Adjustments of the Job Persuasion! (06/17/2010)

[Divinius]

It may be placebo-effect, but the bar-element spells do seem to actually help with resistances on status effects somewhat. I have no idea what element Amnesia is though. We will probably be able to tell that based on the element of Baramnesra. If it's light or dark (which it probably is) you're still hosed.

 

[Zaltana]

I seem to remember that combining a "barstatus" spell with the corresponding "barelement" would yield noticeable returns... course I haven't done that in a while and it may just be wishful remembering. But, assuming that is correct it would depend on what element Amnesia corresponds to.

this is correct. when i helped a player with their smn af horn against that silencga spamming manticore, i had him/her (can't remember) put up baraera and barsilence. the mobs spell landed less then half the time. so i am inclined to agree with George.

 

[Zaltana]

It may be placebo-effect, but the bar-element spells do seem to actually help with resistances on status effects somewhat. I have no idea what element Amnesia is though. We will probably be able to tell that based on the element of Baramnesra. If it's light or dark (which it probably is) you're still hosed.

it is suspected to be fire based. biggest support for this theory is that Levi seems to be damn near immune to it. makes smn burning imps so much fun.

 

[Divinius]

it is suspected to be fire based. biggest support for this theory is that Levi seems to be damn near immune to it. makes smn burning imps so much fun.

Good to know. And if that is indeed the case, then I would expect Baramnesra to be a water-based spell. I suppose we shall find out soon enough...

 

[Myrrh]

The scholar ability "Accession" does not affect the white magic spell "Haste".


FUCK

 

[Georgebobbilly]

The scholar ability "Accession" does not affect the white magic spell "Haste".


FUCK

wait, what?

 

[Divinius]

The update notes have been released... someone should make a new thread...

 

[ShomeGhuye]

So it would pretty much be a "OH SHIT" spell like Cure V mostly, but even more emergency-like. Like, if a new NM has a move that drops the tank to 1 HP, Cure VI would be useful.

With the amount of HP gained by certain jobs once they reach 99 (PLD, MNK, etc.), cure V will probably turn into what cure IV is now, and only VI would be the "oh shit" spell. Heck, it might even be VII as the oh shit spell, if they give one. With 25 levels to gain I don't think it's far fetched.

I suppose until more levels become available, your statement would apply though.

*just noticed quoted post was on page 3 :O*

 

[Wagewar47]

I'm not really displeased with the RDM adjustments. I agree with Uzor; RDM still has a lot in its bag yet, along with some shiny new Tier IV's!

I'm a little miffed that SAM got left out of the Tactical Parry party, though. Hopefully the SC damage added by the new SAM ability will be significant. Hopefully Store TP VI will be in the next update, too.

Absolutely nothing about BLU in this post! I hope they have a "Adjustments of the Job Persuation Part II!" coming soon.

I checked the RDM stuff, other than Regen II nothing really to write home about. Now if the time comes (after future cap increases) that I'm a 99RDM with Hastega, Refreshga, and any miscellaneous enfeebga, then RDM wins again. Hopefully the lackluster RDM updates this round will be the precursor to something better in the future.

Side note, I like Resist Amensia for COR, especially for Imp-killing exp PT's.

 

[K. Ishitar]

to give a bit more background on bar spells; very useful not used much because an important factor people dont consider is mob level correlation; you resist stuff things closer to your level and below rather than something levels above; the greater the level the greater the accuracy. Enhancing magic on barspells bridges the gap if you want a way to prove this try this on imps in campaign with using barfire + now bararmnesia and baraero +barsilence. The element affects the resist with the given status effect because all enfeebling magic has a nature attacked to it; once you know the nature the bar spell becomes useful in resisting it.

Same effect of using dark spells on dark based mobs(cept demons which really dont resist) or trying to silence dragon family members(never tried this so i dont know resist rates just another example) or the best one prime avatars and high resistance to debuffs and magic except their own

 

[Uzor]

For the non-WHMs out there that may be confused, I'd like to clarify that Baramnesra is not Amnesia-na. It's a bar-status spell, not a cure for the status. Which means that (assuming it works the same as the other bar-status spells) it's going to be nothing short of completely worthless.

The bar-status spells in the game do not increase your chance to resist the spell (or if they do, then even with a ludicrous amount of enhancing magic, the effect is not noticeable), they only seem to reduce the duration of the effect. And I can tell you that even then, the amount it reduces the duration (again, even with ludicrous enhancing magic skill), seems barely noticeable. We were even testing it in Dynamis Bastok one day, using barpetra... basically what we found was that sometimes, some of the members of the party with barpetra occasionally became un-petrifed about half a second sooner than the members of a party without it.

So yeah, don't expect to exact any kind of revenge on imps based on the availability of this new spell. If it's anything like the others, its effects (or lack thereof) are going to be laughable.

The only advantage it has at all, is that because the Amnesia effect is not removable by any other means (other than the Ecphoria Ring, which apparently doesn't always work), having this spell effect active is better than nothing at all. But not by much.

Its not useless - I've resisted Petrify, Silence etc. a lot (As with Petrify; almost all the time. Then again, I have like 150 MND, and its a MND-based spell) with Barstatus + Barelement. Baramnesra can be awesome with Barfira.

And like you said - anything helps, as Amnesia is quite the annoying spell.

 

[Divinius]

Ok, first of all, the bar-status spells aren't what's helping your initial resists. That's the bar-element spells working. I'd bet you'll find you get the same resist rates if you only cast the bar-element spell. All the bar-status spells seem to (supposedly) do is lower the duration of the effect after it's on you (which is still technically a type of "resist"), which the bar-element spells may also help.

I use the bar-element spells all the time. They help a lot. And even the bar-status spells help a little more noticeably on lower-level mobs, as K. Ishitar mentioned. But on anything high enough level to be worth a lick, I bet you don't notice much difference at all between using just the bar-element spell alone, and using the bar-element and bar-status spell together. At which point, my opinion still stands, that the bar-status spells (at least in the past) have been crap.

Yeah, I have all of my bar-status spells, and yes I do cast them, but I stand by my statement that they don't really do much. Their advantage is that they are cheap to cast, and last quite a while.

Here's to hoping that the new Baramnesra is more useful. I don't have it yet, so I haven't tried.

 

[K. Ishitar]

not attacking you but just clarifying for people on your first two sentences

bar status effects do work in helping resist by themselves, I have done it with both and with the element or status spells. If you solo a lot of whm vs stuff like goobues, mandies,etc. it will show. If you disagree its fine but I wouldnt want someone else to read it and think it's true without trying it (versus things near your level and not far above it so vtish? hell i'd wager IT not that I've soloed IT mobs melee style on rdm)

 

[Divinius]

Second paragraph, I admit that they do show signs of working on lower-level mobs.

But since people on here like to nit-pick the crap out of everything, I'll clarify my original statement:

Bar-status spells are not completely useless. They are just very, very limited in their usefulness. On anything of significantly higher level, their effects are so minimal as to be barely noticeable.

Admittedly, I don't solo much on my WHM, but maybe for things like Goobues, Barsilence would prove useful enough to warrant keeping it up at all times. Frankly, I'd rather just use echo drops than hope my bar spell kicks in and lets silence wear off a bit sooner. As for Barsleep, I don't think I've cast that spell once since I leveled my SCH sub. Sublimation takes care of that, far faster and more effectively than Barsleep ever could. Things like Barpetra and Barparlyzra I always use in Dynamis for BST pets regardless of how minimally useful they are. Like I said, they are cheap and last a while, so why not put them up for grins, right?

Like you, I just didn't want people getting a wrong impression, i.e. thinking that the addition of Baramnesra means that no one ever has to worry about the annoyance of Amnesia again, which is the sentiment I saw being conveyed in a few of the previous posts, and why I brought it up.

 

[Uzor]

Ok, first of all, the bar-status spells aren't what's helping your initial resists. That's the bar-element spells working. I'd bet you'll find you get the same resist rates if you only cast the bar-element spell. All the bar-status spells seem to (supposedly) do is lower the duration of the effect after it's on you (which is still technically a type of "resist"), which the bar-element spells may also help.

I use the bar-element spells all the time. They help a lot. And even the bar-status spells help a little more noticeably on lower-level mobs, as K. Ishitar mentioned. But on anything high enough level to be worth a lick, I bet you don't notice much difference at all between using just the bar-element spell alone, and using the bar-element and bar-status spell together. At which point, my opinion still stands, that the bar-status spells (at least in the past) have been crap.

Yeah, I have all of my bar-status spells, and yes I do cast them, but I stand by my statement that they don't really do much. Their advantage is that they are cheap to cast, and last quite a while.

Here's to hoping that the new Baramnesra is more useful. I don't have it yet, so I haven't tried.

No, the bar-status themselves help with resistance too. "Lower duration" is a partial resist. all status effects can partial resist and as such don't last the full duration. As such, the bar-spell itself can lead to a full resist (as you can see quite regularly as SCH or /SCH on imps with Silence). The bar-element spell simply enhances the effect further as you more than double your resistance that way. Its like using Barfira versus Barfira + Fire Carol on Tiamat.

Barfira by itself had a chance to make you partial resist Amnesia (but not a lot of mages knows this); Baramnesia on top of this will make you resist it twice as much. But as you said, it won't make you completely immune to it.

Speaking of partial resists, even stun and flash have them. But the max duration is small enough that not a lot of people know it has. Dispel, too, has partial resists. The difference is that even a 1/8 resist will still dispel the enemy, hence why it seem to have "an accuracy boost", as a lot of people like to refer it to.

 

[K. Ishitar]

you mean gravity instead of dispel uzor? which lowers the mobs eva by some amount and contributes to an increase in accuracy?

 

[Uzor]

No, I do mean dispel. It has partial resists, but its seen as "hit or no hit", as even a 1/2 resist on Dispel results in it Dispelling. Stun, too, has partial resist levels, so it can last anything from a tenth of a second to roughly 2 seconds. Same with Flash, it can last several seconds or wear in less than a second. On Dispel, if you have capped acc at 95%, you'll have roughly a 0.05^2 chance of actually getting resisted (with 2 resist tiers), which is why you're unlikely to ever see it get resisted, as you effectively have a 99.9975% accuracy on it. If you normally land things 10% of the time on a highly resistant mob, you'll as such still have a 19% chance of landing Dispel - see what I mean? Then there's of course the issue with most mobs not being resistant to dark element unless they're dark based, and some mobs simply having a natural resistance to stun.

That's not *exactly* how it works, but its a simplification of it.

Paralyze, Slow etc. are tricky like that as well. When a BLM talk about having 95% accuracy, they're saying they have 95% chance of hitting for full damage. When a RDM say they have 95% accuracy, they usually just refer to the spell sticking almost every time of the time, but that's not calculating partial resists. In reality they could only have 50% chance of landing the spell for full duration, and still have it land 95% of the time.

This is the reason Bar-status spells are often seen as useless; they see it hit still, but they're not taking in to consideration partial resists. All they care about is that it still hits them. But partial resists are especially important for status effects that can not be removed, like Amnesia or poison effect from Venom Shower.

Like Tiamat fire resist, status spells have resist tiers. That's why bar-elemnt spells are so important, as it can take you past a new tier, hence boosting your resistance further, something one bar-spell alone neccesarily aren't able to do.