Besieged and Tanks, where's the 'voke?

[Uzor]

those mamool ja's hit fucking hard >.<

 

[Negorissimo]

You sound as if this server just lost it's 1st Besiege. Looks like it...

I think SE did something more in those updates than just tweak the mobs levels.

 

[Claxton]

I wonder when odon is gonna get a manaburn group together for beseiged...

 

[Blabj]

I wonder when odon is gonna get a manaburn group together for beseiged...

When they start offering bigger rewards than standing points.

BLMs are generally a lazy group of people unless the rewards are high, and worth the effort. I know this from first hand experience, because I'm also a lazy BLM who'd rather sit in his mog house than time some nukes.

 

[Mornlithe]

and this is where i just have to put forth my favorite quote/saying:

Footprints in the sands of time
are not made by sitting down...

 

[Claxton]

When they start offering bigger rewards than standing points.

BLMs are generally a lazy group of people unless the rewards are high, and worth the effort. I know this from first hand experience, because I'm also a lazy BLM who'd rather sit in his mog house than time some nukes.

I was being sarcastic :crazy:

 

[Amidamaru]

Tanks aren't gonna voke if they don't have a mage healing them or trust their mages will heal them.

wtf they scared or something.... there is no EXP loss on Beseaged(sp?) anyways i know they might die but wth they only tanking one mob at the time and begin ownd by alot of ppl and usualy there is a mage around healing some pplz

 

[Zyndara]

You make a good point. The whole point of a tank is to take the damage and hold the hate. If you die in beseiged, at least you're not losing exp.

About the "trusted healer" thing though... I've played beseiged as a melee and a whm and I have to say that the lag makes healing stupendously difficult sometimes. By the time someone in the party takes a hit that depletes hp a ways, it takes a little time for the spell to even start to cast much less actually be carried out. One thing I've noticed is that most mages have adopted a "greater good" mentality lately where they will throw a cure where it's needed regardless of whether the target is in party or not. Even more so now that Beseiged tosses you randomly about the town at the beginning. The lag just makes it really difficult to maintain party health, even if you're right next to the rest of the party.

I do agree with you though Skaw. My advice to potential Beseiged tanks would be: the mobs hit hard...if you're squeamish about dying, don't tank for it.

 

[Firestreak]

When I do besigned I just wanna get 700 exp/IP. I've tried to tank as my Ninja. The result is I am not hasted, healed or in the slightest able to survive more than a few nanoseconds, with too much lag to know if my shadows are even up.

I get killed and I'm told to HP. I come back and fight again. I wind up with 100-200 of the 700 possible IP.

As WHM, if I try coming in and healing people... I can't do anything from healing. Rack up no IP. I can't reraise myself over and over so don't lose, but gotta actually fight to get points I think. So basically I just put on my melee whm gear, anon and fight. I heal myself, I do so-so damage, and I get 700 points.

Trying to be a healer is horrible. I am too lagged, there's far more HP damage than I can ever heal, people want raises nonstop. Forget about it. I want to get some IP myself. Everyone should just sub whm, cast reraise on themself and rely on themself.

 

[Khajit]

You know since theres always so many drg in besieged they should start subbing whm and rdm.
If they spam thier healing breath spells in theory somones gonna get healed once they get in trouble automatically and the main healer wont have as much of an isue with lag because the healing breaths will help keep thetank from not dying before they notice anything happening. Add a rdm or brd for refresh so the drg never runs out of mp.

it wont be perfect but it might save a few lives of tanks that seem to be afraid of death despite it being thier main job to tank.

 

[decidence]

Um our last WHM got max 700 XP/IP and all he did was heal.

But yea I agree, I'm not gonna try to tank unless I have haste and someone healing me.

 

[Skaw]

Um our last WHM got max 700 XP/IP and all he did was heal.

But yea I agree, I'm not gonna try to tank unless I have haste and someone healing me.

Yeah, you get rewarded for healing/support too. Most of the reason for the lag comes from those that don't want to spread out the mobs and just rush for EXP/IS with disregard to what actually happens.

I can guarantee you the areas outside of the bastion are no where near as laggy.

 

[Valandil]

I didn't read all of the posts, but I thought I would offer up my experiences thus far and a suggestion or two. As a 73 PLD I die very fast in Besieged when I try to go through a normal tanking routine like I would for EXP and such. The mobs are usually hitting me for around 150 in full Adaman, Durandal, B. Seashell, Jelly & Vigor Rings, Pigeon ear. x2, Warwolf belt, and Knightly Mantle. I don't use food since I die within 5 minutes usually and I don't use earth staff because I have better accuracy with sword and shield. It seems to me that I get better exp and ISP if I use as many /ja as possible and deal at least some damage to the mobs, as well as burning through all my MP.

That being said, I do try to at least tank for a short period, even if I die because every time I have died multiple times, I have received the full ISP (assuming it's 700) and if i can get raised before it's over I seem to always get 700 exp. As others have mentioned, lag is a tremendous problem. I have especially noticed this with spell casting as I am used to timing my Cure IVs based on the mob's battle animation timing, so I can understand the problems mages have with keeping up with tanks. This is further complicated by the speed with which these mobs seem to attack and with the AoE and -ga III spam.

I know the lag and the sheer number of people in the zone all but prevents any large-scale organization but I have some ideas that may help. I seems to me that letting the mobs spread out at the beginning would be a great idea. I've seen a lot of deaths happen right off the bat because the mobs are all clumped together and their combined AoE wipes entire groups at once. Also, maybe it would be a good idea for alliances to designate a meeting grid other than the areas immediately near the gates to the city. If enough groups were positioned away from the zone, maybe this could cut down on some of the lag.

 

[Tyrisian]

These mobs are uber-tough and frankly they need to be or it wouldn't be worth the effort of even showing up. However it would be nice if they could be properly tanked but even lv 75's are dropping off. True if they were in a party with a semi-competent healer they would stand a better chance, but if the lag or hits are too strong, you die. And if not raised before the end you lose w/e you have earned even if you waited 2-3 hours for them to advance and arrive, or stay dead and if possible get a portion of it. (Thats even if a raise lets you keep your points which idk of yet.)

And as a Pld I know it's our job to voke and death has our number on speed-dial, but no Tank is going to live more than 2 minutes unless they have a great party, gathered on the same mob working together instead of everyone running solo blasting away as a Pld/blm using aoe nukes. (gulity )

Like Skaw suggested and many others have agreed, gather a good support party around you like you would for any other mission/quest/Xp, if you are a regular at Besieged you know from checking your region info you have plenty of warning from a lv1 preparing to an actual attack. Try to get your friends and linkshell involved, it's fun and nothing to lose but time (well gil depending on w/e potions equipment you buy for it) and it doesn't have to be treated like some random ballista you just showed up for. Make a lv 5 besieged static or gather an alliance and all kill the same mob.

I don't blame other Pld's for not voking though, not sure how quick it is for a lv 75, but @ lv 60, i press my ~Voke~ macro, it's 20 seconds before i see it even went off, another 20 seconds to see I've been hit once, then I'm dead looking at near full hp waiting for lag to catch up and tell me how many hits it takes to get to the gooey filled center of a paladin pop.

Let's work with the system however we can until they change it to make it better and then figure out how to work with whatever they just screwed up now.

 

[Raesvelg]

wtf they scared or something.... there is no EXP loss on Beseaged(sp?) anyways i know they might die but wth they only tanking one mob at the time and begin ownd by alot of ppl and usualy there is a mage around healing some pplz

No, there's no XP loss. There's also rarely a raise for a dead tank, rarely healing outside your own party which may or may not contain a healer of its own, and absolutely no reason for me to forfeit my XP/IS gains so that you can get yours. You wanna keep your gains over the course of the entire besieged? Disengage once you pull hate, switch to another mob, rinse, repeat. Don't whine to me when I drop hate and pull back to rest because I lack a WHM and/or RDM.

 

[BloodDragoon]

The only real issues I have in Beseiged are idiot THF's that recklessly SATA ANYONE! Its the biggest cause of non tanking job deaths during the events. The other thing I've noticed is theres always a fair number of mages around the zone that are willing to heal you provided they can actually get you targeted in time to cast. I pull hate quite often but never died yet as a DD though on one occasion I probably should have. I had something around 4 THF's SATA Sharkbite on me at the same time fighting a Troll MNK and the only reason I didn't die was due to AI stupidity. I fell off a ledge and it decided to take the long way down some stairs and thru a gate to get to me instead of jumping off after me. If your HP is down a bit tho back off and rest a min. Someone WILL heal you eventually its just a matter of how long it takes before someone finds you while sifting through the hordes of players and NPC's in the area.

 

[Khajit]

Thf cant trick attack anyone outisde thier alliance in Besieged so that excuse is pure Bullshit. If trick attack worked in besieged my assassin trait coupled with the 20 odd people standing between me and the monster shoud make an automatic critical which doesn't happen.

 

[BloodDragoon]

So engaging a mob already missing 50% of it's HP and hitting it 4 times for 60-70 dmg pulls enough hate that the 2 PLD's there voking and using JA's cant get hate back? FYI I wasnt in a PT when that happened either.

 

[Khajit]

And i have been trying to trick attack the monsters once a minute in every besieged with people in front of me and i missed or hit for 4 damage each time the person wasn't in my alliance. When trick attack succeded it did 175 low-300ish on a lucky shot.
Also hate is damn easy to get in a besieged. I've gotten hate when my lv 39 ninja was stuck there amd i was hitting for zeros. (yes other people were attackin/nuking it ect....)

 

[Chasym]

i dunno, i sata'd a spinning slash this morning, got 1.5k dmg and the person i sata'd to got hate, not me. And i wasnt in a pt at all.