As was sort of mentioned in this thread: http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=67775 I'm looking to gear up my PLD/NIN for Sky sometime in the near future. I was curious as to what a good, cost efficient setup could/would consist of. Basically all I have at the moment is my AF, Relic Gloves, and a few odds and ends that may/may not be decent.
I'm assuming from Bladewind's nice description that ENM+ gear is the way to go, so obviously Macu+1, Koenig Shield, Warwolf Belt, and Adaman Body/Legs would be a good place to start, and I'm gonna save up for a Cerberus mantle as soon as possible, but what else should I gunning for? What other Sword should I be using? And mainly, how can I show up without looking like a total fool?
Also, any tanking tips would be appreciated, but I'm sure I can figure that out as I go along.
If you're gearing for /nin I'd shoot for dusk hands and feet, then quest turban if ya don't have it and get your hands on a swift belt as well. Maybe a shield torque & buckler earring for when shadows are down. If gil is an issue nyzul offers askar pieces, hands and feet are pretty nice for pld if you can ever get em to drop, /sigh. Aurum Sabs from znm are another alternative to dusk/homam feet, tier 1 and 2 can easily be low-manned and I've had some success with doing pickup armed gears before.
I guess it's already been covered, but to summarise:
Have 3 basic setups. (There's room for a fourth if you have Atonement)
#1 Haste
#2 Enmity
#3 Shield #4 Atonement - Send me a PM if you have it, and i'll explain what it consists of
Pretty self-explanatory. You can be flexible with the sets, and incorporate shield skill into your haste setup where there's no Haste available, and vice versa
This is how and where the different setups are used as PLD/NIN:
Utsusemi: Ichi: Use your shield setup for this. Casting time is higher, so the chances of being attacked during it are higher than Ni. Also, due to it's naturally lower recast than Ni anyway, go full-out Shield skill while casting it. (No harm in putting in Haste where there's no shield skill available though, e.g. Swift belt.)
Utsusemi: Ni: Use your haste setup for this. Since your casting time is so small you shouldn't be blocking and thus shouldn't need the shield skill, so just use max haste. (No harm in equipping shield where you can't put haste though.)
Flash: High recast, low casting time. Treat this similar to Utsusemi: Ni, and go full-out haste. Unlike Ni though, you'll want to equip enmity where you can't put haste. You may choose to mix it up a bit more and use more enmity though, depending on what you're doing.
Cures: Cures III and IV both have low recast, and fairly low cast time. With these, equip full enmity and discard haste. The only thing to bear in mind with gear here is that you shouldn't be swapping out too much MP, if you are. As for where to use it, there should always be someone in need of curing, even if it's that BRD or BLM trying to get into low HP to activate their ring. Cure bomb at will, and have no mercy. In the unlikely event that there isn't someone to cure, you can make a HP down macro in order to let you cure yourself for some extra hate. As /NIN, it will be your most consistent hate tool.
Standing/idle: This depends greatly on what you're fighting, the gear you have available and whether or not you have Atonement. With regard to Sky, Byakko and Seiryu may be more taxing on your shadows, so you might want to idle in a mix of shield/enmity. With Genbu, Suzaku and any straight-tanked trigger NMs, feel free to idle in Haste. They're not incredibly high evasion, and you're perfectly capable of dealing a little extra damage, even just from Spirits Within. If you have Atonement though, you can equip full haste with some Accuracy, and go for max TP gain. With double marches and haste, you can fire off a 750 damage Atonement fairly regularly. Not only is it fantastic for your hate, but it's also very respectable damage.
As for Kirin (or any other kiting) you'll want to idle in a hybrid set of HP, enmity and MDT/MDB. Kirin's breaths can deal very high damage if you're not careful, and if you're caught in a Stonega IV you'll be taking very high damage. Until you get WLegs, chances are that you'll be getting hit with a few Breaths during kiting, so it may be wise to idle in more HP than your normal set, coupled with MDT-% pieces and MDB to reduce damage taken from breaths/spells. If you're good with macros, you can switch in a full earth resist set for it's spells, though it's usually not worth it.
Here's some general pointers out of my own experience if you're interested. (Spoiler.)
Spoiler:
Watch your recasts. Refresh your shadows wherever possible, and keep up 3 shadows as often as you can. Even if you've only lost one, recast when it's safe to do so. If you're dual-tanking (which you probably will be in Sky) make sure you have 3 shadows up when the mob turns to you.
Also, try and get a feel for the delay between weapon skills from the mob. Once you get rolling and get a feel for the time-span between them, you can plan accordingly and prepare yourself. It's not an exact science, and doesn't have to be, but it can generally be quite predictable.
Most importantly, be aware of the others around you. THFs, /THFs and the other tank especially will be highly reliant on your positioning. Remember to keep still, and try not to grab hate while someone is preparing a SATA on you. Similarly, if someone's about to SATA the other tank, try to keep it's focus on you while he/she does so. For any job though, communication is key. If your buffs are off, let someone know. If your recasts are down, let the other tank know about it.
Dia, I'd be interested to know what set your recommend for Atonement, havn't had many chances to play with it yet outside of campaign (goddamn TP reset moves...).
TW, basically what Dia has already said but he didn't mention any gear specifically. I thought i'd elaborate a little.
Ideal pieces for each slot, I've not included HNM drops(Hauteclaire etc) but can add those in later if you'd like:
Weapon: Mac+1 (60k)- There's no better sword available from the AH, Joytoy can be an option if you have Atonement and feeding the mob TP is not an issue.
Shield: Koenig(160k)(Kaiser)/Terror shield - Both good shields, Terror is better for /nin imo, i still use Koenig however.
Ranged: Lamia Kaman (10k) +1 (1M) - +1 is better, but NQ is fine to start with, you will need all the MP you can get your hands on.
Ammo: Bibiki Seashell (r/e)- If you don't want to use the Kaman.
Head: Walahra Turban (r/e- can be bought with ISP) I.R.Sallet(40k AN)- HP/MP/haste all on one piece, Koenig schaller is a big upgrade for your Ichi shield set.
Neck: Parade Gorget (r/e) Harmonia's Torque (2-3k) Shield Torque(50k) - all 3 are good to have, Shield for when shadows are down, parade for when MP is low and Harm. for everything else.
L/R ears: Hades earring (400k) +1 (1.6M) Insomnia Earring (50k) Pigeon earring (30k) +1 (300k) Bloodbead earring (140k) - all good options, obviously start with the best you can afford and work your way up.
Body: Adaman cuirass (110k) AF (r/e) - Both fine options, i favor AF for the HP+20, but Adaman has an additional +1 enmity.
Hands: Relic (r/e) Dusk Gloves(240k) - Dusk for Ni/Flash, Valor for everything else.
L/R Rings: Hercules' Ring (40k) Mermaid's Ring (100k) Bomb Queen Ring (r/e) Bloodbead Ring (r/e) - Mermaid/Herc should be your focus, other rings are good options for blood tanking /war or Spirit's within HP build.
Back: Gigant Mantle (700k) Cerb. Mantle (600k) Boxer's Mantle (r/e) High Breath Mantle (4k) Resentment Cape (r/e) - first 3 are what you should be aiming for eventually, the final pair are cheap alternatives to get you started.
Waist: Swift Belt (r/e) Warwolf (10k) Trance belt (400k) - Trance is what you should aim for, WW fine until then, Swift for Ni/Flash.
Legs: Iron Ram Hose (r/e) Adaman Cuisses (30k) Crimson Cuisses (r/e)- IR are a better piece, with HP more enmity and MDB, W.legs are great for Kiting/fire resist if you can get them.
Feet: Askar Gambieras (r/e) AF/+1 (r/e) Dusk (325k) - AF when shadows down, Dusk for Ni/Flash, Askar for everything else.
I've tried to cover the basics, and give cheap(ish) options that you can buy to start with and then upgrade to other pieces when you have the funds.
The gods themselves are fairly easy to tank, i'll mention each of them briefly.
Genbu - hits hard but slow, easy to keep shadows up as long as you're getting haste/ballad. A good place to start.
Seiryu - Hits fast but is still blinkable without too much trouble. His 2 hour is what you need to be concerned with especially if the additional effect hasn't been dispelled (additional damage can do ~200/hit). If he has been dispelled, you can counter this with invincable, however Shadowbind is the most popular method to avoid this altogether, just hope nobody breaks it early!
Suzaku - Has some nasty TP moves, but they can be blinked, be sure to know your recast timers to get shadows back up asap. Chainspell is his 2hour, which can cause a wipe if not dealt with, several options here, the pld can eat it with a fire resist setup while the alliance stands out of range, you can have a rdm/blm ES silence it (least reliable method imo) or, most popular is to have a rdm/drk chainspell stun him. I'll go over a fire resist set at the bottom of the post incase this is what you decide to do.
Byakko - This is one i personally hate, his triple attack can eat 3 shadows in one attack round and he can triple attack frequently if he decides to be a pain. Be sure to communicate well with your tanking partner, bouncing hate is the easiest way to minimise damage taken.
Oh, and always force your melee to come /thf! They'll probably bitch and moan but tell them to stfu, this will make keeping hate much easier.
For your fire resist set, you want to reach +300 fire ideally, including Carol & Bar-spell. Carol provides +50 with the correct instrument, and Barfira adds, if i'm not mistaken (which i might be what with not being a whm!) 125, leaving you to find 125 from gear.
Legs: Crimson Cuisses (+20) (r/e) Iron Ram hose (r/e) (see head)
Feet: Iron Ram uh.. feet? <_< (r/e) (see head) Bowman's ledelsens (+15) (r/e) Power Sandals (+7) (r/e)
I've bolded the cheapest/easiest to obtain pieces with the exception of the back piece, and as you can see they add upto 126 which allows you to break to 300 barrier and will make Suzys Chainspell useless against you.
For your fire resist set, you want to reach +300 fire ideally, including Carol & Bar-spell. Carol provides +50 with the correct instrument, and Barfira adds, if i'm not mistaken (which i might be what with not being a whm!) 125, leaving you to find 125 from gear.
WHM barspells range from 86 (assuming capped skill without gear/merits) to a max of 131-132. Most should be at the 116-120 range if they have been playing the job long enough to merit barspells and get relic legs which is pretty much a mandatory to-do for WHM. Also, I've never seen any sky LS use barfire sets for tanking, it almost always comes down to binding, chainspell+stun or ES+Silence and rarely ever anything else. Sure, it can be done, but doing any of the above is far easier than gaining all the gear required for a proper fire set that doesn't get a vast amount of use for most PLDs.
I've never seen any sky LS use barfire sets for tanking, it almost always comes down to binding, chainspell+stun or ES+Silence and rarely ever anything else. Sure, it can be done, but doing any of the above is far easier than gaining all the gear required for a proper fire set that doesn't get a vast amount of use for most PLDs.
It's certainly not the only way to combat Suzy's CS and definitely not the best, but it's very effective. Endgame PLDs who do more than Sky will probably have a fire resist set anyway (Cerb, Tia, Sara to name a few), so it shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience.
WHM barspells range from 86 (assuming capped skill without gear/merits) to a max of 131-132. Most should be at the 116-120 range if they have been playing the job long enough to merit barspells and get relic legs which is pretty much a mandatory to-do for WHM. Also, I've never seen any sky LS use barfire sets for tanking, it almost always comes down to binding, chainspell+stun or ES+Silence and rarely ever anything else. Sure, it can be done, but doing any of the above is far easier than gaining all the gear required for a proper fire set that doesn't get a vast amount of use for most PLDs.
As Dia said anyone who does more than sky will probably have a set, i started working on mine when we started fighting Sara regularly. I've also found this to be the easiest way as chainspell stun is useless if the rdm eats a flare2 by mistake, never tried Es silence personally so i can't comment. I also mentioned both of the methods in the post i made so it's not like i was forcing the OP to only look at 1 option. Personally i find the less you need to rely on others the more chance there is of success.
I'm not advocating against the barfire set; however, I don't see it for sky. It really serves very little purpose and I think if the average PLD were to bring a fire set, it would be inneffective unless that was their base strategy which I honestly have never seen. Even coming from a LS that does a lot of those major HNMs regularly and is geared to do so, I don't even consider bringing that gear to do Suzy as the other alternatives are far safer, better and more reliable.
I'm not advocating against the barfire set; however, I don't see it for sky. It really serves very little purpose and I think if the average PLD were to bring a fire set, it would be inneffective unless that was their base strategy which I honestly have never seen. Even coming from a LS that does a lot of those major HNMs regularly and is geared to do so, I don't even consider bringing that gear to do Suzy as the other alternatives are far safer, better and more reliable.
How so? as i said CS stun isn't 100% reliable, a single missed spell and the rdm could be dead. I've never done the es silence method, but i can't see it being 100% reliable, maybe it is, but i fail to see how reducing even the most powerful spells (Flare2/Firaga3) to ~100 damage max is not "safe". Last time we did this i didn't even take a full set with me, fire resist was around 220 and was easily able to survive the cs while taking minimal damage. Not to mention this allows the PLD to keep hate and doesn't move the mob, as even when CS is over it will go straight to the rdm who CS stunned it, who is more than likely stood with the rest of the group.
Lavi, BW, it depends very much on the group in question. A good resist set can be just as safe if not safer than a CS Stun, Shadowbind or ES Bind/Silence. (I even tried having a SAM 2hour and triple-Gekko the last Suzy we did, which worked perfectly fine too.)
There's a wide variety of methods to combat CS, as we know. None are 100% reliable though, and different groups may find some more effective than others. It's really not relevant, and we're derailing this way off track!
How can you say this if you've never even tried it? Unless your ES silencer is a complete dipshit or very poorly geared, it is 100% reliable (I personally have landed it numerous times without the ES) and it makes all the fire resist gear your PLD has on him wasted space. Make sure no one silences him except the designated individual and only when he 2 hours simply because you don't want him to become unsilenced at any point while the chainspell is active.
I only voiced my doubts because i know enfeebles have a bad habit of wearing off just when you don't want them too, and if it does wear before CS is over it's just going to cause issues with people dying.
That's why i favor the pld in fire resist method, which i admit has it's downfalls (relies on having a good whm with an enhancing magic set for 1, which is sadly a rare thing among many) but once you're prepared there's very little anyone can fuck up.
Idk why everyone is making a fuss about it, i clearly stated 3 methods for dealing with CS in my first post, only one of which involved the PLD doing anything (and the thread was created to ask for advice on PLD in sky) so that was the one i chose to elaborate on. Maybe i should edit it to read: When you see the 2 hour, run the fuck away incase the RDM misses a stun and shit hits the fan. Or maybe, just maybe you should go and make a thread in the RDM forums detailing exact methods of a RDM role in sky to the slightest detail so people can read up on all the pros/cons from each and decide which they want to use.
To be honest though, i'm sure they already know what they plan to do so it'd be pretty pointless.
