Biden vs Palin Debate

I must say I am loving all the responses here. I primarily identify as a Dem, but I do have some Repub leanings as well. Now, think about this guys. We can point fingers at the Bush admin, but remember that some problems in government start during the term served by the previous president. Not saying Bush and his cronies werent at fault for some of the shit going on today, but in a way, this party system we have IS the main reason why people are so divided today. I sincerely believe that this WASNT what Washington envisioned when our country's government was set up. Your thoughts?
 
When someone can’t even answer questions being asked without being toally vague or leading to another answer to a question that wasn’t even asked, that screams scripted. This doesn’t remind you of Bush’s speeches at all? Sarah Palin is just the sheep that is hiding the wolf. No, she’s not in sheep’s clothing, she’s just a diversion. “Hay let’s talk about the female running for VP”. Worse yet was saying that coming out of the war would be “waving a white flag”, seeing as how the country is in an economic crisis, you think the less money spent over seas the better. Put your proverbial penis back in your pants and admit that you should have left the war a long time ago, and focused within the states. The only thing that will come of Palin becoming VP would be the adage “Look, if she can be VP, ANYONE can be VP!”
 
The debate was better than many news agencies acknowledge. No, neither candidate screwed up -- it was a boring debate in that aspect.

Biden gave answers which committed the democratic ticket to policies and agendas. Thus, there was more substance from Biden. Palin got around many of these commitments by answering, "well what I have done." An 'OK' answer, but doesn't commit a future result.

You want to know why I think Palin failed? (Aside from above)
To me, bipartisan cooperation equivocates to virtue in congress. As a representative or senator, you should deal in the interest of all Americans where and when possible.

The last question asked each candidate what they would do to work bipartisanly among the parties since both tickets claim they will work for bipartisan solutions.

Joe Biden, whether you like him or hate him, answered with his experience on many of his bipartisan projects -- the most commonly known one being the violence against women act.

Palin however injected, at the very least, a couple partisan potshots against the democratic party as a whole in regards to oil and energy prices. You don't answer a question on how to improve bipartisan relations like that.

My questions then for everyone:
Did anyone else smile when Biden acknowledged Palin's "windfall profit tax" on oil companies in AK is more in line ideologically with Obama than McCain? Was anyone left confused by Palin's answer to the Darfur question? Is anyone wondering why Palin can not commit her ticket to a policy of equal rights for all couples -- regardless of sexual orientation? All due respect, I'm glad she can tolerate personally, but thats not good enough.
 
I just thought it was funny when Biden tried to pin the banking deregulation on Bush and the McCain/Palin ticket. Palin, who he was talking to, has never been in congress or the White House. The deregulation happened in 1999 when Clinton was in office... and oh yeah, Biden voted for it.

If Biden won, it's because he was better than Palin at being absolutely full of shit with a straight face.

But whatever, Palin had a few inaccuracies of her own. Nothing quite bad as that though.
 
The main thing about the debate was that one person actually came off knowledgeable about what they were saying and the other you call tell was just rambling out talking points. If the moderator had pressed her for answers, and not let her dodge and simply ignore questions she would have reverted back to her Couric interview state.

Now they're two reason's we're where we are now. Deregulation, which is the fault of the entire congress because that bill passed 90-8.

The other is the weak dollar, which is entirely the fault of the President. Bush is the only president EVER to cut taxes during a war. Weak dollar causes inflation, the way to curve inflation is to raise interest rates. Which you can;t do because the economy is so slow. Now you're adding 800 billion dollars to the mix, and weakening the dollar even more, and yet McCain still promises to keep tax cuts in place across the board and keep two wars going. Flat out idiocy, honestly, beyond logic.

Lastly the bailout was a bad idea. One reason was because it weakens the dollar even more and causes more inflation. Also the market should have been let to adjust down to what things are actually worth now. They're giving artificial worth to things that aren't worth that amount of money. So if the next president can't turn the economy around and values don't come back up, that is wasted money. And as long as you're going to keep spending and cutting taxes at the rate McCain is trying to do, it will not come back.
 
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The other is the weak dollar, which is entirely the fault of the President. Bush is the only president EVER to cut taxes during a war. Weak dollar causes inflation, the way to curve inflation is to raise interest rates. Which you can;t do because the economy is so slow. Now you're adding 800 billion dollars to the mix, and weakening the dollar even more, and yet McCain still promises to keep tax cuts in place across the board and keep two wars going. Flat out idiocy, honestly, beyond logic.

Lastly the bailout was a bad idea. One reason was because it weakens the dollar even more and causes more inflation. Also the market should have been let to adjust down to what things are actually worth now. They're giving artificial worth to things that aren't worth that amount of money. So if the next president can't turn the economy around and values don't come back up, that is wasted money. And as long as you're going to keep spending and cutting taxes at the rate McCain is trying to do, it will not come back.

QFT and the damn house approved this damn bailout too... I find it quite funny though, the 25 of the 100 Senators that went against the bailout are all up for reelection this year too...
 
The main thing about the debate was that one person actually came off knowledgeable about what they were saying and the other you call tell was just rambling out talking points. If the moderator had pressed her for answers, and not let her dodge and simply ignore questions she would have reverted back to her Couric interview state.

You have to take into account the fact that Biden has only been doing this for 30 some odd years and Palin doesn't have the resume he does. For some one who is so experienced Biden should have done better and the fact Palin did as well as she did speaks well for her.

Obama knows as little as Palin does the only difference is he has been campaigning for the last year and a half and she has had only 5 weeks to prepare so don't kid yourselves. His scripted lines are just more rehearsed then hers.
 
Tomasello said:
You have to take into account the fact that Biden has only been doing this for 30 some odd years and Palin doesn't have the resume he does. For some one who is so experienced Biden should have done better and the fact Palin did as well as she did speaks well for her.

Obama knows as little as Palin does the only difference is he has been campaigning for the last year and a half and she has had only 5 weeks to prepare so don't kid yourselves. His scripted lines are just more rehearsed then hers.

No true at all. Obama sits on the Foriegn Relations committee, gets all the briefs, he sits on the veterans affairs committee among others. He's had meetings with generals and world leaders. She was speaking talking points about the commander in Afghanistan and couldn't even get his name right. I'm sorry, to say that they are on the same level just because she was mayor of a town of less than 10k, and is governor of a state with less people than the capital city of my state is nonsense.

And I'm sorry people are giving her credit for not messing up the most, that should say everything that needs to be said right there. As far as substance, when she did decide to even answer the question asked, the substance of the answer was not near what Biden was saying. Like I said if the moderator would have pressed her, she would have fallen apart.
 
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And I'm sorry people are giving her credit for not messing up the most, that should say everything that needs to be said right there.

Exactly. Pat her on the head for not screwing up when she was reading her answers like Bush usually did, that hardly qualifies someone.
 
No true at all. Obama sits on the Foriegn Relations committee, gets all the briefs, he sits on the veterans affairs committee among others.

Has he ever attended a committee meeting?
 
The other is the weak dollar, which is entirely the fault of the President. Bush is the only president EVER to cut taxes during a war. Weak dollar causes inflation, the way to curve inflation is to raise interest rates. Which you can;t do because the economy is so slow. Now you're adding 800 billion dollars to the mix, and weakening the dollar even more, and yet McCain still promises to keep tax cuts in place across the board and keep two wars going. Flat out idiocy, honestly, beyond logic.

Everyone points at the war, no one ever mentions what raising minimum wage has done...
 
Minimum wage, come on.

First the government does not pay for wage increases, so it does not add to the debt, and in actuality it will bring the number of people on government assistance down, because less will be eligible for it because they make more money.

The actual effects are people are caught between government assistance and the ability to make it on their own, and small businesses have to increase their payroll to a level they may not be able to afford.

But as far as causing inflation or weakening the dollar and adding to our foreign owned debt it hasn't had a fraction of the effect of spending 10 Billion a month just in one place. The money in this bailout bill and the ones that bailed out the other banks still isn't what we've spent in Iraq.

And what people should be worried about is what happens when the war ends, and hundreds of thousands of troops come home to a country where there are no jobs.

Bush is an imbecile and will go down as one of the worst if not thee worst president ever. Companies that survived the great depression could not survive his administration.
 
You guys seriously don't believe that raising the minimum wage has not had a direct effect on inflation? Who do you think pays when the wages of base employees go up? Those extra labor costs all get passed on to the consumer. Meanwhile, most of those who are not minimum wage labor did not see an increase meaning their dollar buys less...
 
The bottom having more money does not have a huge effect on inflation. Someone going from $5.65 to $6.15 will not all of a sudden have the ability to go out and buy a house, or a Lexus, or a boat, new top end PC, 50 Plasma, etc. If they were living check to check, they still are. They don't have money in the market to make killings as people did during the dot.com and housing bubbles. People made killings in the market and bought stuff like I mentioned and that drives up inflation.

And a weak dollar is not you thinking yours is worth less because the lower income ppl got a raise and you didn't. A weak dollar is in direct correlation to the amount of debt the government piles up. Having to sell that debt to other countries. Having our currency worth less than other countries, and since some commodities/goods are bought and sold in US currency no matter where they're sold in the world other countries can buy more for the same price we're paying. It costs them less to buy our goods, and us more to buy theirs.

Also people pull their money out of investments in the US and put them elsewhere. One place was gold, and another was oil. People thought it was a better investment than the US, and investors drove up the price of gas during that horrid stretch, it wasn't supply and demand, it was people speculating on where oil was going to go.

To even compare a raise in minimum wage to the effects of waging two wars and cutting taxes at the same time is nonsense. There's a reason no president has ever done it before. The government over spending compared to what its bringing in far and away has the most effect on the dollar.
 
Palin and Obama have different experience, but Obama's isn't necessarily better. Palin as a governor has executive experience, while Obama has congressional experience.

Hint: The White House is executive,

But that also means in terms of federal issues, Obama is more versed, as senators vote on federal issues. Governors stick to their state. The last two presidents both came from the governor's office to the white house. It's not a strange thing at all.

Another thing to take into account, Obama is a FRESHMAN senator. He's nowhere near as knowledgable as Biden or McCain. To make matters worse, he's spent most of his time as senator running for president. Which means the only thing he hasn't been focused on learning the issues as much as perfecting his trademark, inspiration speeches that give ZERO information about his actual views or politics, except that he wants 'change' and that McCain and Bush are the same person.

Now Biden on the other hand is well versed, he just twists facts or outright lies.

As for the minimum wage. The law of unintended consequences.

See: Government Meddling and how it fucks things up.

Rent control. Biofuel subsidies. The Streisand effect.

The liberal mentality is at its heart noble but in my opinion overly intuitive. I believe in a deep, systematic analysis of action and consequence as opposed to a "common sense" approach of using direct action to try and achieve intended results. The most important thing to consider is there are systems setup in their own balance and flow. When you go in and try and change it, they will rebalance themself somehow. The question being, is the resulting condition better than the original?

Communism is the ultimate example of this. It works in theory, because the theory is based on purely common sense logic, not any type of careful analysis of the situation.

Sorry to babble but it all comes back to my original point of, "can raising the minimum wage have a negative affect"?

Well I'd say there's just a lot of chains in the links. You have to consider raising fuel prices. You have to look at the candidates different positions on the issues. McCain is obviously more interested in driling oil. More importantly, McCain is interested building more nuclear plants. Obama is interested in bio fuels. McCain told the farmers straight to their face that it's a waste of time.

It's all in circles. The government subsidies of the bio fuels cost taxpayers money. They raise the prices. They eat up energy themselves. They pollute more. Now it's becoming more expensive to supply food, it's more expensive to hire, food prices get raised. People have less disposable income. Less money to put in their banks. There's less money out there to fuel wall street. Everything contracts. The reckless who relied on debt to get by get burned as a result. The greedy who wanted to snatch up homes in order to sell them back for more get deservedly fucked.

Now it all starts to hurt people who didn't do anything wrong. Cause they're the ones left with the check.

Or if you want to simplify things. If you wanna figure out the right course of action. Ask all the hollywood celebrities what they think, then do the opposite.
 
Well I'd say there's just a lot of chains in the links. You have to consider raising fuel prices. You have to look at the candidates different positions on the issues. McCain is obviously more interested in driling oil. More importantly, McCain is interested building more nuclear plants. Obama is interested in bio fuels. McCain told the farmers straight to their face that it's a waste of time.

It's all in circles. The government subsidies of the bio fuels cost taxpayers money. They raise the prices. They eat up energy themselves. They pollute more. Now it's becoming more expensive to supply food, it's more expensive to hire, food prices get raised. People have less disposable income. Less money to put in their banks. There's less money out there to fuel wall street. Everything contracts. The reckless who relied on debt to get by get burned as a result. The greedy who wanted to snatch up homes in order to sell them back for more get deservedly fucked.

Now it all starts to hurt people who didn't do anything wrong. Cause they're the ones left with the check.

Or if you want to simplify things. If you wanna figure out the right course of action. Ask all the hollywood celebrities what they think, then do the opposite.


More or less agree with you until you started ranting here...

1) Gasoline has seen its days and for two reasons
a) There isn't enough Oil to last the next 100 years, and this is even WITH Russia's permafrost oil.
b) Bush, since 2000, has been in search of newer fuels... where do you think lolEthanol came from? Also Ford, GM, Chrysler as well as other foreign auto makers have been in developing the same new technology for the past 10 years...

2) Fuelcells... GM is releasing 100 SUVs this year as tests in the general public, Saturn has released multiple vehicles across the west coast. Whats even more sad about this technology is it has been around for the past 100 years and is just now being implemented into vehicles. This is the shit Obama is talking about and McCain laughs at. Why? Who knows... His butt buddy Bush approved it and the cool thing is with soaring gas prices and the global warming talk... this will make gasoline obsolete for vehicles. Making this the "bubble" for Automakers... like they need one lol


Side note: Major oil companies won't go out of business either. Most of those companies have already sold most of their stores off to smaller dealers already and Shell and Exxon seem to have been supporting this push as well.
 
Fossil fuels will run out, nobody is debating that. The question is what do we do as both a short and long term solution? It reminds me of John Kerry's speeches 4 years ago. I recall him specifically saying, "We don't need to drill our way out, we need to invent our way out!" The crowd of course cheered big. But what I'd say is, we need to do both. We need to harness wind, water, biofuels(specifically sugarcane, NOT corn, wtf). If we're serious about biofuels, we can't use it as a political bargaining chip to score votes. That means grow the plants that produce well, not fucking corn. We also need to expand our nuclear power plants. We need to stop with the "not in my backyard" bullshit as well. Obama's ticket doesn't seem open to much except corn though, which means he's basically relying on the fossil fuels, which he's less enthusiastic about drilling.

To me, this is the most major issue. For those of us intending to be alive 20 years from now, consider that the choices made now are going to primarily be affecting us then. I don't know about most of you, but that's what scares me. We need to focus on that and stop shitting our pants over the dow. If stocks were overvalued, they're going ot reach equilibrium. Period. Shifting debt onto are children ain't gonna help.
 
I just can't take Palin seriously after her Couric interview and roll my eyes everytime she tries to talk politics. Granted Biden wasn't a model of perfection in this debate either, but... lol. American politics has become somewhat of a circus.
 
I just can't take Palin seriously after her Couric interview and roll my eyes everytime she tries to talk politics. Granted Biden wasn't a model of perfection in this debate either, but... lol. American politics has become somewhat of a circus.

Bread and circus. Dems and republicans put on a good show though. In 8 years they've managed to kill our rights and privacy, yet not many people are in an uproar. The founding fathers would have a goddamn heart attack if they saw our country now.
 
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