Beastmaster: The side noone knows about.

[Lecan]

I could have made a post like this on my own, but was too lazy too. Apparantly however someone was scanning my brainmeats and posted this on allakhazam from his server forums, and because it's a good bit of info I'll share it with you all.

Bradygames has consistently misinformed the FFXI community about how BST works, so I am attempting to help correct that here.

Please take this into account before you pass over them:

- BST broth pets do not cut into party exp, only the BST's exp.

- If the BST uses pets stronger than the party (T- con to the highest level) then the party's exp will be affected. Most BSTs understand this and stick with EM/DC or broth pets only. Sometimes emergencies require a VT/IT be charmed and led away from the party, but as I stated, that should be emergency only.

- While many BSTs solo, and can solo well at most levels, BST is not a "solo only" job.


If you are wondering just what they can do for you or what use they might be in a party, here's a bit more info:

- BST often solo with the WHM (or RDM) subjob. Really, soloing 30,000+ exp per level who would want anything but? That being said, however, any melee job can fill that sub slot pretty well with the exact same benefits. I seek and have THF and WAR subs available, but usually have seek turned on while I'm soloing waiting (hoping) for an invite. So if you get nervous about the utility of a /WHM sub, remember that a BST seeking to party in most cases should have alternate subs to choose from, much like any job.

- The roles for which BST can be considered would be DD and crowd control. In my opinion (61BST so far, don't know everything but I know a few things), a BST in a party acting as DD would be optimally equipped with the same gear you would expect on other melees (generous combination of +atk and +acc), but would also be using Jug pets for every fight possible. (We can summon one every 5 minutes.) As a stand-alone fighter without jug pets (or local DC/EM mobs), BSTs aren't giving everything they can to a party

The jug pet cuts the BST's personal exp reward by 30%, but that's considered to be part of the job. Ninjas burn gil on shihei, Rangers on arrows, and BSTs burn exp and some gil on jug pets. Any BST with consideration for their party understands this.

- One role for which BST works perfectly is in providing a trick partner for THF and tank players, much in the same way Summoners do. Pet-pull the mob and let the THF and tank position behind the mob. You basically have a SATA partner for no cost at all to the party in terms of healing, or risking death if your THF happens to be slow initiating SATA.

- BST can pull from a linked pack just like summoners can. Take Knight Crawlers as example. 5 Knights are sharing space trying to make Crawler Eggs and you need to pull one. Send in pet, all 5 jump pet. Stand out of detection range of the other 4 and release the pet... and only one mob comes. There you have instant pull, link-free.

- BST is the only job in this game that can reset hate on charmable creatures. By reset hate, I mean we can charm it, lead it away from the party, and release it.. and it's as though the mob never knew anyone was there. This works well in zones like CN, Temple of Uggalepih, Onzozo, Sea Grotto, and so forth. In being able to do this, it's also possible in many cases for BST to move further into dangerous areas without sneak/invis as they can just charm and release whatever bothers them.

- If you have a link while fighting no-charm mobs, then naturally you'll need to have someone in the party sleep the thing, or occupy it elsewhere. BST in this situation can put their pet on the link and, if nothing else, keep it busier for a lot longer than it would be if sleep failed to stick.

- BST are A- axe and B- scythe. Notable WS we get are Rampage, Mistral Axe, Decimation (I think). Basically we get every Axe WS there is, and a variety of the scythe skills.

Should you decide to invite a BST into your party:

- If/when you check their gear and see little to no combat enhancement equipment (accuracy, atk, str, etc.), ask if they have two sets of equipment. Lots of us have a "charm suit" and a "fight suit" and switch back and forth as needed. Don't just assume they're entering each combat with Hope Rings on. ^^ If they do not have any combat enhancing gear, and engaged combat is where you'll want them to be... well, they're underequipped. NIN without Utsusemi gets no groups, DRKs without some kind of accuracy bonus gets no groups (or should get no groups, anyway), BSTs not equipped for their assigned task also do not belong.

- Going with the above point, if there are no pets near camp they can use (A party fighting Torama in Onzozo can have a BST who charms a Manta or Mushussu pet), they need to have a generous supply of broths. If the BST isn't using pets at all, they aren't doing their job.

- Don't expect the BST to pop out 4-digit numbers on light/dark skillchains. If you want to measure them, measure the total damage per fight from them + their pet, and unless something is very wrong, I doubt you'll find anything negative in those results.

- BST can widescan, so if you lack a RNG then have the BST pull.

As for BST roles in other specialized functions, like Promyvion, HNMs, Dynamis, etc.. I'm only a 61BST so I can't really speak to their role here. I can tell you that BSTs are perfect in BCNM fights with charmables (rabbits, mandragoras, sons of anansi), we can solo multiple coffer key mobs (crawler nest, garlaige, sea grotto, kuftal, boyahda, more), we're exceptionally nice to have around for anything in the Temple of Uggelapih to keep the Wespes and Toramas off the party, and I'm sure there are other good places as well.

I've not yet been to any promyvions, but as I've heard it's usually a distance-damage+mage party there I'll probably go as BLM. I'm not so naive as to think BST is perfect in every situation, but I've yet to see or hear of any 6-person exp party or mission event (rank 1-10, zilart) where BST can't be a welcome addition.

If anyone has anything to add, please do so. I originally posted this on Midgarsormr forum, but I'm going to put it elsewhere as well. Who knows, it might help correct some misperceptions.

Thoughts and comments are of course welcom 8)

 

[Messiah]

Never thought about some points ^^;; Currently bst lvl 7 and leveling slowly because I die so many times lol It's hard to level, but it's fun. I want to take it to level 60 ^^;; I hope some day I'll have my bst af. >.>;;
I don't see many bst lfp though >.< Most of them prefer to solo or they think that no one will invite them to a pt... >.< I ptied with a bst called Tupac long ago =O and I personally liked the party. ^^

 

[Veresko]

Just wanna add that BST can be quite usefull in Promy, particularly the first 3 zones. Of course, having a pet is mandatory. I saw a party once while soloing there with 2 bst and one smn, 9 people basically. They were just tearing throught the receptacle. I'm guessing they owned the boss fight with little problems.

But just one bst with a pet can help with aggro and crowd control in Promy. Plus, it's one more DD in boss fight, that can also take care of the spawns in Dem.

 

[Duffman]

I'm with the OP (the copied part). Oh ok, Lecan too ^^.
I just dinged 62. Now my bst is RIGHT at the same point my sam is and
I don't know if I should be happy or cry. I'll come back to sam one day.


Promy's:

We beat thier asses, hands down! That's about the only time I show up
as a bst/nin. We do take a SMN and a WHM but the rest are all bst/whm or
bst/nin. Couple that with 4 Courier Carrie (HQ crab jugs) and the promy
mobs and MR's just plain die. The BC is no cakewalk for any job but it's
not difficult with this setup.





BCNMs:

Some are geared for us and some aren't. Those that are, well we win every
time. We are only concerned about beating the record and getting a good drop.






Parties: (the point of the original post)

I am interested. I really want to be able to say I mostly solo'd my job with
a few duo's and trio's and no parties but dammit, I'm interested in seeing how
I fare in a real party. I swallowed my samurai pride when a bst told me:

"psst. tip, bst are the BEST DD in the entire game"

I didn't believe him until the day came when I accidentally started the BST job
quest. So I completed it, leveled a bit then thought OMFG this makes my samurai
look like a little school girl hitting monsters with boquets of flowers.
(please don't let my samurai split personality hear that.)



...so if you see this and need a lvl62 DD for a round. Please let me in.
I'd rather solo to 75 and duo with Ambrosio but I'm interested to see how we do.
Just don't expect me to start a static or constantly LFG. I chose BST to have
a level of freedom I can't expect from my samurai. I like soloing. Just let me
in a few parties so I can see how it goes. Hell, take Ambrosio with me too.
two bsts and two pets in a party? You guys will level so fast you won't know what
happened.

 

[Mortanius]

Had a BST in my shell for a while. He pretty much explained all that to our shell numerous times, so nothing I read was new to me. I don't have any direct experience partying with a BST, but I can say given what was explained to me that the guy knew what he was talking about.

 

[Skaw]

Yep. BST is extremely useful in Promyvions. On the way to spire, you can pull things out of a group(Even though they naturally don't link, they do have a slightly large sight-aggro range) with attack and heel. In the Spire Battlefeild, what isn't useful about Familiar? You're basically bring a level 35 crab to a level 30 arena, just make sure you've got a good deal of Epsilon or Zeta biscuits to keep your jug pet alive in the Spire. Carrie will tear up Offspring, so no melee has to turn off of the Progenerator in Dem.

 

[Aerandir]

I would have to say that most beastmaster's know about half of what was posted. So hopefully this post with enlighten some of them, and of course us, in regards to sending invites.

I guess we just need to ask anyone seeking if they have read Lecan's post, if they understood it, and if not, we can ask that they read it before the party begins pulling.

 

[Zimzum]

In COP 2-5 fight i was soloing one of the guys in it, had it down to almost dead when the first one was killed. I may have been able to kill it if i wasnt kiting it for most of my first pets health. There's been a few spots where I xp in that an xp party shows up, so I "kick it up a notch" to drive them out, or at the very least make the slow exp there getting not worth it to stay.

I don't really mind seeing a BST in an exp party. But if there ALWAYS in a normie xp party, they are not true bst's IMO. And same for BST who get PLed to 35 or party to 35 just for leave.

 

[Skaw]

I don't really mind seeing a BST in an exp party. But if there ALWAYS in a normie xp party, they are not true bst's IMO. And same for BST who get PLed to 35 or party to 35 just for leave.

So seeing a BST opt for better exp by partying, makes them in your opinion, not a true BST? :roll:

Partying pulls in so much more exp than soloing. It's just that BSTs have the option of soloing. Any smart one will take the invite if the PT is structured well. You're getting faster exp, and you're in a much safer environment.

If they aren't charming mobs or using jugs, then yeah, they aren't true BSTs. But if they are, partying as a BST rocks.

 

[Duffman]

Quoting Skaw "Partying pulls in so much more exp than soloing."

In a sense that's true. I'll explain in a second but first I must say:

- Zimzum is in my all bst shell (you all are welcome to join if you are a bst
and are not Tupac ^^)

- I like Zim, he's a great guy but I don't believe in his philosophy of
"Driving People out" or that an xp party bst is a non-bst.

- I do agree that PL'ing destroys your learning experience though.




Back to the "who gets more xp" thing.
I agree that the downtime of a Good, Balanced, attentive, and NOT afk
group can and will out xp a bst. However there are things to consider.

LFG time, Time to wait for everyone to travel, get ready, Finally start
to pull, etc. Then you have to deal with "That Guy" who just levels and
suddenly realizes he has work tomorrow and has to leave.

I personally see bst as a slower but steadier flow of xp.
I see partying as a curve of no xp to great xp and back to no xp

Partying xp is like a sine-wave up and down. the downs are nothing and
the ups are great.

Soloing is like a near constant in the middle. Soloing and Duoing bst
actually evens out to the level of a party. In some cases it's worse and
other cases it's outstandingly higher than a party.


As a Sam, I struggled to get 50-62 where I am now. It took forever.
Then I got into a static with Sneakypants but it only met once a week and
we got like 3 hours of pt time.j

As a Bst, OMG... 40-55 was a Blur. That's 15 mid-range levels flying
by sooooo fast. 55-60 was slower but was also very steady.
1-35 was hell and a party would have helped and been faster.
I solo and duo a lot and my personal opinion is bst is a faster leveling job
solo.
(minus maybe, blm or smn and brd but I wouldn't know about those)

 

[ziphor]

wow... some serious info i didn't know about/got cleared up. :shock:

I found this info very usefull, thanks for sharing!

 

[Lecan]

First of all, let me just say I'd rather this not turn into a flameboard thread. I brought this information here to try to enlighten some people about the myths of BST, and give them some information on exactly what they bring to a party.

I'm amazed every day at the lack of knowledge most players have pertaining to the beastmaster job, while most other jobs are relatively well known. Understandable I suppose, since many BST left the partying scene because they felt it wasn't their place. Many of them, feeling as if they had been wronged in some way.

I myself felt this way for a long time, and to this day I have a very strong aversion to partying unless it's with friends, or someone begs me through tells (and usually that's liable to just piss me off).

That being said...

Looking at Zimzum's post, I think his point needs to be a bit refined (as it pertains to the "True BST" comment). I think he meant pre-35 BST partying is bad.

Reason being you learn all your skills for solo survival then. There's a reason people say "You will die a lot" when asked about playing BST. Because the only way you learn how to live, is to learn how you die.

I'd go on and explain thisin detail, but it really is a complicated subject. To explain what defines a true beastmaster and what doesn't is left all up to personal perception. Some believe BST are only meant to solo, others look at it like a job that CAN solo, but is not defined by that ability.

My personal belief?

Beastmasters should solo, 1-35 at least. Learn the skills for survival that have defined the beastmasters before you. No good can come of neglecting that.

**note**

I do in fact have a huge 15 or so paragraph post written up contrasting the differences between a party and solo BST, but I thought it would be much too lengthy to put here. If anyone wants to see it just let me know, and I'll post it.

 

[Zimzum]

Sorry Lecan, did not mean to start flamewar. Those were just my personal opinions on the job.

 

[Duffman]

Sorry Lecan, I didn't mean to detract from your original post. I just
thought that people out there should know that a lot of beastmasters
are really good hearted and wanted to help boost the reputation of a bst.

 

[Zaltana]

i've always considered a BST a job for a person that wanted to solo his way through the lvl up aspects of the game. were bst's designed to be exp party material in the first place?

edit: i re read that quote again and see that maybe i havent given the job enough credit. but im still in the dark about how being in gan exp party benifits the bst differently since they get an 30% exp penelty still. is it 30% off of say the 200+ that parties get normally?.

 

[Duffman]

well, a bst is just plain used to the idea of losing the 30%...
As you know you get a differing amount of base xp depending on the lvl
of the mob you are fighting.

bst has many differing modifiers like dc pet vs. tough prey gives better
xp than T pet vs. a T prey etc. Parties tend to fight the toughest things
they can find IT+ or IT and BSTs rarely solo IT's. We stick to EM thru
VT prey mostly. So even though we get a 30% hit, we get to enjoy the
remainder of an IT+ kill.

we can even try to leave our pets in time for the full monty, as long
as it's not an aggroing pet to jeopardize the party.

 

[Lecan]

i've always considered a BST a job for a person that wanted to solo his way through the lvl up aspects of the game. were bst's designed to be exp party material in the first place?

edit: i re read that quote again and see that maybe i havent given the job enough credit. but im still in the dark about how being in gan exp party benifits the bst differently since they get an 30% exp penelty still. is it 30% off of say the 200+ that parties get normally?.

As far as BSt always being a solo job, or being meant for it. Hmm.. well, it's a tough question.

Some BST speculate that the job was not originally meant as a solo job. This is because BST (from what I've heard) Did not originally have the ability Leave (pre NA release?). This would make the difficulty of the first 35 levels of beastmaster today the entire 75 levels of beastmaster back then. Perhaps SE intended BST to be somewhat like DRG, in that they were meant to do high amounts of damage split between themselves and their pets (or wyvern in the case of DRG).

Others believe that not including Leave in the original BST JA set was an oversight by SE, and thus was corrected.

I honestly don't know what to belive. All I know is that many beastmasters now solo, and very few party at all.

As far as the 30% Exp loss, this page explains much of it to some extent:

http://ffxi.somepage.com/links/exp_table.html#pets

To quote the relevant part:

Beastmasters' Pets

EXP = Normal EXP * 0.7

If a Beastmaster is controlling a pet at the end of the battle that is higher level than the Beastmaster, the above calculation applies to the experience the Beastmaster receives. If there are other members in the party with the Beastmaster, their experience is calculated like normal.

So for instance, if you are leveling somewhere on IT's and normal exp for that particular fight is 200, the BST would only get 140. The rest of the party of course would get the normal amount of experience points.

This isn't much of an issue post 35 (for solo BST) because they usually save all TP until the mob is just about to die. Then they release their pet, wait a few seconds and blast the mob with their WS. When the mob dies they get full exp without having to kill off their pet.

In parties it's only a different story if the party doesn't want to try alternative areas. There are places all over from 1-75 that people can party where their BST member can find charmables. A small guide on it here:




http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8&mid=1116269602425194927&num=10

 

[kodi]

Looking at Zimzum's post, I think his point needs to be a bit refined (as it pertains to the "True BST" comment). I think he meant pre-35 BST partying is bad.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think he meant what he said. There's a point of pride involved to say you solo'd you way up on this job.

Personally, I don't see how anyone does that all the way to 75. I joined exp parties in the dunes for a few levels as a tank (!), and joined a party in Yhutunga around lvl 30, fighting at the SSG zone. It was fun, but since getting leave, I don't want to take that 30% exp cut anymore so using jug pets in an exp party doesn't really appeal to me.

Even now, I wouldn't mind joining a full exp party seeing how it works out, but have you taken a look at the number of people in the low to mid 60's are searching for parties now? The other thing to keep in mind is that you should try to use a mob pet, not a jug pet, if at all possible. Regular mob pets are always going to be better than a jug. Problem is there's a limited number of spots with pets you can charm safely (EM or lower) and mobs an EXP party wants to fight (IT+)

I duo'd for most of the 40's and for half of the 50's. Pretty must duo all the time now for exp. It's easier, safer and faster. BSTs in the 60's have a lot more options to form trios or even parties of 6 BSTs to fight in Cape Terrigan or the Boyadha Tree. And to Duff's point, it's just not worth the time it would take to get a party started, get to a camp, waiting for all the ones that didn't bring powders/oils to be raised, wait for replacements to show up, etc...., especially now. When I was struggling in the 30's it would have been nice. Don't really need it now.

 

[Rorion]

Please Lecan post all your thoughts about this job.
More people need to know. ^^

I'm getting back the urge for this job now... Almost lv30, just 5 more slooow/boring lvl's to go.

 

[Lecan]

Alright since Rorion asked for it I'll post my thoughts contrasting the Solo BST and the Party BST:

The skill level of beastmasters vary wildly (hehe, pun), depending on how they were "raised."

You see, most jobs start out easy and gradually get harder as you progress in levels. But beastmaster works very differently. This is the reason there are so few in the first place.

BST is a hard job, there's no doubt about that. Most people who take up BST quit by level 20, and never make it to 35. A lot of us (Including myself) see levels 1-35 as the "training grounds" because you learn everything about how to survive here. People who essentially skip this section of BST learn very little about the BST way of life, because they still have someone to protect him.

Is that bad? No, not really. They'll miss out on the skills they would need to become an effective soloing BST, but if they intend to party then they've just made themselves a very effective party DD.

Soloing BST are just of a different makeup. We do things differently, we know things differently. At higher levels most BST can just pan the camera and remember where hostile mobs are, as well as safe spots to rest and possible EXP camps (for both parties and BST alike).

Not only that, but they will know whether or not they aggro, what they aggro to, whether or not they track by scent, their normal movement patterns, what all their sic attacks are, what sic attack has the higher probability of going off, the range of said sic attacks, whether or not it is worth it to use sic with said mob due to AOE possibility, what mobs are outright stronger than others (intimidation or no), and a whole other slew of information that just becomes automatic because you rely on it to survive.

Many BST who have partied their way will not be able to do these things, because they won't have learned it. They'll still have that partying mentality, where knowing these things is merely helpful, not necessary to survival.

Leave in and of itself takes a bit of skill, nothing major, but enough that it can get people killed. If a BST releases too early, he can easily die in an inconvientient spot. If he releases too late, it means he takes an exp hit. In addition to this is knowing how to use leave to diffuse particular aggro and link situations quickly without injury or downtime.

Another issue, a big issue, is hate control. Unlike the party BST a solo BST must monitor the subtle fluctuations in hate throughout the battle. There is no looking away from the screen for a second, or watching TV during battle. You need to know how to let the pet take hate as well as how to take hate. The trick is, you can't take hate for long periods of time, just long enough to stop certain things from happening, or to prolong the life of the pet without endangering your own. It is very tricky, and a party BST wouldn't have as good a grasp on hate as the solo BST.

Practice makes perfect, if you want to be a soloing and partying BST you have to have walked both roads. Preferably that means you've solo'd almost as much as you have partied on the job.

Whether or not you party on the job does not determine if you are a "True BST", just whether or not you've partied on your BST job.

These skills however are also something that most every player will develop if they have played enough, no matter what job. Beastmasters tend to develop them earlier because they usually mean life or death, but that isn't to say other players wouldn't know as well.

A lot of Beastmasters consider BST a solo job that can party, not a party job that can solo. We are used to this style of play, it is our bread and butter. We solo and are damn good at it. Most look at a Beastmaster who parties all the time as weak. Why? Simple really. If you believe BST is defined as a Solo job then lacking solo skills makes you weak at your job. BST who don't know how to solo also don't know how to duo, which can create problems later on that cannot be solved easily. Learning how to effectively solo on any job at later levels is infinitely more difficult compared to the lower levels. You have much more to lose at the higher levels, and the monsters are much stronger.

On the other hand, as a solo BST you miss out on the interaction you get from parties. Imagine going 5, 10, 15 levels without performing a skillchain. As you can imagine timing gets a bit off when you join that first exp party in a long time. Your leave timing is a bit off as well, parties finish off that last sliver more quickly than a duo or even a trio. So compared to the BST that partied releasing a natural pet (providing there is one) and timing it just right (So you don't release too early, or too late) to get full exp can be a bit of a pain.

A party BST will also have different instincts. For instance, a Solo BST's instinct is to do what is required when it is required, or die. This could mean running to find a new pet, changing your weapon and losing all your tp, etc. To be in a party you need to know exactly how the mechanics work, and know how to go with what the party says. If the party wants you to participate in the skillchain, you don't bust out your light staff to get that extra oomph out of your cures, nor do you rest during or after battle because MP or HP is running low.

Solo BST also may not have the correct sub for parties. I myself am guilty of this, because I've never leveled WAR past 15. As a result I sub THF during parties which is adequate, but I could be performing better. I've always solo'd, save about 6 parties my entire BST career. While arguably a good player will have all their necessary subjobs leveled up, you can imagine this usually doesn't pertain to the solo BST. After all, the only thing that matters to a solo BST is survival, and the general concensus is that survival isn't assured without a WHM sub (though some BST sub NIN to try a different strategy to soloing, thus making them good for parties as well).

All things considered, the key is moderation. A BST should become an expert at both solo and party play, if he wishes to play his job to the fullest. Neither one or the other is better, but only what you're looking for.