in Insurrection with Mansin for several months and I had no idea he botted until this thread =/