Active duty soldier. Family faces deportation.

[Darkdante]

I apologize as well.

As for the quote: I don't think I butchered it enough to change it's meaning. If anybody wants to argue that, go ahead, but no point in merely arguing my changing the position of the sentences when the meaning is still the same.

And while I do agree he's made a sacrifice, let me explain my view. Lets follow the events as they happened.

Gonzalez enters the USA legally with his family. The Military allows him to join as a green-card sailor even though he is not a citizen. In 2005 he gets granted citizenship.

In my opinion right here he is deep in debt to the USA, the USA is granting him benefits and rights and he is not even a citizen yet. There is no way he'd have this kind of life in his country.

He gets deployed 3 times. I'd say here he is about even, with the USA. He's been given a life he'd never have, he was given a job before he was a citizen, with this job if he sticks with it he will probably be given retirement and medical benefits that most you you will never have, and finally he was given citizenship.

Now lets look at his wife. She gets granted political asylum as a war refugee and enters our country. I see this debt here, never being paid. How can you pay for that other than legally becoming a productive citizen and contributing to America's future? As long as it's done legally.........

As it is this guy who now is about even or in my opinion still in debt to the USA for all he's getting in return is now asking for more. He's asking for handouts that I don't see he deserves, we already have given so much to these people and still they ask for things they could simply get on their own with time. I see America being taken advantage of here.

Had he been an American citizen like Lews here, and wanted to marry an immigrant wife, I"D SAY SURE. But he's not, he was granted citizenship, and now he's trying to say as payment for his service we owe it to him to make his family citizens also.

I don't think we owe him anything, we've already given him a life a thousand times better than the one he had, or would have ever had. Hell he has a life that might be better than some of yours already. And now he's asking for more?

 

[Almiras]

I'm a Marine currently serving overseas on active duty and it deeply saddens me that something of this sort could happen to a fellow service member.

Situations like these speak volumes of the type of times we live in.

We're fighting a war that's costing tax payers billions upon billions of dollars to liberate and bring freedom to a country that doesnt even care about it's own people, even STILL.

But we cannot grant citizenship to the wife and child of our own brother-in-arms who has served 3 tours in that same war?

Helping this Sailor and his family will cost the government nothing compared what it's costing us to fight for those ungrateful bastards in the middle east.

 

[Almiras]

[insert some valid points here, and then a bunch of bullshit.

This man has done far more for this country than you will ever do. Who are you to say what he does and does not deserve?

What have you done for this country?

 

[Darkdante]

This man has done far more for this country than you will ever do. Who are you to say what he does and does not deserve?

What have you done for this country?

I pay the taxes that he uses. And if it's anything like what Lews detailed out there, I pay more in taxes every year than you folks make in that year. And I know for a fact, that the money you get is worth alot more than a working class person making the same. After all a working class person has bills.

In my opinion there are enough people who can soilder in this country, we don't need to import them in, and if they do get in, we don't owe them anything else. Period.

They should go back to the country they were born in, if they want handouts. We have our own beggers right here in America, we don't need anymore.

 

[Lucki]

And if it's anything like what Lews detailed out there, I pay more in taxes every year than you folks make in that year.

im curious... but how much do you pay in taxes :16suspect1:

 

[Tristam Green]

I pay the taxes that he uses. And if it's anything like what Lews detailed out there, I pay more in taxes every year than you folks make in that year.

I highly doubt that.

And I know for a fact, that the money you get is worth alot more than a working class person making the same. After all a working class person has bills.

Soldiers have bills, dude.

In my opinion there are enough people who can soilder in this country, we don't need to import them in, and if they do get in, we don't owe them anything else. Period.

They should go back to the country they were born in, if they want handouts. We have our own beggers right here in America, we don't need anymore.

Actually, we do. We, along with our government owe any person something if they take the correct routes to get into the military or into government services. We owe it to those person to give them their dues, since they paid a hefty price to get there. Becoming a citizen isn't exacty a walk in the park, you know.

 

[Darkdante]

I highly doubt that.

Yes because poor people think everybody else is poor like them, unless they share their financial data with them, or they see you driving a hot car.

I can understand dude, I was in your shoes.

I can also tell you with a fact that their are more people who make that kind of money then you think. YOu can't even consider those kinds of people rich, I'd say they are average, maybe even a little above average, especially when you consider the price of a house in certain places, and the cost of living in those same places. It goes without question people get paid more there.

Doesn't change the fact that those so-called rich people get raped with taxes.

Soldiers have bills, dude.

Really? Same bills working class people have?

Actually, we do. We, along with our government owe any person something if they take the correct routes to get into the military or into government services. We owe it to those person to give them their dues, since they paid a hefty price to get there. Becoming a citizen isn't exacty a walk in the park, you know.

I never said it was a walk in the park. But they got what they wanted, we don't owe them anything else, this is not welfare America............. well it shouldn't be.

 

[Tristam Green]

Yes because poor people think everybody else is poor like them, unless they share their financial data with them.

I can understand dude, I was in your shoes.

What shoes, Dante? I would like you to enlighten everyone who reads this thread about what shoes I am in, since you evidently know me.

If you aren't prepared to quantify your responses, then don't give them. I don't claim to make any more or less than anyone here, in FFXI, or on the Internet in general. The only fact you or anyone else know can be determined by deduction: that I make enough money to somehow be able to access the Internet.

I can also tell you with a fact that their are more people who make that kind of money then you think. YOu can't even consider those kinds of people rich, I'd say they are average, maybe even a little above average, especially when you consider the price of a house in certain places, and the cost of living in those same places. It goes without question people get paid more there.

Doesn't change the fact that those so-called rich people get raped with taxes.

It does go without question that people get paid different levels of income in different areas. What doesn't go without saying is that those persons are fortunate, but that fortune comes at a cost. Higher house payments, higher taxes (not just income, mind you), and the like. It is an attempt to level the playing field. A sad attempt, but an attempt nonetheless.

Don't believe for a minute that anyone gets "raped" by taxes in this country.

Really? Same bills working class people have?

Hardly anything you've ever said in the short time I've had the displeasure of knowing you pisses me off more than this.

I'm imagining you've said, at least once in your life "soldiers, sailors and airmen only join the service because they can't get a 'real job'."

Your remarks, like your attitude, sickens me.

 

[Darkdante]

What shoes, Dante? I would like you to enlighten everyone who reads this thread about what shoes I am in, since you evidently know me.

The shoes that assumes everybody who says they make money is lying until proving to you otherwise.

The poor shoes. I used to wear those, and said the same things, actually I used the exact same words.

Don't believe for a minute that anyone gets "raped" by taxes in this country.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Hardly anything you've ever said in the short time I've had the displeasure of knowing you pisses me off more than this.

This too, all too familier.

I'm imagining you've said, at least once in your life "soldiers, sailors and airmen only join the service because they can't get a 'real job'."

Your remarks, like your attitude, sickens me.

Because your using blanket statements when I"m not. Take some time and think about things instead of explosively reacting to things like you normally do, and maybe you will understand.

 

[Trippyhippy]

Not really much to think about, you aren't explaining yourself and what you are saying is making you look like a smug asshole.

You really need to think about what you say a bit more before you hit the "post" button.

Are you trying to say that a citizen that was born here should have more rights than someone that became a citizen later in life? Because that's what it sounds like. What you don't realize is that they are both citizens. the same rights should be afforded to all citizens reguardless of wether or not you were lucky enough to be born in this country.

 

[Darkdante]

Not really much to think about, you aren't explaining yourself and what you are saying is making you look like a smug asshole.

You really need to think about what you say a bit more before you hit the "post" button.

Are you trying to say that a citizen that was born here should have more rights than someone that became a citizen later in life? Because that's what it sounds like. What you don't realize is that they are both citizens. the same rights should be afforded to all citizens reguardless of wether or not you were lucky enough to be born in this country.

How did this conversation get started? Because some asshole on the news is crying that this country "owes" him something that clearly it does not. I've stated the reason's why I think so.

I state my opinion and now I have clueless assholes attacking me left and right. Which is fine with me.

The same rights are afforded to citizens born, and to citizens granted. But we have this guy asking for "exceptions". If I were to grant "exceptions" I"m gonna look at the whole problem. Meaning I'm going to compare his situation to others.

The last thing I want is for immigrants to think serving in the military is a free pass for the rest of their family to "enter America".

That is wrong, our military is not the "immigration service of America".

edit: And your right, I am a smug asshole. But that has always been a fact.

 

[Trippyhippy]

How did this conversation get started? Because some asshole on the news is crying that this country "owes" him something that clearly it does not. I've stated the reason's why I think so.

There is a big difference between "crying because someone owes you something" and "not wanting your family deported to columbia where there is a big fucking war". Just because you choose to be an asshole about it doesn't make him wrong. If you were in his situation, you'd do whatever it took to keep your family safe.

I state my opinion and now I have clueless assholes attacking me left and right. Which is fine with me.

Now that is the pot calling the stainless steel kettle black. There is only one clueless asshole between the two of us.

The same rights are afforded to citizens born, and to citizens granted. But we have this guy asking for "exceptions". If I were to grant "exceptions" I"m gonna look at the whole problem. Meaning I'm going to compare his situation to others.

As I pointed out earlier, it is not an exception.

In removal proceedings (deportation) in front of an immigration judge, cancellation of removal is a form of relief that is available for certain long-time residents of the United States. It allows a person being faced with the threat of removal to obtain permanent residence if that person: (1) has been physically present in the U.S. for at least ten years, (2) has had good moral character during that period, (3) has not been convicted of certain crimes, and (4) can show that removal would result in exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to his or her US citizen/permanent resident spouse, children, or parent. This form of relief is only available when a person is served with a Notice to Appear (like a civil summons) to appear in the proceedings in the Immigration Court. Many persons have received their green cards in this way even though removal or deportation was looming.

These people will not be made to leave America, and they will be staying and obeying the law at the same time. So what is your whiney ass, bullshit, crybaby opinion now?

The last thing I want is for immigrants to think serving in the military is a free pass for the rest of their family to "enter America".

If you have the skills to serve in the military, come on over. That means he speaks English, is extremely disciplined and is not opposed to working hard to help out the country of which he has earned citizenship. If you want to call having his wife and kid not be deported a right he does not deserve, fine. In response to that, I'd call you an asshole who isn't fit to have any say in the matter.

That is wrong, our military is not the "immigration service of America".

We are talking about 2 people. Wife and child. Not his entire family tree.

edit: And your right, I am a smug asshole. But that has always been a fact.

Yeah, just like some republican politicians I know. Get over yourself and try to learn how to look at things from a different point of view.

 

[Darkdante]

There is a big difference between "crying because someone owes you something" and "not wanting your family deported to columbia where there is a big fucking war". Just because you choose to be an asshole about it doesn't make him wrong. If you were in his situation, you'd do whatever it took to keep your family safe.

Just because there is war in a country should that matter now if we are deporting that person? So now nobody can be deported to Africa, nobody can be deported to Iraq, nobody can be deported to Korea.

Just because there is a "big fucking war" in your country does mean it's ok to be an illegal immigrant here? And anyway your exaggration of "big fucking war" is pretty obvious, there is violence yes, "big fucking war" no. She isn't even from columbia, its GUATEMALA. Even Bush visits there, no big fucking war there right now.

And yes I would do whatever it took, and that would make me right in my families eyes. But not to America. If he wants to join America then he should embrace our values, not try to use the media to his advantage, create a firestorm merely to get his way, and to hell with the laws of the country he's trying to get his family in.

Now that is the pot calling the stainless steel kettle black. There is only one clueless asshole between the two of us.

The assumption being of course that I was talking about you. Which I wasn't. You asked, I gave an answer. Had the clueless assholes asked like you did instead of throwing out the moronic answer like "what have you done for your country".

Then maybe I would have gave the same answer I gave you which would get a discussion started. But no they choose to fling shit.

As I pointed out earlier, it is not an exception.

It IS an exception because of the way he is trying to go about doing it. If this was left in court and done the legal way. Ok. Fine. No arguement.

Too bad he brought it too the media where people could voice an opinion of this "poor me" show.

In removal proceedings (deportation) in front of an immigration judge, cancellation of removal is a form of relief that is available for certain long-time residents of the United States. It allows a person being faced with the threat of removal to obtain permanent residence if that person: (1) has been physically present in the U.S. for at least ten years, (2) has had good moral character during that period, (3) has not been convicted of certain crimes, and (4) can show that removal would result in exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to his or her US citizen/permanent resident spouse, children, or parent. This form of relief is only available when a person is served with a Notice to Appear (like a civil summons) to appear in the proceedings in the Immigration Court. Many persons have received their green cards in this way even though removal or deportation was looming.

Exactly why go to the media and make a big scene? To try to embarass the USA into getting what he wants? He could have gotten what he wanted by presenting his case to the judge. But he choose to play hardball.

This could be seen as extortion. "Give me what I want or I sick the public on you".

Look at the facts, the facts you keep posting. It's obvious he doesn't need to go to the media and play the "poor me" card, he has plenty of options to play that you've detailed.

Why doesn't he do it?

If you have the skills to serve in the military, come on over. That means he speaks English, is extremely disciplined and is not opposed to working hard to help out the country of which he has earned citizenship. If you want to call having his wife and kid not be deported a right he does not deserve, fine. In response to that, I'd call you an asshole who isn't fit to have any say in the matter.

There is no right like that. Period.

All I did was tell you like it is, vs how he wants it.

We are talking about 2 people. Wife and child. Not his entire family tree.

And what about all the other illegal immigrants in this country? After this do we all send the message that if you serve in the army, then bring your families over and to hell with America's Immigration laws?

Yeah, just like some republican politicians I know. Get over yourself and try to learn how to look at things from a different point of view.

Why must you always label me like it matters? And you always say that when I'm answering other people. Has it ever occured to you maybe they have not asked the right question?

I don't give handouts, if you want the right answer ask the right question. You throw mud at me I throw it right back.

 

[Tristam Green]

I'm not responding line-by-line to the last Danteism, because I'd be here all day.

Because your using blanket statements when I"m not. Take some time and think about things instead of explosively reacting to things like you normally do, and maybe you will understand.

Who used a blanket statement? You said "the same taxes as working-class people?" which, by any method of reasoning, would lend itself to saying that military folk are not working-class people. I got news, man. Every person who actually makes it in the U.S. Military works just as much, if not a hell of a lot more, than any person with the same level of success in the private sector.

I can tolerate nasty remarks all day long, but that kind of mentality is repugnant, and I will say with full conviction that you can take your own advice, and either thank those in the service, or get out.

Look at the bolded things below, Dante, and take your foot out of your mouth.

The assumption being of course that I was talking about you. Which I wasn't. You asked, I gave an answer. Had the clueless assholes asked like you did instead of throwing out the moronic answer like "what have you done for your country".

Then maybe I would have gave the same answer I gave you which would get a discussion started. But no they choose to fling shit.

Hello, irony.

 

[Darkdante]

Tristam you really are simply too stupid to follow a conversation so don't even try.

 

[Tristam Green]

I state my opinion and now I have clueless assholes attacking me left and right. Which is fine with me.

edit: And your right, I am a smug asshole. But that has always been a fact.

Tristam you really are simply too stupid to follow a conversation so don't even try.

Sure I am, Dante. Sure I am.

I have been following the rantings of a very angry American (who still hasn't stated why) who is of this mindset:

Hey, I used to be poor. I made myself some money, so by rights it's now my turn to try and shit on the little guy because he doesn't have money.

Andrew Carnegie would be turning in his grave. This whole "money" horseshit isn't part of the conversation here; you attempted to make it part of the convo.

Likewise, it seems all you can offer to the discussion is a piss-poor, nearly authoritarian stance on immigration in general, and resorting to insulting members of the community when we don't see it your way.

Truly, it boils down to this:

You really need to think about what you say a bit more before you hit the "post" button.

Follow what I am saying?

 

[Darkdante]

Follow what I am saying?

You need Trippy to speak for you because your words hold no weight on their own?

But I already knew that! :spiteful:

 

[Rage]

If you hate the US then get the fuck out.

Not everyone on here is American, fool.

 

[Ravic]

Not everyone on here is American, fool.

And yet the person he is talking to is. Funny how that works out.

 

[Novolo]

some shits unfair but i you belive the the united states is becomming a shitty place think again i met a kid from Africa while i was in BMT he joined the American Military to get an education and to get away from shit, hes seen more messed up stuff than alot of us have, he left his mom back in africa and hasnt talked to her for almost a year, so if you think our country is messed up look at this kid, he left his country and came to defend ours, i think that shows you how messed up you are, other countries citizens are willing to protect us and you arent.... *sigh*

*EDIT*
oh and i didnt read the rest of the post i only read the first few, it pisses me off that i defend the people of this country and still some of them hate it...