Auction House Cutting

Firestreak

Firestreak

Solid Zoid
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Jul 9, 2004
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The Magical Land of Connecticut
Well... I have noticed it is a pretty common practice to set an auction house price for an item deliberately so that it will essentially cut ahead in line of other people.

For example.
You have a pair of gloves that you wish to sell for 1000 Gil. That's the standard price. There are however 5 others up, and they sell maybe twice a day. Now you don't want to wait 2 and a half days to sell, so you put it up for 999 gil. A person bids 1000. Well, the sale goes to you not to the other 5 who have it up for 1000.

Personally I think it should be modified, so when a person makes a bid, for the purposes of who is ordered next to get the sale, it should be appointed by who put it up first within spread of people who are within the bid range. Hence, unless you lower your price enough that the person actually takes the time to lower their bid to that amount, like for example, 900, or 950 even, you are not jumped ahead in line.
 
That is foolish. If someone wanted to and COULD buy an item for 900 gil, why should they be forced to pay 1000?
 
Definetly don't agree. That is how the market works and works quite well. Prices fall when people catc other people undercutting. I thought you where going to talk about like listing for a couple+k under the "listed" price. I can not even imagine there is anyone other then newbies who does not undercutt to some degree... If they do... damn.... no comment they must not sell alot. AH is all about risks and who wants it more. And the reason you rarely see the price history of 995 is that the fie gil aint worth my time, I know I could save 5 gil if I wanted to, but it aint worth it.
 
I'm not talking about forcing people to pay more or less, I'm talking about modifying how the queue works for whose sale is selected as priority. Please read my post more carefully.

Edit: To clarify...

TarutaruMonk puts up Astral Ring for 250,000 Gil.
GalkaSamurai puts up Astral Ring for 249,999 Gil.
Now, HumeWhiteMage wants an Astral Ring. 2 possible outcomes for the bidding can follow.

1) HumeWhiteMage bids 249,999 with such supreme clarify to know someone had put it up at that exact price. GalkaSamurai gets the sale. Cheers to him. I don't give a damn.

2) HumeWhiteMage bids 250,000. Even though TarutaruMonk put his ring up first, because GalkaSamurai put his up after for 1 gil less, sale goes to him. Even though HumeWhiteMage bid the amount of TarutaruMonk's sale. Supply and demand didn't change. The bid was the same. In fact, that extra gil.. GalkaSamurai still gets it. The change I'd like implemented is... since HumeWhiteMage bid 250,000... that's the amount that's going to be paid. So look at who put theirs up first as 250,000 or less, and bam, send the sale to TarutaruMonk.
 
Firestreak has a point and it's something that has been going on a lot. If someone wants to undercut an item prices and put for sale at 50% of what the history shows, I have no problem with it, it's his sales. But changing how the AH decides what item is sold after a bid would make sense. First person to have put his object for sale within the bid range should get the sale, no matter what is the difference between the bid and his asked price.


On the other hand, as it sits right now, if you put your object for sale at 1 gil, you will automatically get the next sale. That's why I always try bidding 1 gil first. I actually got the item I was bidding for a few time at that price. :D

Simple way to make some gil if you are lucky... lol
 
Well, being that it IS an "Auction House", technically, you should begin your "Bidding" lower than the price that is in the "Price History". Then, if the sale doesn't go through, increase your bid in any increment you desire. If you have all the time in the world, you can start at 1 gil and keep increasing the amount by 1 until you get the item.

Most people are in a hurry to buy stuff, they are going to put the price they see on the last sale. Whoever put their item up for sale, for less than what the next person is willing to pay, that's the item that goes first.

I am pretty sure if there are a few people with the same item that are listed at the same exact price, then it would go on a first post, first sell basis.
 
MajorHavoc, you are right in the fact that if there are 3 items for sale at the same price, and someone bids that price or higher, the first item to have been posted will get the sale.

The thing is right now is that the sale will also goes the the player who put his items for sale at the lowest, no matter when he put it up:

Monday: Player 1 put itme XYZ for sale at 10K
Wednesday: Player 2 put item XYZ for sale at 9,999 gils
Friday: Buyer comes and bid 15K (higher then both asked prices)

Player 2 will get the sale because he is 1 gil lower, even if Player 1 asked price also fits in the bid and his was put for sale first.

What Fire his suggesting, is that Player one would get the sell because he put it up first. Of course if the buyer bids 9,999 then player 2 gets it because player 1 is not in the bid range.

Both would still get 15K for there item, but it would be more fair in my mind to do so.
 
I price based on the current supply.
I never try and raise the price higher than price history, even if I am the only one selling. UNLESS I know that the average price of that item is higher than what is shown in the history.

If there are a few people selling something, I usually do try and undercut a little. If there are many selling, I usually undercut even more.

It depends on the item up for sale too. If it's an item that sells on average once every week or less, and someone else has one for sale as well, it all boils down to how badly I want to get rid of that item.

More often than not, if I try and get the usual price or what is show in price history, it takes 3-5 times as long to sell, or it doesn't sell at all. That's very annoying, hence the undercutting. I bring back a ton of stuff, distribute to mules, and make a killing...QUICKLY. My spoils are useless to me unless they make me a quick buck.
 
Sneak, you see, the problem Fire is bringing up here is PART of the reason why an item you put for sale at the last history price takes 3-5 times longer to sell. If someone came after you and put there item 1 gil less then your price, even if a buyer bids higher then what you are asking, this person will get the sale, even if your item was there first.

Changing the system so that the person who had his items for sale first, in the bid range, gets the sale would make it easier and not penalize anyone. The buyer would still pay what he bid, you would get your sale because your asked price was equal or lower to the bid and the second person that put the item 1 gil less would get the next sale, if the bid is equal or higer.
 
I get it. Unfortunately, I can't rely on do-gooders to maintain such a status quo and make things fair for everyone. This economy has always been competitive. My tricks have seldom failed me. It's really only when there is a nasty drop in price just after I have put my itmes up for auction that I will not be able to sell.
And so...I don't complain about it.
Life is good! Hehehehehee
:D

Good luck.
 
Sneak's right. If you feel an extra 5k is worth waiting an extra 3 days, well you could've probably sold 10x as many of that item in those 3 days if you took a 1k smaller profit. And overall that's more profit than waiting.

Plus having money on hand faster is always nice :)...i just think profit gouging on the AH is a sin when an item is being sold relatively quick, for a sizeable value (lets say X MAntle has been sold about 6 per day at 800k), then someone comes along and cuts to 600k...well now no one wants to buy this mantle at 800k, and this jerk hurt himself and everyone else a lot just by undercutting viciously when it wasn't necessary. That's when AH cutting gets on people's nerves
 
Svina said:
Sneak's right. If you feel an extra 5k is worth waiting an extra 3 days, well you could've probably sold 10x as many of that item in those 3 days if you took a 1k smaller profit. And overall that's more profit than waiting.

Plus having money on hand faster is always nice :)...i just think profit gouging on the AH is a sin when an item is being sold relatively quick, for a sizeable value (lets say X MAntle has been sold about 6 per day at 800k), then someone comes along and cuts to 600k...well now no one wants to buy this mantle at 800k, and this jerk hurt himself and everyone else a lot just by undercutting viciously when it wasn't necessary. That's when AH cutting gets on people's nerves
Click to expand...

Exactly.
&
Exactly.

/nod
 
I understand what Fire is saying, but I see no reason to change the current system. People have the option to start bidding lower (like MajorHavoc said) and if you're undercutting in hopes of selling quickly, you understand you run the risk of getting less money if someone bids lower than the price history. Likewise if you set your price higher, you realize you might get more money but it might take longer. I fail to see why SE should implement whatever arbitrary ranges person X or Y might want so that their items sell quicker.
 
Veresko said:
MajorHavoc, you are right in the fact that if there are 3 items for sale at the same price, and someone bids that price or higher, the first item to have been posted will get the sale.

The thing is right now is that the sale will also goes the the player who put his items for sale at the lowest, no matter when he put it up:

Monday: Player 1 put itme XYZ for sale at 10K
Wednesday: Player 2 put item XYZ for sale at 9,999 gils
Friday: Buyer comes and bid 15K (higher then both asked prices)

Player 2 will get the sale because he is 1 gil lower, even if Player 1 asked price also fits in the bid and his was put for sale first.

What Fire his suggesting, is that Player one would get the sell because he put it up first. Of course if the buyer bids 9,999 then player 2 gets it because player 1 is not in the bid range.

Both would still get 15K for there item, but it would be more fair in my mind to do so.
Click to expand...
I understand what you're saying but it makes sense that player2's item sold quicker because it was under what the others listed...


Actually, the problem lies in the fact that player2 will get more gil than he put the item up for, not that his item sold first.

The solution would be that if someone put an item up for 100 gil and someone bids 1000 gil on it, the seller should only get the 100 he posted his item for, not anymore. Also the buyer should be told "You bid 1000 gil.. You buy blah blah for 100 gil"
 
Well it's not really a question of supply and demand, and it's not about attempting to lower or raise the price on certain items. It's simply a question of whose sale is rightfully first.
If I realize at the last moment I need a stack of food, and my PT is ready to go, I'm not going to spend 10 minutes trying to determine the exact lowest price I can bid on an item. The way the system is set up now, you're rewarded for finding the price someone will probably bid, and lower it a few gil. If they call your bluff and bid your exact amount, it doesn't really matter to anyone. However...
To the person who just puts it up as a straight number, the one people are most likely to bid, will constantly be cut ahead. The price isn't adjusting, they're bidding what his has been put up as you're just cutting ahead of him.

Edit: I'll also point out, if you're dealing with any amount of gil less than 500 G, you're playing with already your assumed risk when you put up for instance a stack of meat mithakabobs.
The last 10 sales are 3k, I'm dealing with 2.5k profit because there's 500G to put the item up.
It's not a question so much of impatience as it is that if the sale isn't made, I lost 500G and the meat's back in my delivery box.
I put it up for 3,000, you put it up for 2995. Soemone bids 3k, your sale. Maybe price adjusts around, whatever... my sale never goes through. It'd have been better for me just to put it up for 2500 in the first place to get the sale for sure.
The point is, you're no longer trying to make a quick buck. You're just trying to cover your losses, as items have a set amount of value to be created and so often their sale falls under.

The underlying problem is >
1. Too little storage space.
2. AH Prices too high to use, and the time too short with risk of item being returned.
3. A sneaky manipulative tactic to be able to cut ahead in queue.

I use this technique sometimes. For example when I'm skilling up cooking and I have hoards and hoards of food I have to get rid of. When my storage is full and I just got 3 stacks of crystals I don't need. If I don't put it up at a price that I'm sure to sale, I'm possibly losing money on the sale. Like for instance earth crystals in Jeuno AH is quite a risky gamble. Over half of the cost of the stack is part of the 500 G price of putting them up. If i don't make the sale on my first time putting up, I'd have been better off just throwing them away because I've lost more than I can make off them. And even if there's only 5 stacks up there's a chance if I don't undercut those other 4 there will be a surge and bam, I'm royally screwed.
So everyone is undercutting everyone and guaging how many are actually up and needed is useless because people can just cut in line ahead of you. So you have to assume the worst and constantly lower prices. And bam, look where we are, the economy is all screwed up by items with short supply like 1 a day NM drops skyrocketing but anything else you try to make money you get drowned out by competition.
I'm just saying, try to stabilize the auction house a little bit by making it possible to attempt to maintain prices and not be undercut.
 
Well, when you are in a hurry and decide to bid <X> instead of going lower as you might when you have the time, you're making a conscious choice that your time is worth more than the discount you might have gotten on a certain item. As much as I bitch about lots of things, I still don't see anything wrong with the way the system is currently set up--that is, I don't think the sale "belongs" to whoever put it up first for the exact amount the bidder spent. :D
 
I guess my point is, knowing how the system is, why would you try to sell for exactly 1000 if that was the "going rate".

I don't always bid even numbers. Sometimes, if I have a little time, I start somewhere and move up a few hundred at a time or something. The seller has to understand that they may actually get lower than price history if that's what they are selling for.

Example: Boyhada Moss.
8.5k/stack typically, with 30 for sale.
I bid 8.5k and no sale...I think Hmmm, greedy fockers.
Why would I instantly bid 100 gil or more as my next bid?
I bid 8,510 and got 20 stacks of it that way. If I bid 8.6k for each, the difference is 90 gil per sale, times 20 = 1.8k gil
NOT going to break the bank, but it's still in my bank.

It goes both ways. People play their little games.
The system isn't about to be revamped, so just find how it can work for you. I love the people that insist on selling for full price. It makes my job that much easier. Why they don't do the same, I dunno. I laugh all the way to the bank, and don't feel short changed if I get less than the going rate. Keep farming. Keep banking. Easy.
 
Fire, your points are good and well thought out.

My only issue with it is that you say it's sneaky and manipulative, yet you know about it and are just as capable of doing the same.

So I can only feel so bad about your predicament.


The system is what it is. If it's adjusted one day, then we'll be forced to adapt. I like it the way it is. It's competitive. I feel like competition and luck wouldn't have much to do with it if the changes you mention would be implemented.

Excitement would also be out the window.
 
It's not a question of value to the buyer as much as value to the competitors for the sale.
Being that the person didn't take the time to adjust his bid lower or higher granded, and he did a nice even number, it can be assumed he doesn't mind paying, for instance, 3,000 gil for a stack of meat mithkabobs. Now, perhaps you are there willing to sell for 5 gil cheaper, but that's not a signifigant enough change for him to bother bidding 5 gil down.
Person A is willing to sell a stack for 3k. Person B is willing to buy a stack for 3k. There is NO MARKET SHIFT IN PRICE. Thiere is NO CHANGE IN SUPPLY AND DEMAND. The buyer is willing to pay 3k, that was his bid. Why should the lower offer automatically get priority? This will force items always to go down in price even when there's no reason to. The reason becomes...
I lower my prices because if I don't I'll just get undercut.

Edit>> I'm not damning you for doing it. I said earlier I do it too. I am simply arguing that a change to the system would be beneficial to anyone who would attempt to use the auction house to sell items.
 
The only thing I see wrong (and should be fixed) is when someone over-bids, the seller gets all the gil. The same goes for Bazaar items as well.
 
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