Blm, Is it for real, or just nuking?

[Mirewen]

Actually I love Dragoons and they are very helpful when killing some things, every class has an advantage. It is you that sounds "stuck up". I love how you talk like you know me, I've never said even one word to you. How about you get off your soap box and stop your bitching? When did I say anything about "needing" to have 12 BLM's at any time? I've played this game since day one and I have never once made anyone feel less important than anyone else. Why do you find it so necessary?

 

[Osse]

Quote:
The Black Mages have been way too strong ever since we released the game, and we've been trying to make them weaker. But as you know, players always find creative ways to get around this. But as for what we're going to do in the future, we're planning to continue to look to those Black Mages and continue to adjust them.


--Hiromichi Tanaka, FFXI producer
August, 2005

An adjustment (you say nerf, whatever) is coming and all the bile you (collective) can spew here won't change it. Is it the end of BLM's? I highly doubt it. S-E could over-do it, that's a possibility. Will it be the salvation of the game? I highly doubt that too. Only time will tell, and the real litmus test will be if the job is still fun to play after the adjustment.

However, using this quote to "prove" that the job has been abused is more than a stretch. This quote only proves two things:

1. An adjustment is coming... Duh.

2. This Tanaka-san is still clueless about his own game. The subtle admission is clearly evident in the quote, "...we've been trying to make them weaker. But as you know, players always find creative ways to get around this." They hold all the cards, they can make or break the rules at their desire, but the players outsmart them at every turn.

My point? Playing the game is very different from designing it. The developers had specific, pre-conceived notions about how FF would be played and what the roles of each job would be. After spending 100+ days combined time actually playing the game as opposed to theorizing about "how it should be played," most players know more about the practical application of jobs, skills and abilities than the game designers.

Besides, if they could tweek things so that it wasn't possible to play the game any way but the original intent I doubt that anyone posting here would be playing FF. Remember that these are the people who were shocked that Ninja was being used as a tank job. Shadows absorb physical and many single target magical attacks, no way anyone would want that for a tank :roll: . These are the people who thought it was perfectly fine that there be only one viable tank job (PLD) and one true healer (WHM). Even with those damn Ninja bastardizing their perfect game, and the occasional RDM/BRD/SMN trying to main heal in opposition to all that is holy, it's still damn hard to find a tank or healer for a party.

Not to mention, in Tanaka-san's vision of FF, you aren't really supposed to finish the game....ever. Want proof of this? Just look at 99% of all the quests the NPC's give you:

PlayerX: Hmm, a new NPC. I'll see what he has to say.
NPC Bob: Good luck!
PlayerX: {Huh?}
Bob: With that quest, the one I just gave you.
PlayerX: But you didn't tell me anything.
Bob: I told you "good luck," the rest is up to you. Figure it out.

When someone finally does randomly complete the quest out of sheer luck and posts how to do it, it turns out you need about 12 lv 75's to get a reward of 100g and a level 21 piece of shit item that you wouldn't wear even if you had that job leveled beyond 1.

I could go on about waiting for a digial ship to travel through digital space to carry your digital ass from point A to point B to blatently increase the time it takes you to do anything (hence pay more in montly fees), and many other things...but I won't. But I'd bet good old American green-backs that when the first player hit lv 75 sooner than one year from the release date, Tanaka-san had a panic attack. When the first team actually beat Kirin, he had a stroke. And when the first player got Maat's cap, he required cardioversion. So don't put too much faith in S-E making the game better for you.

 

[Peregrine]

It is you that sounds "stuck up".

Wow, internet debater tactic number 345: Reflect the accusation with no basis. Gee, let's review the thread to see just how stuck up I am. A...overt dragoon-lover. B...don't rely on burn parties and rigged setups...C...plays a marginalized meleer class..D...**** just read and comprehend the thread. This is stupid.

I love how you talk like you know me, I've never said even one word to you.

...except this:

You don't seem to complain about BLM's power when you need it to help you defeat something.

You don't know me from adam, and the first thing you say to me: I don't seem to do something. How the **** would you know, hypocrite? You're right, I didn't know you before you opened your mouth. But boy I read you like a book now. You can dish out assumptions but you can't take them. You can open with them, but how dare someone reply in kind. You're a black mage!

I have never once made anyone feel less important than anyone else. Why do you find it so necessary?

...ORLY?:

You don't seem to complain about BLM's power when you need it to help you defeat something.

You can't even OPEN the discussion to me without failing your claim. Are you even reading this thread? Exactly how am I making others feel that they're worth less? Who are you talking to? You can't be talking to me. I'm trying to make people see that other jobs have more worth than people give them credit for. If that means nerfing the babysitters and stuck-ups, then fine.

You couldn't wrench the sentiment out of your words if you tried. You may not even be conscious of it, which is naive but better than being an outright elitist. It's plainly clear what's going on deep down inside your head, in spite of what you overtly say. You think you're better enough to be doted on for helping others. You help dragoons. Dragoons don't help you. You have to bring out piercing weapon-damage to even convince yourself that dragoons help you.

You can't hide. I see you. What you think you're throwing back at me is nothing but a reflection of yourself that you don't even recognize. Blm has affected you. I can smell it on your words.

 

[Peregrine]

However, using this quote to "prove" that the job has been abused is more than a stretch. This quote only proves two things:

1. An adjustment is coming... Duh.

2. This Tanaka-san is still clueless about his own game. The subtle admission is clearly evident in the quote, "...we've been trying to make them weaker. But as you know, players always find creative ways to get around this." They hold all the cards, they can make or break the rules at their desire, but the players outsmart them at every turn.

Let me introduce you to a thing called public relations. He's not allowed to say he's disgusted with the kiddos who are abusing his game. All he can do is use codewords. Codewords are what adults use to be nice in the spotlight, but at the same time they're subtly scathing. No, make no mistake, that comment wasn't light-hearted. It was a code word. He just lit the people who play blm and try to exploit it. He laughed to be nice during the interview.

Secretly he'll nerf them and he'll laugh for real. They know this game better than you do. Don't be naive and play right into their hands. They act like players are smart, because it makes you feel good about yourself and continue playing the game. Don't be the highschool cocky bastard who thinks they're smarter than their teachers. Their GMs play the game too. The developers play the game too. They MADE you. They know everything their kids are up to, and the only thing that surpises them is how utterly sad some of their patrons are. The developers have tried to be nice and to not chop people's legs off. But the player base is giving them no choice.

WHACK BAM went the rangers.

CRASH BOOM went the black mages.

THUD SPLAT went the NM campers.

And the developers laugh and make their politically correct interview statements while PWNING the daylights out of stuck-up little brats who they would just as soon rend from their game as deal with for another minute. Quit abusing the game and they'll stop changing it. They know it better than you do, so take the hint or it'll be your job and your activity that gets the axe next. Do you think they're going to tell you they can't stand you as a customer? No, they'll just nerf you and try their best to select you out while trying to keep the rest of the blms.

THAT is the difficulty. Punishing the brats while keeping the innocents. It takes a developer to do that. It's not going to be as easy with blm as it was with ranger.

 

[Rahvine]

Is it really abusing the game if you are simply using the resources provided for you and still following the ToS?

 

[Peregrine]

Is it really abusing the game if you are simply using the resources provided for you and still following the ToS?

It's the only reason people are nerfed instead of banned. Yes, it really is abusive to exploit your job in ways that are not intended by the development team. They can't catch all the exploitations, and some exploitations are allowed: perhaps nin is an example if the dev. team HONESTLY didn't think nins would tank. I would argue that they're lying to you to make you think you're smart for discovering nin tanks, but whatever. No matter. Some unintended parts of the game are allowed.

BUT most aren't. Blms getting chain 30 in sea is not. Padded caps is not. Rangerburns are not. Manaburns are on the chopping block. The days of blms monopolizing the Kindred world are probably numbered. All these things were completely allowed by the ToS with the exception of padded caps. But did the exploitation rules stop people from generating gil from caps? Nope, sure didn't. Anyone can convince themselves that it's not an exploit--that it's a right. Sorry doesn't work like that in real life.

When a sam and monk sit in jeuno while two black mages get fat, that's abusive and ultimately against the true intent of the terms of use--fair play.

 

[Rinoah]

You keep bitching that BLM are needed to do gods and stuff and its unfair...maybe they should nerf PLD and WHM too? since they are considered quite necessary, the job system is obviously unbalanced.

 

[Peregrine]

You keep bitching that BLM are needed to do gods and stuff and its unfair...maybe they should nerf PLD and WHM too? since they are considered quite necessary, the job system is obviously unbalanced.

Funny, you can't even get what I'm arguing right. Black mages are NOT inordinately needed. Their imbalanced power does NOT need to be exercised. I need 4 black mages in dynamis. 4. Do you know how many thieves I have? 8.

Blm's aren't overly NEEDED. The game is not so broken as to require black mages. The PLAYERS are so broken that they can't win without succumbing to job favoritism. You're just too inept to succeed with anything less imbalanced. Admit it. It's not that black mages are required. It's that you're not good enough to win any other way. Hey, here's an idea:

Nerf black mages to prove to the server that it's all in your underachieving heads. You're not weak. Just lazy.

 

[Odon]

I fail to see how we are rigging wins when we are just using whats provided to us.

 

[Peregrine]

I fail to see how we are rigging wins when we are just using whats provided to us.

Wouldn't expect you to have the capacity to come to that conclusion, really. You were probably out there synthing padded caps with the rest of the losers, totally convinced that this was just a part of the game provided to you.

It's what you didn't use that was provided to you that matters. What you refused to use. Then you turn around and take cuts out of them because of who you say they aren't.

Developers say they are. Eat your nerf, brat.

 

[The Druw]

.....So like, if you consider the populations opinion on the balance of power vs how SE does thigns:




Does this mean DRG is gonna get an Atk + ability or something? XD

 

[Summerbreeze]

BLM is the best >.>

Got a 1770 MB today. Getting closer to 2k ^^

SE nerf us I'm quitting >.<

 

[Rahvine]

Peregrine, you seem a tad hostile.

Just a tad.

 

[Odon]

Blm, Just nuking or what?
Just nuking.
12%
12% [ 9 ]
Good for partie's
26%
26% [ 19 ]
Just good up for everything!^^
60%
60% [ 43 ]
Total Votes : 71

Seems people don't agree with you peregrine.

 

[Skaw]

Blm, Just nuking or what?
Just nuking.
12%
12% [ 9 ]
Good for partie's
26%
26% [ 19 ]
Just good up for everything!^^
60%
60% [ 43 ]
Total Votes : 71

Seems people don't agree with you peregrine.

I agree with him. Imagine that. It's because for once, he's right. Your job isn't the be-all-end-all. You're no more powerful than any other DD. It's just the fact that your damage is instantaneous that causes problems. And when you stack 6, 18, 64 BLMs against something, it shows the obvious flaws in the job design.

 

[Odon]

Yes, it does.

Cry me a river.


You too can play black mage!!!!!!

Don't act like it isn't avalible to you.. =/

 

[Skaw]

Yes, it does.

Cry me a river.


You too can play black mage!!!!!!

Don't act like it isn't avalible to you.. =/

Flawed logic. Becoming part of the problem doesn't solve it.

 

[alanon]

Blms getting chain 30 in sea is not.

This was nerfed with the last update. If this is your problem, then monks should be nerfed as well. I personally don't think it's nessecary, but following the logic. Really, Blms are kind of forced to group together for end-game xp. While yes, a blm is desired for for end-game activities, they are not really preferred for xp, most want a roving party which a Blm hampers.

Blm's aren't overly NEEDED. The game is not so broken as to require black mages. The PLAYERS are so broken that they can't win without succumbing to job favoritism. You're just too inept to succeed with anything less imbalanced. Admit it. It's not that black mages are required.

Then what is the problem? EVERYONE has preferences. Most want a Smn for CoP, or a Nin instead of Pld, or Brd instead of Rdm, etc, etc. Are we going to start nerfing everything now because someone else prefers it? You say you can make it fine without blms? Great, then this whole thing shouldn't matter to you one way or the other.

Personally, I think both you and the developers are both using the wrong philosophy. Instead of nerfing jobs, they should increase the effectiveness of others. I mean, every job had a role.

Look at the original six. Wars tank, Mnks bring physical pain, Thfs plant hate, Rdms enfeeble, Whms heal, and Blms bring magical damage. Perhaps the error occured in the design of the advanced jobs. Plds and Nins have become obvious, and sams and Brds are very useful too. But Drgs and Drks don't bring much but physical attacks. Sure, Drks have ABS, but they don't do all that much, and Drgs have....jump and....Dragons killer.... I don't know, maybe make ABS spells do much more and add some type of potent ability to the wyvern.

I guess the question is, HOW do you think Blm should be nerfed? Maybe the nerf isn't a nerf at all, but in fact a subtraction by addition. Maybe the BLU with compete for the spot of the Blm.....

 

[wolfskymoon]

No it just shows Enix didn't do a good job coming with jobs that are actually different from each other.

 

[Pompidou]

I don't think a nerf would solve Peregrine's complaints. SE could make a good chunk of the population happy by nerfing whatever the popular job of the month is, but Peregrine, I don't think SE can or will ever make you happy. It's not Blm that needs nerfing, it's not that Ranger needed nerfing, though that's all SE can do. They can only kill the symptoms, and not the cause. FFXI will never be a society where all jobs are equal. Campaign against Ranger, and the Blms will rise. Take down the Blms and Monks and Warriors will step to the plate (some people say they already have). There will always be a strongest class. No matter how many jobs SE nerfs, players will always pick the best job and toss 18 or so of them at their problems.

Is the problem the arrogant players in said jobs? It seems like it is. However, know that the arrogant bandwagon power-seekers are like fleas, and killing the dog won't make them go away. They'll just hop on to the next dog that passes by. The fleas on the Ranger dog hopped over to the Blm and Mnk dogs. Noone likes obnoxious jerks, that's for certain. No dog likes fleas. But we do like puppies. When you're trying to kill fleas, don't kill the puppy. Believe it or not, there are good people in popular jobs. I like to think I'm not an ass. Palum's a Blm who doesn't let popularity go to his head. If you beg SE to nerf every job more popular than your own, you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Punishing good people along with the bad. That used to piss me off in gradeschool when I, the nerdy, unpopular goodie-two-shoes, got punished along with the whole class for whatever. So yeah, don't kill puppies, don't throw away babies, don't persecute nerds, and don't support nerfs.