American Flag 'Offensive'... in America

[Mirewen]

Yes but if you live in a country and don't agree with it, it's perfectly acceptable to leave. America has boarders to the North and South of it, take your pick.

In this case it was someone who had come to America, if they didn't "like" America or what it stands for, why on earth would they move there? I'm sorry but I've seen too much of this bullshit "we've come to your country and we don't like you 'making' us celebrate your holidays'. Fuck off then, no one made you move to America.

 

[Morcheeba]

I agree. I've seen more than my share of immigrants rejecting our laws and holidays as well. It angers me to no end when I hear shit like 'I won't wear a helmet while driving a motorcycle because it's against my religion to remove my turban.' or the infamous politically correct 'Happy Holidays' instead of the traditional and acceptable 'Merry Christmas'. Same shit in my opinion.

All I was saying is that it is more than possible that someone living in (even native to) a country may not agree with what that country represents. They may not choose to leave, and they may not see the relation of their job, life and love being a representation of what that country stands for for other reasons. They're as much entitled to that feeling as you and I are the anger it causes us knowing people live and benefit living in a country they are not patriotic to.

It's just the way it is. Perhaps it shouldn't be, suppose we're too politically correct.

 

[Mattaru]

Nationalism is so old hat.

 

[masterorion]

Hm... is it not possible that someone born to a country, any country, may not agree with what their country stands for?

Just going to throw this out there, but there was a huge number of Germans around during Nazi Germany that did not agree with what their country stood for at that time, and to this day it's nearly taboo to bring it up to some. I worked with a woman who was a child during those times that explained to me in detail the disgust that a large majority of Germans felt against their country, their Fuhrer at that time that wanted nothing more than to leave and detach themselves from their heritage.

i believe i used an example like this earlier, but i used the nazi flag as "offensive".
what you speak of is agreement to the government of germany during ww2. and as it is possible and very common, for people to disagree with their govnment, it is also still possible to be love, cherish, etc; your country. using nazi germany is a tough example because it was so extreme. however, it is still a good example. problem is, many people see a country and its people as the government as if it were a mirror reflection. but in honesty, not all germans were nazis. nazis were a political race that took over the country. and in essence, gave germans a bad image. i cant even begin to stress how badly germans were viewed as. but again. just because someones nationality is german, didnt make them evil.

to clarify...when bush did something that the world, groups, whatever...did that was not agreeable, there are some that say "americans are...whatever". this pools everyone to be seen as what the government is seen as. instead of seeing american citizens as the nations people. during 9/11 people stood together as a country. not because of government telling us to. they stood together for the love of the people in this land and the fact that we have the freedoms, resources, and whatnot in this country we live in.
again, i may not necessarily agree with government. in fact, i would say there isnt a single person that agrees with EVERYTHING that any government does. but alot of people in this country tends to help its own in times of need.

also to mention. in most cases that people dislike most of what their country does, they typically leave and go elsewhere. EXCEPT in america. some people will bash it till no tomorrow but yet, they stay and enjoy what the country allows them to do and have.
as its been repeated over and over, "if you dont like it, get out." but you know what...they will never leave because deep down. i would say they love the country, but dislike the government.

 

[Morcheeba]

they may not see the relation of their job, life and love being a representation of what that country stands for for other reasons.

That's what I said here, just not in so many words.

 

[Halifirien]

Yes but if you live in a country and don't agree with it, it's perfectly acceptable to leave. America has boarders to the North and South of it, take your pick.

"Love it or leave it" is never the only choice. "Change it" is also a perfectly viable option.

 

[masterorion]

"Love it or leave it" is never the only choice. "Change it" is also a perfectly viable option.

with the "change it" method, then it turns into rebellion which usually is followed by civil wars. plus, since there is a government in place, the ability to have an elected official doesnt allow just anyone to change it.

 

[Halifirien]

with the "change it" method, then it turns into rebellion which usually is followed by civil wars...

I was thinking more along the lines of slowly changing attitudes and using the democratic process, a cultural shift the way water wears down stone. The "love it or leave it" attitude has always set my teeth on edge, since it arrogantly presupposes that nothing can ever change and that this country is exactly as it was since the founding days.

 

[Skaw]

in that case shouldn't the exact same principal be applied to the "personal feelings" of whoever filed the complaint about the flag?
This isnt about having "personal feelings" in a workplace, its about whos "personal feelings" take precedence. Which i think is a debate that will have no winners and will only get real ugly real fast.

also i wouldn't think that you'd have to think about the "mixed viewpoints and thoughts" of the people in your office when it comes to putting up and American flag.

The "You're being intolerant of my intolerance" quote that racists dole out to justify their problems is the same kind of thought process you're playing out here. You're also blindly following a second-hand quote about complaining of the flag being offensive. Do you always just accept such statements made by people who didn't say it as fact? If so, Jesus told me he wants you to give me all your money. It's a fact, broham! A 3x5 flag is pretty huge, especially for indoors display. They simply might not have had the space to have it there and it was deemed obstructive.

Either way, a place like a hospital/career in medicine are absolutely the last places for feelings such as hers. Would it be okay for her to shout PATRIOTISM and ignore a dying Mexican citizen who had to be flown in to the Texas hospital because it had facilities they needed? How about CHRISTIANITY and ignore a Jewish teen who needed an operation?

Then letting someone get away with doing that, you set a precedent for other employees to be able to do so without reprimand. What's to stop a skinhead from rolling up to work at this Hospital displaying their FREEDOM OF SPEECH by being plastered in Neo Nazi and White Supremacy tattoos now? I hope you understand what this domino effect can incur, instead of raging out over Old Glory being taken down in a private business that literally deals in saving lives.

what happened to that liberal ideal of tolerance, i mean how intolerant do you have to be to not be able to tolerate an American flag (and in texas of all states)

What happened to the courtesy of checking with your workplace about bringing in large, possibly obstructive or hazardous personal belongings?

Really, this article should just be read "Dumb woman gets told she can't do any thing, any where she sees fit. Dumb woman wrongfully cries out Freedom of Speech violation. Even dumber workplace buckles like a spineless bitch." It's just a case of someone not getting their way everywhere they go and crying about it until they do. Welcome to America, home of the handouts. Remember newbies, cry hard enough or make a large enough scene, and you'll get whatever you wish! Just like a Toddler!

 

[masterorion]

I was thinking more along the lines of slowly changing attitudes and using the democratic process, a cultural shift the way water wears down stone. The "love it or leave it" attitude has always set my teeth on edge, since it arrogantly presupposes that nothing can ever change and that this country is exactly as it was since the founding days.

unfortunately, when people of this world want something, they dont want it now. they want it right now. people arent that patient to wait long enough for a change like that to come.

also, another viable option to the "love it or leave it", "if you dont like it, change it"...there is also "if you dont like it, you dont want to leave it, and you cant change it. well, stop whining about it"

 

[Mirewen]

"Love it or leave it" is never the only choice. "Change it" is also a perfectly viable option.

That depends. If you go to another country, you don't have the right to try to "change it". Many people leave their country to get away from things they don't like, why try to make a new country into something that you tried to get away from. Even if they did leave their country for more opportunities somewhere else, they do not have a right to infringe on the beliefs/politics of the people who currently reside there.

If the "change" comes from within (people who were born there want "change") there are different venue's you can go down for that.

 

[Thelona]

The "You're being intolerant of my intolerance" quote that racists dole out to justify their problems is the same kind of thought process you're playing out here. You're also blindly following a second-hand quote about complaining of the flag being offensive. Do you always just accept such statements made by people who didn't say it as fact? If so, Jesus told me he wants you to give me all your money. It's a fact, broham! A 3x5 flag is pretty huge, especially for indoors display. They simply might not have had the space to have it there and it was deemed obstructive.

Either way, a place like a hospital/career in medicine are absolutely the last places for feelings such as hers. Would it be okay for her to shout PATRIOTISM and ignore a dying Mexican citizen who had to be flown in to the Texas hospital because it had facilities they needed? How about CHRISTIANITY and ignore a Jewish teen who needed an operation?

Then letting someone get away with doing that, you set a precedent for other employees to be able to do so without reprimand. What's to stop a skinhead from rolling up to work at this Hospital displaying their FREEDOM OF SPEECH by being plastered in Neo Nazi and White Supremacy tattoos now? I hope you understand what this domino effect can incur, instead of raging out over Old Glory being taken down in a private business that literally deals in saving lives.



What happened to the courtesy of checking with your workplace about bringing in large, possibly obstructive or hazardous personal belongings?

Really, this article should just be read "Dumb woman gets told she can't do any thing, any where she sees fit. Dumb woman wrongfully cries out Freedom of Speech violation. Even dumber workplace buckles like a spineless bitch." It's just a case of someone not getting their way everywhere they go and crying about it until they do. Welcome to America, home of the handouts. Remember newbies, cry hard enough or make a large enough scene, and you'll get whatever you wish! Just like a Toddler!

ok first of all how is putting up an American flag showing intolerance? Personally I've never seen the American flag as a symbol of intolerance, seeing as people in this country have more freedom to act , say, do, and worship as they want then most other countries in the world. If you see the American flag as a symbol of intolerance, that's your own problem.

second you say im blindly following some quote as tho i believe everything i read, YOUR blindly assuming the quote is bullshit offhand. much easier to win an argument if you pick and choose what parts of the story to actually believe huh?

and also what the fuck "feelings such as hers" how the fuck are you going to compare shouting patriotism as a mexican child dies to putting up an american flag during memorial day?
or shouting Christianity while letting a Jewish kid die to "feelings such as hers"? which from i read is, "hey its memorial day, yay America yay the troops."

what story are you reading man? or are you just counting on everyone reading this being stupid enough(or brainwashed liberal enough) to follow along your post and go. "hey, he's right, putting an American flag in a hospital that's to big, IS kinda like yelling patriotism while letting a Mexican child die."

this is what i was talking about earlier about people just ASSUMING that this woman is some batshit crazy super neo-con extremist christian redneck.

not to mention the way some people take whats said, and go PAST left field all they way out into their own fuckin universe. Making a comparison between someone putting up a flag, and them refusing to treat a minority, fucking priceless man. or the bit about someone being allowed to put up an American flag and a dominoes effect to KKK symbols and swastikas. Because if they want to put up a American flag they're obviously automatically racist neo-cons right?


all your arguments are so one sided, shes a crying bitch who thinks she can do whatever wherever she wants, yet the one who wanted it taken down is just reacting to her intolerance.
The hospital letting her put the flag back up is them "buckling like spineless bitches" but them having her forced to take it down on the whim of a few complaints isn't huh?

also the "You're being intolerant of my intolerance" doesn't apply ether cause SHE didn't have a problem with anybody, (and no, sorry, putting up an American flag is in no way an act of intolerance) someone had a problem with her American flag and wanted her forced to take it down. and she didn't take it sitting down. if anyone's using the "You're being intolerant of my intolerance" thought process that racists use to justify their problems, its you.

 

[Firestreak]

I just think seeing the American flag as offensive, and trying to relate it to all these symbols which can be seen as much universally offensive, shows cynicism, but that's alright. What's wrong is thinking that the offense is implied which it's self derived. If you see the American flag and think about all the things about America that are wrong, that's you, and I wouldn't criticize you for it necessarily. But you damn well know that the person flying the American flag isn't trying to imply that.

Once that line is crossed, that patriotism becomes offensive in the same was as religion has become, there are real ramifications not just hypothetical.

 

[Skaw]

ok first of all how is putting up an American flag showing intolerance? Personally I've never seen the American flag as a symbol of intolerance, seeing as people in this country have more freedom to act , say, do, and worship as they want then most other countries in the world. If you see the American flag as a symbol of intolerance, that's your own problem.

I was talking about you going on about personal feelings being affected by others personal feelings. Truth be told, public service workplace should be as neutral as possible. Even though I haven't one grain of care for religion, should I see a Crucifix, Star of David, or a Star and Crescent being prominently displayed in a public park, police station, or fire department, I'd be quite disappointed. If individuals have jewelery or lapel pins reflecting such symbols, I really don't care. Even though Hospitals are privately run businesses, the public depends on them at the same level as government works.

second you say im blindly following some quote as tho i believe everything i read, YOUR blindly assuming the quote is bullshit offhand. much easier to win an argument if you pick and choose what parts of the story to actually believe huh?

Picking sides off hear-say is quite possibly the most retarded move a person can do.

and also what the fuck "feelings such as hers" how the fuck are you going to compare shouting patriotism as a mexican child dies to putting up an american flag during memorial day?
or shouting Christianity while letting a Jewish kid die to "feelings such as hers"? which from i read is, "hey its memorial day, yay America yay the troops."

what story are you reading man? or are you just counting on everyone reading this being stupid enough(or brainwashed liberal enough) to follow along your post and go. "hey, he's right, putting an American flag in a hospital that's to big, IS kinda like yelling patriotism while letting a Mexican child die."

I read a story about a woman who didn't get what she wanted and cried about it until she did, when personal prides, feelings, and thoughts need to be checked at the door when you're working to accommodate others on levels from being comfortable to making sure they're still alive. Is it really so strange to expect a hospital should be hospitable, huh?

this is what i was talking about earlier about people just ASSUMING that this woman is some batshit crazy super neo-con extremist christian redneck.

And I didn't assume she was, just that she's a child who just had to have her way.

not to mention the way some people take whats said, and go PAST left field all they way out into their own fuckin universe. Making a comparison between someone putting up a flag, and them refusing to treat a minority, fucking priceless man. or the bit about someone being allowed to put up an American flag and a dominoes effect to KKK symbols and swastikas. Because if they want to put up a American flag they're obviously automatically racist neo-cons right?

I made a comparison between a whiner who cried because she was told she couldn't do something, and a potential effect it could have for racial or religiously driven people to do the same thing in a business where that isn't acceptable in any amount.

all your arguments are so one sided, shes a crying bitch who thinks she can do whatever wherever she wants, yet the one who wanted it taken down is just reacting to her intolerance.
The hospital letting her put the flag back up is them "buckling like spineless bitches" but them having her forced to take it down on the whim of a few complaints isn't huh?

Either you're an idiot, or you're just not getting what a Hospital and it's employees should stand for.

also the "You're being intolerant of my intolerance" doesn't apply ether cause SHE didn't have a problem with anybody, (and no, sorry, putting up an American flag is in no way an act of intolerance) someone had a problem with her American flag and wanted her forced to take it down. and she didn't take it sitting down. if anyone's using the "You're being intolerant of my intolerance" thought process that racists use to justify their problems, its you.

Yep, an idiot. I was talking about you asking about "What about her feelings?" when faced with the feelings of others.

 

[Halifirien]

(and no, sorry, putting up an American flag is in no way an act of intolerance)

Except for when it is. No matter what the subject -- flags, food, or firetrucks -- someone will find a way to be an asshole about it.

 

[Hexx]

You simply cant go thru this life without offending people. SOMEONE out there will get offended by anything, the question is what? Yes, everyone has a right to their opinion here, but at the same time, we live in a society governed by majority rule, so deal with it. All these people and organizations trying to push for TOO MUCH political correctness can go bite my ass. I'm not the most patriotic american, but at the same time I know that what I'm able to do here, I wouldn't have been able to do in Mexico had my family stayed. You dont like me flyin that American flag, how about you go to a country where people hate the flag as well!

 

[Thelona]

I was talking about you going on about personal feelings being affected by others personal feelings. Truth be told, public service workplace should be as neutral as possible. Even though I haven't one grain of care for religion, should I see a Crucifix, Star of David, or a Star and Crescent being prominently displayed in a public park, police station, or fire department, I'd be quite disappointed. If individuals have jewelery or lapel pins reflecting such symbols, I really don't care. Even though Hospitals are privately run businesses, the public depends on them at the same level as government works.



Picking sides off hear-say is quite possibly the most retarded move a person can do.



I read a story about a woman who didn't get what she wanted and cried about it until she did, when personal prides, feelings, and thoughts need to be checked at the door when you're working to accommodate others on levels from being comfortable to making sure they're still alive. Is it really so strange to expect a hospital should be hospitable, huh?



And I didn't assume she was, just that she's a child who just had to have her way.



I made a comparison between a whiner who cried because she was told she couldn't do something, and a potential effect it could have for racial or religiously driven people to do the same thing in a business where that isn't acceptable in any amount.



Either you're an idiot, or you're just not getting what a Hospital and it's employees should stand for.



Yep, an idiot. I was talking about you asking about "What about her feelings?" when faced with the feelings of others.

ok so first your saying, having a large American flag in a hospital is comparable to having a cross/ crucifix / star of david in a hospital, fire station, police station. last i checked those are from rules of separation of church and state, not seperation of .... state and state? (yes i know a hospital isnt really a government building, but the cross/ star of david thing is because the government shouldn't endorse one perticuler religion, but your saying an American hospital, shouldn't endorse.....America?)

second your actually trying to say that allowing her to keep the flag up against some objections, would actually set some kind of precedence for someone in a hospital to refuse to treat a Mexican because they hate Mexicans?

also i said "what about her feelings" because you obviously think the feelings of the person who filed the complaint overshadow her feelings, in a place where YOU say "feelings should be checked at the door" (unless your personal feelings are that the American flag offends you huh?)
please tell me, HOW is that in any way the same "your being intolerant of my intolerance" thought process that racist use? i guess im such an idiot i need you to spell it out for me, please, enlighten me. (the "your being intolerant of my intolerance" thing is over the idea that even the most despicable, controversial, hatefull viewpoint is still a legal viewpoint, how does that apply to this situation at all?)

you call me and idiot who doesn't understand what a hospital should stand for, what is that skaw, no personal beliefs or feelings beyond these wall unless that happens to be that your "offended" by what you see, and in that case we'll bend to your every fuckin whim to make sure you don't see anything you don't like?

oh and im not just taking sides on hearsay the very title of this thread is "American flag deemed offensive in America" Im simply giving the op and the author of the article posted, the benefit of the doubt that it is mostly accurate, if that's retarded then i guess half the people in this thread are retarded then huh?

you yourself are arguing the point as tho it shouldn't have been there in first place, as tho its inappropriate to have an american flag displayed in a hospital. not that it was "to big" or "in the way" or w/e. so which is it? was it, to big and obstructive, or should it have not been there in the first place regardless of where in the hospital it is or how much space its taking up?