I wouldn't buy that mantle if I had everything I wanted plus another 500mil it's shit period.
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- Thread starter Trippyhippy
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I wouldn't buy that mantle if I had everything I wanted plus another 500mil it's shit period.
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Another important thing is to completely ignore this guy, there's no reason to stack on a shitload of +chr gear for exp and if you're cannoning that -song casting time is huge. Sha'ir manteel is the best body piece for exp(and obviously so if you're not a complete idiot), and only AF+1 body really has anything over it for endgame and only then if you're using a harp.Fixed!
Just stack up on CHR and mp until you get to your AF years then after that you'll be into it enough again to pick your gearz what you think is best. Also I recommend getting the singing and wind earrings but they are pricey but there also lvl 30.
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Ya it's huge if you suck balls(otherwise get some armor that will actually help you land songs like ballad). And second nothing really matters on brd until your 75 and then people actually look at your final gear. If you stack on CHR most people think your a damn good brd (which is all you really want anyways is for people to think your good so you get invites pre-ballad2) as if it mattered if you had anything on besides your instruments. Go for +skill items if you can get them.
P.S.
Extra MP helps at lower lvls on BRD because you will probably need to help heal every now and then.
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Being able to cast songs faster means less time between pulls, which means faster chains, which means more exp; that's good by the way, not sure if you've realized that. If you just stack only +chr blindly you're a moron, you don't need that much for exp and you will vastly improve the rest of your performance with other gear. In endgame it's a different story, but the 3 CHR difference between sha'ir manteel and errant/osode/AF+1 is negligable as hell especially with how fucking much +chr you can actually get, so there's no problem at all with wearing it for endgame.
You might want to actually try giving a reason why it sucks, instead of just saying it does that like that proves anything. Faster songs = good, I'd love to hear why you think it's not. You're the only bard who thinks it's a bad piece of gear, obviously that should tell you something like it does everyone else(hint: it has something to do with intelligence and it doesn't flatter you).
It's worthless besides the faster songs period. As far as chaining try sleeping 2 mobs at once is that too hard for u with your shitty mantle on? Even without sleeping 2mobs at once it's not that difficult to keep songs on people and always have a mob ready to kill even in that fastest of cannon parties. So why not put on something that can actually help you rather it's MP or +skill or +chr or w/e you think is best for you.
P.S.
This wasn't a discussion about end game gear anyways I was giving him advice on the lower lvls (I just threw that in about that mantle as a side note). It really doesn't matter what he does anyways until he gets at least past 60 and really not even until 75.
Just throw on some CHR gear so you look official get those earrings if you wanna be a pimp grab some mp gearz in case u have a shitty noob whm at those lvls. Get your AF when you can and don't leave your instruments at home and you'll be fine. Maybe even bring some MP food in case your really scared of a noob whm lol.
P.S.
This wasn't a discussion about end game gear anyways I was giving him advice on the lower lvls (I just threw that in about that mantle as a side note). It really doesn't matter what he does anyways until he gets at least past 60 and really not even until 75.
Just throw on some CHR gear so you look official get those earrings if you wanna be a pimp grab some mp gearz in case u have a shitty noob whm at those lvls. Get your AF when you can and don't leave your instruments at home and you'll be fine. Maybe even bring some MP food in case your really scared of a noob whm lol.
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I never said it was difficult, I said that you'd be able to play songs faster so you could go out and pull faster. Any time you're wasting spending standing around in camp is time you could be spending pulling, and apparently you've never heard of cooldown before.. It's more efficient, it's faster, it's flat-out better than any other body piece out there. I like how you keep saying tho stack on +skill/chr gear or mp, but completely ignore how the sha'ir manteel has both mp, chr, haste(which you hadn't mentioned but is still nice) and -song cast on it. If you actually need the +skill/chr gear, you fail horribly at bard(guess this answers why you're advocating it so much) and the mp isn't hugely needed in cannons since you're not doing much curing unless your whm/rdm sucks. Sha'ir manteel has everything that a bard would ever want in one sweet package.
For some reason you seem to be confusing necessary with just a nice piece of gear. Sha'ir body isn't necessary to do well on bard, but it is better than any other alternative. Your posts just come off as someone who has never used one before and likely never will, so you just badmouth it's blatant advantages. Again, you're the only bard to think it's useless, so you're just sounding like an idiot because the odds that you know more than every other bard is 0.
People are trying to give actual advice, not "Blancho's guide to gimping bard while trying not to look gimp." People have already discussed different levels of gear, what's acceptable and what's the best of the best and sha'ir manteel is it.
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Am i the only one who lol'd at this?
jesters cape, Gleemans belt/corsette, and AF hands are all the CHR you need. Everything else is +singing/wind skill.
Also, ironicly enough regarding the quoted post, manteel will actualy let you "land songs like ballad" better than anything else
You can't land song like ballad unless you have like +300 CHR, geeze.
I'm kinda stunned to be honest at this coming from a 75 bard. You could sing Ballad naked without an instrument and it would "land." If you're talking about enfeebling songs (ie: ones directed at the mob) like elegy, requiem etc, then yes, chr+ helps but only to a point then you are at overkill. I promise you that a good bard is not walking around geared to the nines in CHR+ but mix CHR+, skill + & song speed (and mp when the party needs call for it). Baj is absolutely right in what he's saying, and if there's any doubt, or somehow the opinion of both Baj and myself is not sufficient, I'd suggest asking some veteran bards. Litant comes to mind. Stouter comes to mind. And I'm sure there are some others to support what we're saying.
Also, Trippy said his bard was like lvl 40. So we're talking lower level but not exactly lowbie levels. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Trippy was looking for actual advice on being a good bard, not dressing so people who have no clue about bard and how it actually works are impressed.
Btw Trippy, happy B'day!
artytime:
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Manteel, -casting time, etc.:
Manteel is really awesome for merit parties, or for endgame things where enmity isn't a concern. It's also, however, not worth however many double-digit millions of gil it costs, because its improvement over the gil-free Gomlek is relatively small, and ultimately you'd be paying that much gil for that much less important *difference* in stats. If, however, you have the option of getting one for free from Vrtra or Bahamut v2, go with Manteel all the way (though Gomlek's still nice to nab, in addition to the rest of Yigit, for hMP set).
(It's also quite nice looking on non-galkas, though insecure straight guys have been known to squawk about the sight of a bit of hume or elvaan male chest.)
As a side note, casting speed is calculated when you *start* casting, while most other stuff like effectiveness and resists and such are calculated when the spell *goes off*. With a bit of clever macroing (doable without Windower macros but much easier with them) you can therefore use Gomlek/Manteel for casting speed *and* then switch to something you'd rather be wearing otherwise. AF+1 or Osode come to mind when pulling, they're both significantly less squishy with +10 VIT, Osode's also got +10 AGI to reduce enemy crits, and higher defense (but for more endgameish stuff, AF+1 > Osode because it's got the useful debuffing stats *and* -enmity). There's certainly no reason to be concerned about the CHR on either piece, as you shouldn't be using either to land your debuffs.
Finally, Minstrel's Ring's boost to casting speed (when in yellow HP or less, with < 100% TP) blows both body pieces out of the water, and the latent's honestly quite easy - and usually safe - to maintain when pulling, unless you're surrounded by undead in which case, of course, you don't want to blood aggro them (this is, however, rather rare of a concern, due to KRT's drop in popularity with the advent of many potentially better merit camps). It stacks with the body pieces of course, but it's a more cost-efficient boost to casting speed than *either* of them (Gomlek may be gil-free but it still takes about 20-ish Assaults, which has a time cost), not to mention it's usable about 22 levels earlier.
And while it's certainly *easier* to keep buffs up and have mobs pulled and ready to kill at camp, the faster you cast, it's very much doable even with completely unmodified casting speed. Think of it less as a necessity in order to perform well, and more as a luxury for your *own* convenience. Faster casting speed also shines more if you have to compete with other parties for mobs, but quite frankly, if you want good exp/hr you're going somewhere uncompeted anyway (even if it has a little less potential than the competed spot).
Original question:
#1 most important thing is song+ instruments for songs you actually use (not like, say, lolMinne). HQ2s are a waste of money, since with macroing instrument swaps, any stats other than song+ are basically pointless. Note that for Lullaby and Threnody you'll eventually need to decide between a wind and a string; the string will give more song+ in each, but know that strings are innately a *lot* less accurate for landing debuffs. So which you use is a question between reliable but slightly less potential, and unreliable but slightly more potential. (Personally I think the difference in potential is negligible compared to the difference in reliability, so I use wind, but to each their own.)
#2, at 51+, is to use at least Light Staff (Lullaby, Finale, Requiem, Dark Threnody, lolVirelai, listed effect on Cures) and Earth Staff (Elegy, Lightning Threnody, listed effect of -dmg% when getting smacked). HQs are worth getting down the road but aren't really a huge concern if you don't use your bard for anything more than exp/meripo.
Dark Staff's handy to carry around for the hMP (temper this by considering how much bards rest in the first place, but I think it's still worth the inventory -1). If partying with a BLM, Fire Staff is the one you'll use for Ice Threnody, which is about the only Threnody that really ever gets used in exp, and one of two (the other is Lightning, already covered by Earth Staff) that really ever gets used in endgame.
(Pre-51, just stick some CHR or MP here. At really lowbie levels you can even whip out a good sword, but with C- in sword skill, I'd give that up in the 20's, especially when you get busier due to Ballad.)
#3, well, just fit in whatever other useful stats you can. For all the arguing in this topic, BRD is *really* not very stat dependent (which is why it's cheap to play). If pulling as /NIN, haste gear is good. If /WHM (when not pulling, or when pulling), MP gear is good (to a point). Skill and CHR gear are always good for landing debuffs (skill better than CHR; you do need *some* CHR but don't go overkill, +30 to +40 is fine for 75 and you need less on the way there). Gear with halfway decent defense, or +VIT, or +HP, is good for survivability, particularly for tarus. Song casting speed too, though I'm sure you've had your fill of that topic by now.
And as with any job, go for cost-efficient boosts before expensive luxury stuff. Those level 35 skill earrings *are* quite nice for debuffing, but they also cost an arm and a leg (Singing 600k, Wind 1.8 mil, last I checked). Whereas something like Jester's Cape +1, which is also quite nice for debuffing (and which you will quite possibly never replace with any other item in that slot), is only like a hundred K.
Macros: I have three macro pages (Ctrl and Alt both, so six if you count Ctrl and Alt as separate pages). Which is overkill and I rarely use two of the pages, so bear that in mind. I do, however, strongly recommend avoiding any temptation to put more than one song in a macro, because there will always be times when you want to do something else (like Lullaby something or Cure someone or go pull or *something*) between songs. Mine are:
Main set, Ctrl: Blade Madrigal, Minuet 4, Victory March, Ballad 1, Ballad 2, Elegy, rest for MP, Foe Lullaby, Horde Lullaby, Finale.
Main set, Alt: Cure 1-3, Curaga 1-2, Divine Seal, Erase, Paralyna, Silena, Mazurka. If I /NIN, I edit Cure 1-2 macros for Utsu Ichi and Ni. (Subject to reworking - Cure 1, Cure 2, and Curaga 1 get very little use.)
Up-from-main-set, Ctrl: 8x Threnody.
Up-from-main-set, Alt: 8x Carol.
Down-from-main-set, Ctrl: Sword Madrigal, Minuet 3, Advancing March, 7x tier 1 Etude (not tier 2, they tick down and are usually less useful: they can be cast from menu).
Down-from-main-set, Alt: Sheepfoe Mambo, Dragonfoe Mambo, Paeon 4, Paeon 5, Hunter's Prelude, Archer's Prelude, Minne 3, Minne 4, Hymnus, Requiem.
If not for the instrument swaps I probably wouldn't bother macroing most of those things, and would just cast from menu. But note that the non-main sets are basically songs I'd like to have macro'd but which I get very little mileage from.
Manteel is really awesome for merit parties, or for endgame things where enmity isn't a concern. It's also, however, not worth however many double-digit millions of gil it costs, because its improvement over the gil-free Gomlek is relatively small, and ultimately you'd be paying that much gil for that much less important *difference* in stats. If, however, you have the option of getting one for free from Vrtra or Bahamut v2, go with Manteel all the way (though Gomlek's still nice to nab, in addition to the rest of Yigit, for hMP set).
(It's also quite nice looking on non-galkas, though insecure straight guys have been known to squawk about the sight of a bit of hume or elvaan male chest.)
As a side note, casting speed is calculated when you *start* casting, while most other stuff like effectiveness and resists and such are calculated when the spell *goes off*. With a bit of clever macroing (doable without Windower macros but much easier with them) you can therefore use Gomlek/Manteel for casting speed *and* then switch to something you'd rather be wearing otherwise. AF+1 or Osode come to mind when pulling, they're both significantly less squishy with +10 VIT, Osode's also got +10 AGI to reduce enemy crits, and higher defense (but for more endgameish stuff, AF+1 > Osode because it's got the useful debuffing stats *and* -enmity). There's certainly no reason to be concerned about the CHR on either piece, as you shouldn't be using either to land your debuffs.
Finally, Minstrel's Ring's boost to casting speed (when in yellow HP or less, with < 100% TP) blows both body pieces out of the water, and the latent's honestly quite easy - and usually safe - to maintain when pulling, unless you're surrounded by undead in which case, of course, you don't want to blood aggro them (this is, however, rather rare of a concern, due to KRT's drop in popularity with the advent of many potentially better merit camps). It stacks with the body pieces of course, but it's a more cost-efficient boost to casting speed than *either* of them (Gomlek may be gil-free but it still takes about 20-ish Assaults, which has a time cost), not to mention it's usable about 22 levels earlier.
And while it's certainly *easier* to keep buffs up and have mobs pulled and ready to kill at camp, the faster you cast, it's very much doable even with completely unmodified casting speed. Think of it less as a necessity in order to perform well, and more as a luxury for your *own* convenience. Faster casting speed also shines more if you have to compete with other parties for mobs, but quite frankly, if you want good exp/hr you're going somewhere uncompeted anyway (even if it has a little less potential than the competed spot).
Original question:
#1 most important thing is song+ instruments for songs you actually use (not like, say, lolMinne). HQ2s are a waste of money, since with macroing instrument swaps, any stats other than song+ are basically pointless. Note that for Lullaby and Threnody you'll eventually need to decide between a wind and a string; the string will give more song+ in each, but know that strings are innately a *lot* less accurate for landing debuffs. So which you use is a question between reliable but slightly less potential, and unreliable but slightly more potential. (Personally I think the difference in potential is negligible compared to the difference in reliability, so I use wind, but to each their own.)
#2, at 51+, is to use at least Light Staff (Lullaby, Finale, Requiem, Dark Threnody, lolVirelai, listed effect on Cures) and Earth Staff (Elegy, Lightning Threnody, listed effect of -dmg% when getting smacked). HQs are worth getting down the road but aren't really a huge concern if you don't use your bard for anything more than exp/meripo.
Dark Staff's handy to carry around for the hMP (temper this by considering how much bards rest in the first place, but I think it's still worth the inventory -1). If partying with a BLM, Fire Staff is the one you'll use for Ice Threnody, which is about the only Threnody that really ever gets used in exp, and one of two (the other is Lightning, already covered by Earth Staff) that really ever gets used in endgame.
(Pre-51, just stick some CHR or MP here. At really lowbie levels you can even whip out a good sword, but with C- in sword skill, I'd give that up in the 20's, especially when you get busier due to Ballad.)
#3, well, just fit in whatever other useful stats you can. For all the arguing in this topic, BRD is *really* not very stat dependent (which is why it's cheap to play). If pulling as /NIN, haste gear is good. If /WHM (when not pulling, or when pulling), MP gear is good (to a point). Skill and CHR gear are always good for landing debuffs (skill better than CHR; you do need *some* CHR but don't go overkill, +30 to +40 is fine for 75 and you need less on the way there). Gear with halfway decent defense, or +VIT, or +HP, is good for survivability, particularly for tarus. Song casting speed too, though I'm sure you've had your fill of that topic by now.
And as with any job, go for cost-efficient boosts before expensive luxury stuff. Those level 35 skill earrings *are* quite nice for debuffing, but they also cost an arm and a leg (Singing 600k, Wind 1.8 mil, last I checked). Whereas something like Jester's Cape +1, which is also quite nice for debuffing (and which you will quite possibly never replace with any other item in that slot), is only like a hundred K.
Macros: I have three macro pages (Ctrl and Alt both, so six if you count Ctrl and Alt as separate pages). Which is overkill and I rarely use two of the pages, so bear that in mind. I do, however, strongly recommend avoiding any temptation to put more than one song in a macro, because there will always be times when you want to do something else (like Lullaby something or Cure someone or go pull or *something*) between songs. Mine are:
Main set, Ctrl: Blade Madrigal, Minuet 4, Victory March, Ballad 1, Ballad 2, Elegy, rest for MP, Foe Lullaby, Horde Lullaby, Finale.
Main set, Alt: Cure 1-3, Curaga 1-2, Divine Seal, Erase, Paralyna, Silena, Mazurka. If I /NIN, I edit Cure 1-2 macros for Utsu Ichi and Ni. (Subject to reworking - Cure 1, Cure 2, and Curaga 1 get very little use.)
Up-from-main-set, Ctrl: 8x Threnody.
Up-from-main-set, Alt: 8x Carol.
Down-from-main-set, Ctrl: Sword Madrigal, Minuet 3, Advancing March, 7x tier 1 Etude (not tier 2, they tick down and are usually less useful: they can be cast from menu).
Down-from-main-set, Alt: Sheepfoe Mambo, Dragonfoe Mambo, Paeon 4, Paeon 5, Hunter's Prelude, Archer's Prelude, Minne 3, Minne 4, Hymnus, Requiem.
If not for the instrument swaps I probably wouldn't bother macroing most of those things, and would just cast from menu. But note that the non-main sets are basically songs I'd like to have macro'd but which I get very little mileage from.
I too am perplexed my Blancho's comments. I won't harp on it, they just don't pass the sniff test.
I am in the process of getting my Yigit Gomlek so can't speak from personal experience, but comments I've had from respected BRDs have been very positive. I know I have more CHR than I can shake a stick at, so I spend a little more time focusing of other attributes.
In a drunken fog, I bought a HQ Earth (Terra's) Staff, maybe that has something to do with my extremely low resist rate. Or maybe it's because I sing like Sammy Davis Jr... Yeah, I bet it's because of that. 
I am in the process of getting my Yigit Gomlek so can't speak from personal experience, but comments I've had from respected BRDs have been very positive. I know I have more CHR than I can shake a stick at, so I spend a little more time focusing of other attributes.
In a drunken fog, I bought a HQ Earth (Terra's) Staff, maybe that has something to do with my extremely low resist rate. Or maybe it's because I sing like Sammy Davis Jr...
Yeah, I bet it's because of that. As with most jobs, it's really up to each individual player as to how in depth they want to take it. If you're not willing to (or aren't able to) invest a lot of money and time into a job, then all you need is to make it servicable enough to do the bare minimum. If you actually want to be a step above the average player, then read what Baj and Zyndara have been saying. They speak the truth.
I don't pretend to be the best at my job but I try and do things right. Here's what I've done....
Up until about AF time, Bard is all about CHR and MP. Nothing else matters. Once you hit those AF levels, you'll start noticing a difference on Elegy, Lullaby, Requiem and Threnodies if you have better +skill gear and NQ elemental staves. In general you'll want to focus on Wind > Singing > CHR > everything else. String skill only really matters if you're going to want to use Harps for Threnody and Lullaby in endgame parties. Honestly I've tried both Nursemaid's Harp and Mary's Horn for landing Lullaby and I prefer the horn. It seems unecessary to carry a +String Skill set for that one spell.
In general what you'll want to do is keep your CHR around 100 and keep both Wind and Signing near to each other. My set that I wear around for almost everything gives me 114 CHR, 252 Wind and 251 Singing. I rarely get resisted on the bigger stuff that we fight (save for Kirin who is nearly impossible to enfeeble). The only two HQ staves I could afford were Terra's (Earth) and Apollo's (Light) so those were the only two I bought. All others are NQ.
As for the Sha'ir Manteel debate -- once you've hit the necessary CHR / Singing / Wind levels I mentioned above, then you can afford to pick a fun piece like this. Not everyone can afford it so I won't say that it's necessary. But why wouldn't you want to lower your song casting time? The less time I spend singing is more time I can spend doing other things to help the party (like curing / pulling / buffing). If the piece isn't hurting your effectiveness then feel free to experiment.
My personal set that I use most often is...
Chanter's Staff (macro in Terra's and Apollo's)
Instruments+1/2 (working on Gjallarhorn)
Bard's Roundlet (AF2)
Wind Torque
Musical Earring
Wind Earring
Sha'ir Manteel (macro in Kirin's Osode for some stuff)
Choral Cuffs (working on AF1+1)
Angels' Ring (x2)
Jester's Cape+1 (will replace it with Astute Cape)
Gleeman's Belt
Choral Cannions+1
Rostrum Pumps
I don't pretend to be the best at my job but I try and do things right. Here's what I've done....
Up until about AF time, Bard is all about CHR and MP. Nothing else matters. Once you hit those AF levels, you'll start noticing a difference on Elegy, Lullaby, Requiem and Threnodies if you have better +skill gear and NQ elemental staves. In general you'll want to focus on Wind > Singing > CHR > everything else. String skill only really matters if you're going to want to use Harps for Threnody and Lullaby in endgame parties. Honestly I've tried both Nursemaid's Harp and Mary's Horn for landing Lullaby and I prefer the horn. It seems unecessary to carry a +String Skill set for that one spell.
In general what you'll want to do is keep your CHR around 100 and keep both Wind and Signing near to each other. My set that I wear around for almost everything gives me 114 CHR, 252 Wind and 251 Singing. I rarely get resisted on the bigger stuff that we fight (save for Kirin who is nearly impossible to enfeeble). The only two HQ staves I could afford were Terra's (Earth) and Apollo's (Light) so those were the only two I bought. All others are NQ.
As for the Sha'ir Manteel debate -- once you've hit the necessary CHR / Singing / Wind levels I mentioned above, then you can afford to pick a fun piece like this. Not everyone can afford it so I won't say that it's necessary. But why wouldn't you want to lower your song casting time? The less time I spend singing is more time I can spend doing other things to help the party (like curing / pulling / buffing). If the piece isn't hurting your effectiveness then feel free to experiment.
My personal set that I use most often is...
Chanter's Staff (macro in Terra's and Apollo's)
Instruments+1/2 (working on Gjallarhorn)
Bard's Roundlet (AF2)
Wind Torque
Musical Earring
Wind Earring
Sha'ir Manteel (macro in Kirin's Osode for some stuff)
Choral Cuffs (working on AF1+1)
Angels' Ring (x2)
Jester's Cape+1 (will replace it with Astute Cape)
Gleeman's Belt
Choral Cannions+1
Rostrum Pumps
LOL I was really tired last night obviously I didn't mean Ballad I meant Lullaby. I was trying to post a reply last night and my internet died on me, but no reason too post any of it now. Seriously those of you who actually thought I meant Ballad and didn't make a mistake have got to be idiots.
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You guys forget one key thing to Manteel that makes it totally worth the price tag: On a mithra, it looks amazing. Gotta look sharp, ya know?