Well if someone wouldn't be charging a 500 K synthing comision for NQ and 2 mil for HQ I don't think the price hike would be sooo large.MajorHavoc said:
I agree there are some instances where people are greedy, but I'd like to offer these two possible scenarios.
There's not enough archer rings to meet the demand so....
1) People stubbornly continue selling at the same price because that's "the price". People with more than enough money who really want the rings can't get them, because the second one hits the AH it's snatched up because the demand is so so high. You have to literally camp the AH for it.
2) People raise the price. More money is exchanged for them. Hence, more money is earned, and there's more benefit to the economy. People who are more serious about getting the item can earn the extra gil to buy it.
That's the name of the game. People could sell Scorpion Harness for 1 gil if they wanted to, it doesn't mean any of you would get one. People would simply camp the AH and buy a harness as soon as possible. Less demand than supply. So the person who gets it is the person willing to put up with the most shit for it.
There's not enough archer rings to meet the demand so....
1) People stubbornly continue selling at the same price because that's "the price". People with more than enough money who really want the rings can't get them, because the second one hits the AH it's snatched up because the demand is so so high. You have to literally camp the AH for it.
2) People raise the price. More money is exchanged for them. Hence, more money is earned, and there's more benefit to the economy. People who are more serious about getting the item can earn the extra gil to buy it.
That's the name of the game. People could sell Scorpion Harness for 1 gil if they wanted to, it doesn't mean any of you would get one. People would simply camp the AH and buy a harness as soon as possible. Less demand than supply. So the person who gets it is the person willing to put up with the most shit for it.
Or charge a fair price to begin with you greedy fuck!Svina said:
I can say that people aren't as efficient at killing Chyme as the gilsellers were...
I tried camping Stroper Chyme a bit earlier today. I camped in one of the big rooms on the ledge. There was always 2-3 others camping there when it came time for it to pop. After I was done, I decided to leave. I had my chest key on me and needed to get the key item for the cunning earring quest. On my way to one of the chest spawns (the one on the third map, with the long tunnels and one medium-sized room at the bottom), I saw two unclaimed Chymes just sitting there (no drop, unfortunately).
I tried camping Stroper Chyme a bit earlier today. I camped in one of the big rooms on the ledge. There was always 2-3 others camping there when it came time for it to pop. After I was done, I decided to leave. I had my chest key on me and needed to get the key item for the cunning earring quest. On my way to one of the chest spawns (the one on the third map, with the long tunnels and one medium-sized room at the bottom), I saw two unclaimed Chymes just sitting there (no drop, unfortunately).
Sethala said:
Chyme != Stroper Chyme...
Stroper Chyme is a Jelly type thing, like Protozoan and the like
Chyme is a Marlboro type and is NOT the NM.
Actually Chyme is the jelly, which isnt a NM. Stroper is the Marlboro.
Yosh I really dont think you need to chase Svina from thread to thread to bash him about being a really good and cunning crafter. Luck is the biggest part of +1s but I dont see how he is being unfair about NQs. Ypou think that he is doing it wrong take leather all the way to 100 and drive him out. Whats that? You mumbled an excuse about why you wont. THEN SHUT THE HELL UP AND LET HIM DO THINGS HIS WAY. Ass.
Yosh I really dont think you need to chase Svina from thread to thread to bash him about being a really good and cunning crafter. Luck is the biggest part of +1s but I dont see how he is being unfair about NQs. Ypou think that he is doing it wrong take leather all the way to 100 and drive him out. Whats that? You mumbled an excuse about why you wont. THEN SHUT THE HELL UP AND LET HIM DO THINGS HIS WAY. Ass.
decidence said:
Stroper is a malboro type monster. There are no monsters named "Chyme" in Ordelles, I simply said "Chyme" as it is easier to type than "Stroper Chyme". But I did see two unclaimed Stroper Chymes while running to one of the chest spawns in Ordelles, and claimed them both.
Ruck said:
err yea...
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Once i start making shehei i'll make so many that its price is gonna go back to 4k... where it was.8k for one stack of shehei... thats about 24k to 32k in per hour.I dont really mind the ups and downs in nm drops but when someone starts raising prices or arrows/tools w.e then that hurts big time :evil:
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How the hell are you gonna take the price of shihei down to 4k without losing money? First lets assume you have 60 alchemy, and 80+ woodoworking, and will make your own ink and bast.
Ink - dark crystal, 1 nebimonite, and some really cheap stuff
For 12 synths you're looking at 20k in materials, and will yield around 3 stacks of ink after HQ's.
Bast parchment - lightning crystal, elm log, some really cheap stuff
You're looking at 8k+ per synth on these, although each synth is a full stack. There is no HQ, and you can lose the log if you fail. Making 6 stacks to balance with your 3 stacks of ink will cost over 50k.
Buy 3 stacks of wind crystals for your synths, and you will have enough for 36 synths. Your total cost so far is about 75k, that's 19 stacks you'll need to sell at 4k to break even, and about 45 minutes of synthing, plus the time to gather the materials. With 60 woodworking, I can make about 15 stacks if I'm lucky from this many synths.
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The reason shihei prices have gone up so badly is the increased price of elm logs. Way back last spring, you could buy elm logs at the wood guild for 2500 gil or so. Now the guild sells out of them 3 seconds after opening (literally) and the ones at the AH sell for 8k a pop. Why? The increase in the number of ninjas has increased the demand greatly, and thus they supply can't keep up. SE has stabalized the price where it is by selling elm logs from a NPC for 8k (at least this is what I have heard) so at least they won't go up too much more.
Ink - dark crystal, 1 nebimonite, and some really cheap stuff
For 12 synths you're looking at 20k in materials, and will yield around 3 stacks of ink after HQ's.
Bast parchment - lightning crystal, elm log, some really cheap stuff
You're looking at 8k+ per synth on these, although each synth is a full stack. There is no HQ, and you can lose the log if you fail. Making 6 stacks to balance with your 3 stacks of ink will cost over 50k.
Buy 3 stacks of wind crystals for your synths, and you will have enough for 36 synths. Your total cost so far is about 75k, that's 19 stacks you'll need to sell at 4k to break even, and about 45 minutes of synthing, plus the time to gather the materials. With 60 woodworking, I can make about 15 stacks if I'm lucky from this many synths.
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The reason shihei prices have gone up so badly is the increased price of elm logs. Way back last spring, you could buy elm logs at the wood guild for 2500 gil or so. Now the guild sells out of them 3 seconds after opening (literally) and the ones at the AH sell for 8k a pop. Why? The increase in the number of ninjas has increased the demand greatly, and thus they supply can't keep up. SE has stabalized the price where it is by selling elm logs from a NPC for 8k (at least this is what I have heard) so at least they won't go up too much more.
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The more I look at things, the more I'm convinced that the inflation in the market is due to overcrowding on the server, not gilsellers (though the gilsellers do contribute to the problem in their own ways).
Let's look at the archer rings, since that seems to be the topic of discussion. When Nuki et.al. had the Stroper Chyme cornered, the rings were steadily about 500K. People complained they were so high because the gilsellers were price fixing. Now that group is gone, and the price is going up. This leads me to believe that the Nuki team had found the right balance between the supply they could provide, and the demand crafters had for this item. Now that there's not an organized group hunting Chyme 24/7, the supply of rings has dropped. But the demand is still the same, hence higher prices.
This trend holds true across the board at the AH. Raw materials for crafting, crystals, NM/HNM/BCNM drops, have all increased in price, sometimes by up to 1000% or more (not an exaggeration- check the price of Forest Rope today, and compare to when I bought one 6 months ago for 6K- thank god I was thinking ahead on that one). Crafted items, however (with the exception of items crafted from NM/HNM drops) have all remained the same, or even dropped in price. I'm sure you can name an item or two that has gone up (fishing gear comes to mind) but overall, this trend holds.
The reason for this is twofold- more players playing than 6 months ago, and more higher-level players with better gil earning potential. More people with more gil means more demand, but with the same supply and increasing demand, prices go up. Gilsellers contribute to this problem, by making gil easier to come by for "less dedicated" players. Which means more people with the capability to buy those "in demand" items than previously.
The solution? Well, there really aren't any good solutions right now. One is to wait for the number of players to drop, as people get tired of dealing with the inflation in the game and/or reach endgame. Fewer players means less demand, and prices will drop. Expect that a difference won't be seen for several months, possibly over a year after there's a notieable drop in server population. Or, SE could increase the drop rate on "rare" items from NM/HNM/BCNM. More items in circulation means less demand for said items. They've partially implemented this in the case of Raise 3 and V. Claw, but not to any real effect as of yet. Not to mention, that it's in SE's best interest to keep people playing longer, so they're going to try to keep as tight a balance as they can between making people farm as long as possible, but not so long that people get frustrated and quit entirely.
Let's look at the archer rings, since that seems to be the topic of discussion. When Nuki et.al. had the Stroper Chyme cornered, the rings were steadily about 500K. People complained they were so high because the gilsellers were price fixing. Now that group is gone, and the price is going up. This leads me to believe that the Nuki team had found the right balance between the supply they could provide, and the demand crafters had for this item. Now that there's not an organized group hunting Chyme 24/7, the supply of rings has dropped. But the demand is still the same, hence higher prices.
This trend holds true across the board at the AH. Raw materials for crafting, crystals, NM/HNM/BCNM drops, have all increased in price, sometimes by up to 1000% or more (not an exaggeration- check the price of Forest Rope today, and compare to when I bought one 6 months ago for 6K- thank god I was thinking ahead on that one). Crafted items, however (with the exception of items crafted from NM/HNM drops) have all remained the same, or even dropped in price. I'm sure you can name an item or two that has gone up (fishing gear comes to mind) but overall, this trend holds.
The reason for this is twofold- more players playing than 6 months ago, and more higher-level players with better gil earning potential. More people with more gil means more demand, but with the same supply and increasing demand, prices go up. Gilsellers contribute to this problem, by making gil easier to come by for "less dedicated" players. Which means more people with the capability to buy those "in demand" items than previously.
The solution? Well, there really aren't any good solutions right now. One is to wait for the number of players to drop, as people get tired of dealing with the inflation in the game and/or reach endgame. Fewer players means less demand, and prices will drop. Expect that a difference won't be seen for several months, possibly over a year after there's a notieable drop in server population. Or, SE could increase the drop rate on "rare" items from NM/HNM/BCNM. More items in circulation means less demand for said items. They've partially implemented this in the case of Raise 3 and V. Claw, but not to any real effect as of yet. Not to mention, that it's in SE's best interest to keep people playing longer, so they're going to try to keep as tight a balance as they can between making people farm as long as possible, but not so long that people get frustrated and quit entirely.
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What your economics lesson misses is one thing: Gil doesn't appear from nowhere. Just because there's more people doesn't mean that things will cost more. The simple fact is that the gilsellers did play a major role in the inflation, but not the ones farming archer's rings. It was the ones farming Gigas in delkfutt for gil drops, the ones farming tigers for fangs to turn in for gil. They introduced large sums of gil into the game, which led to the inflation. The people that bought that gil spent it, giving large sums to other people, HNM campers, etc, who now have more gil to buy items that they want, and this is where the inflation begins.
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Well actually if you consider fishers who sell fish to NPCs... they are generating new gil into the pool (imagine there is this giant pit of gil that everyone could throw what they have into... that collective sum is this pool of gil existing in vana'diel). Buying a chocobo takes money out of this pool. Selling something to an NPC puts more into it. Buying a dynamis hourglass takes out a large chunk of it (while small in comparison, nonetheless). The gil otherwise goes nowhere. When a player quits and does not sell his gear or give away his gil, it is removed from the economy. Say someone with 200mil in gear and money just stopped playing without giving anyone a gift of good will?
That 200mil is no longer there in the pool. And when the character is finally deleted in the end, it's purged permanently.
That 200mil is no longer there in the pool. And when the character is finally deleted in the end, it's purged permanently.
And don't forget that, until recently, the game lacked adequate gil-sinks. Hence the introduction of the new AH fee, and the reduced price on some fish from the last patch (the price reduction on all fish in this patch is more because of the new fishing method, which makes most fish easier to catch). There still needs to be some good gil-sinks (such as more items that can only be obtained from NPC vendors - especially consumables or crafting materials), but at least this will eventually even things out.
Oh, and don't blame just the gilsellers. Lots of gil entered the economy after rusty cap fishing was widespread, for example.
Oh, and don't blame just the gilsellers. Lots of gil entered the economy after rusty cap fishing was widespread, for example.
Edit: Forgot to mention that I made a rather lengthy post about this topic in the Alla forums, after the new AH change was first added.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1102748791203609681&num=3.
I'm LinkN on those forums.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1102748791203609681&num=3.
I'm LinkN on those forums.
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ITs simple why their is inflation on the server. Money in FFXI is not like normal money, it is not minted, it is not controlled how much of it is in circulation. It only takes time for people to acquire money from beastmen and npc's, the only limit is time, which is less and less when you have more people playing, especially gilsellers. Their is an infinite supply of money thats only limit is time. More money in circulation = inflation.
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I'll agree that the gilsellers farming for gil drops had a big influence, and trust me I'm pretty disgusted by gilselling and it's effects on the economy. But even just having larger numbers of players has the same effect. You have more people available to use the methods to introduce gil into the economy: quests, beastman drops, rank missions, fishing, NPC sales, etc. If there were no gilsellers farming gil drops, and no fish bots pumping huge amounts of gil into the economy, we'd still be seeing this inflation- it just wouldn't have ballooned up so quickly, I believe.
Which is the real reason I dislike the gilsellers. If the inflation had been exclusively due to a larger player pool, then we would have seen a gradual increase in prices over time. But then a few people went out and bought gil, and used it to get certain items that were considered "elite". So you suddenly have a bunch of people with uber gear, and of course they're looked on more favorably for invites. This causes more people to want to attain these items, which increases the price. But not everyone can afford to invest the time to farm, so more people buy gil, which means more people can get those items, which creates more demand, which increases the price again, which makes more people feel they have to buy gil to get ahead . . .
Which is the real reason I dislike the gilsellers. If the inflation had been exclusively due to a larger player pool, then we would have seen a gradual increase in prices over time. But then a few people went out and bought gil, and used it to get certain items that were considered "elite". So you suddenly have a bunch of people with uber gear, and of course they're looked on more favorably for invites. This causes more people to want to attain these items, which increases the price. But not everyone can afford to invest the time to farm, so more people buy gil, which means more people can get those items, which creates more demand, which increases the price again, which makes more people feel they have to buy gil to get ahead . . .
