BLM next?

Firestreak said:
Can rangers not still outdamage other melee(potentially BLM too) on Kirin? By virtue of that fact that they can hit him at all and melee still can't do anything. Weakened maybe but still able to hit a moving mob. BLM already are horribly resisted by Kirin. All this update seems to say to me is we need more RNG and BLM to get the job done. Unfortunately it's caused so many Rng to quit...

Also unfortunately there's not much motivation for a BLM... they get a mere fraction out of sky as RNG do.
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RNGs ls's are taking a minimum of 2 hours to kill Kirin now, BLM ls's are taking 30-50 minutes.
Which would you choose?
Where is the balance?
 
And I am naive :lol:

Read all post by Foofighter and you will see that I agree with Legalus completely.
 
This thread has been a decent laugh, wish i had seen soem pics of what sea looked like and all but meh... the fact that a rng is asking where the balance is now i find awfully convinient and definately worth a chuckle. Oic, you folks got nerfed so now you're concerned with balance. :lol: Too funny, keep it up ^^
 
Strid said:
Remember Skaw is always right and for some reason has hate for the uberness RNG once carried. Just let him be in his little world :) There is no sense arguing with a brick wall.
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If by brick wall, you mean facts, then you're correct.

I've stated time and time again that I've never had a problem with Rangers(Why would I? A lot of my friends are Rangers,) just tactics centered around throwing as many as you can at mobs. Chain casting Utsusemi is a lot more viable than stoneskin, blink, and phalanx combined. Reasons being: Blink isn't Guaranteed like Utsusemi, Stoneskin and Blink cast times are through the roof compared to Utsusemi, and Phalanx is based off enhancing skill, which BLMs don't have much of. Not to mention Rangers vastly superior VIT and more importantly, HP, since BLMs are most likely wearring HP -> MP equipment, and most food rangers consume also give an HP boost. As well as higher defense in your armor(albeit, not much.) Evasion isn't a factor, because how many Monks do you see getting missed by T/VT mobs? And they have B evasion. It was even stated earlier, RNG sub NIN for Survivabilty, where as a BLM has virtually none, even with SJ buffs. As well, Ranger also has Shadow Bind, which is a far cry from easily resisted Bind or Sleep.

If you've run out of reasons to claim BLM has that power with no drawbacks so easily, why even start the arguement in the first place? If those defensive spells are so good, why don't you see Blackmages going all out in EXP PTs like Rangers could? Oh wait, because they aren't. Face it. Rangers paid for their damage in Gil. Blackmages pay for theirs in the fact that if the mob simply sneezes, they die.

Not to mention Al'teiau mobs are... odd. If I recall correctly, either Dua or Liefe mentioned to me they saw a DRG chaining those mobs, solo. I guess you're going to say they're overpowered too? They need a nerfing?
 
Firestreak said:
Same evasion, vastly different agilities?
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Buy more AGI. That's always an option. I'd rather put STR into my RNG but you just can't do that and be consistent most of the times. BLM with AGI equip am I dumb? Nope just pointing out that is ALWAYS an option.

Same defense? Vastly different HPs and Vits?
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Same if not lower DEF. VIT is near same and HP is a whopping 200-300 more making for maybe one more hit of life.

Parry skill vs no parry skill.
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I got nothing on this one but parry is a weak skill anyway unless you're a tank class.


Utsusemi, Agility boost and dual wield vs. utsusemi, removal of all utility spells and MP penalty. In the case of comparison 1 + 1 doesn't always = 2.
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Point is you can CHOOSE to protect yourself better with /NIN like RNG's but CHOOSE not to do so. RNG suffers looses for subbing NIN over WAR, DRK, or SAM but CHOOSE to survive over dealing more DMG. 1+1 always equals two if you look at it correctly.
 
Foofighter said:
But, I am a condescending prick because I am a Ranger so take all I say with a grain of salt.
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Now now now, I never intended to target you or all RNG's, But hell, a large portion of those that I have met seem stuck on there own greatness and think they are carying the party on the cost of there ammo(I've also come across some BLM's that are just as bad). You haven't struck me as condescending at all Foo, I don't see you mocking other melees like alot of folks do. As a job, I love RNG's! However, this doesn't make me blind to the fact that, historically, they aren't the most over dwelled upon job in the entire game and from a job aspect negated the need for a balanced party. If you could finish everything with the proper amount of just one job, that makes the game suck. End game stuff really doesn't concern me much, so far it would seem people are complaining about 4 mobs of the millions of mobs in the entire game. Does life stop and start for a RNG at god fights? Shit Abjurations are awesome, but still there is alot of crap you can do besides seeking ubber gear.

Just a question, with the new update how are RNG's faring against kited mobs outside of Kirin and company? King Behemoth a 3 hour fight now?
 
Skaw said:
Strid said:
Remember Skaw is always right and for some reason has hate for the uberness RNG once carried. Just let him be in his little world :) There is no sense arguing with a brick wall.
Click to expand...

If by brick wall, you mean facts, then you're correct.

I've stated time and time again that I've never had a problem with Rangers, just tactics centered around throwing as many as you can at mobs. Chain casting Utsusemi is a lot more viable than stoneskin, blink, and phalanx combined. Reasons being: Blink isn't Guaranteed like Utsusemi, Stoneskin and Blink cast times are through the roof compared to Utsusemi, and Phalanx is based off enhancing skill, which BLMs don't have much of. Not to mention Rangers vastly superior VIT and more importantly, HP, since BLMs are most likely wearring HP -> MP equipment, and most food rangers consume also give an HP boost. As well as higher defense in your armor(albeit, not much.) Evasion isn't a factor, because how many Monks do you see getting missed by T/VT mobs? And they have B evasion. It was even stated earlier, RNG sub NIN for Survivabilty, where as a BLM has virtually none, even with SJ buffs.

If you've run out of reasons to claim BLM has that power with no drawbacks so easily, why even start the arguement in the first place?

Not to mention Al'teiau mobs are... odd. If I recall correctly, either Dua or Liefe mentioned to me they saw a DRG chaining those mobs, solo. I guess you're going to say they're overpowered too? They need a nerfing?
Click to expand...

They can CHOOSE to eat, dress, and sub differently ever consider that ? It's all about choices man. A SJ should never be a reason in any jobs argument. Everyone has the choices to take advantage of any sub job and their spells and abilities to the lv 37 not just RNG...EVERYONE. So it's maybe not as ideal but the option is still there. I'm sure if RNGs could pick their ideal SJ it wouldn't be NIN.

For the bold:

Huh?

For going off say:

That's never a good way to base an argument or make a point.
 
Chaining that high is theoretically possible with other cannon parties, but due to lack of mobs its not phsyically possible. I can only assume they are fighting elementals which are weak to magic. A monk is strong against skeles and they get high chains off skeles. Probably the only thing limiting them is the amount of mobs in the area. The pic is from an experience party in sea where very few people have access and probably very uncrouded giving them total control over experience mobs. So far from my experience in sky, the only two viable options for experience mobs are statues and weapons. The weapons do not spawn fast enough for us to keep a constant chain. And statues do a lot of AoE attacks which cannot be stopped by utsusemi so it tends to eat up a lot of MP. However, if the supply on weapons was unlimited I bet you could chain just as high. The point is, any party at 75 can chain just as high with a proper cannon setup, its just a matter of making the right setup and matching the DD with their strengths. All you've done is show another viable option for a cannon party.


As far as ranger's not being able to get passed chain 25. The reason is simple. Lack of mobs or a simple mistake in the party. There is no difference between chain 10 and chain 25. The experience bonus and time between chains is the same. Every chain after chain 5 is the same so if you can continue to make those experience chains the only thing that should limit you is your own mistakes or possible a mage who is slowly running out of mp. In the link, the people said they finally ran out of mp and the brd died(not stated directly) so my guess is, every chain they had slightly less mp until finally they ran out. If you can get chain 25 all the better. That means you are maximizing your experience points for everything after chain 4 and if you can sustain it for that long, I am sure you can restart the chain easy enough.
 
Strid said:
Skaw said:
Strid said:
Remember Skaw is always right and for some reason has hate for the uberness RNG once carried. Just let him be in his little world :) There is no sense arguing with a brick wall.
Click to expand...

If by brick wall, you mean facts, then you're correct.

I've stated time and time again that I've never had a problem with Rangers, just tactics centered around throwing as many as you can at mobs. Chain casting Utsusemi is a lot more viable than stoneskin, blink, and phalanx combined. Reasons being: Blink isn't Guaranteed like Utsusemi, Stoneskin and Blink cast times are through the roof compared to Utsusemi, and Phalanx is based off enhancing skill, which BLMs don't have much of. Not to mention Rangers vastly superior VIT and more importantly, HP, since BLMs are most likely wearring HP -> MP equipment, and most food rangers consume also give an HP boost. As well as higher defense in your armor(albeit, not much.) Evasion isn't a factor, because how many Monks do you see getting missed by T/VT mobs? And they have B evasion. It was even stated earlier, RNG sub NIN for Survivabilty, where as a BLM has virtually none, even with SJ buffs.

If you've run out of reasons to claim BLM has that power with no drawbacks so easily, why even start the arguement in the first place?

Not to mention Al'teiau mobs are... odd. If I recall correctly, either Dua or Liefe mentioned to me they saw a DRG chaining those mobs, solo. I guess you're going to say they're overpowered too? They need a nerfing?
Click to expand...

They can CHOOSE to eat, dress, and sub differently ever consider that ? It's all about choices man. A SJ should never be a reason in any jobs argument. Everyone has the choices to take advantage of any sub job and their spells and abilities to the lv 37 not just RNG...EVERYONE. So it's maybe not as ideal but the option is still there. I'm sure if RNGs could pick their ideal SJ it wouldn't be NIN.

For the bold:

Huh?

For going off say:

That's never a good way to base an argument or make a point.
Click to expand...

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

what's the point you're trying to make here? As i see it you wanted to start this thread by calling mages out on being overpowered..... and quit with the deer in the headlights "anyone can sub whatever they want" line .. in a perfect world sure i could sub drg on my monk and use jump and have better acc and look cool and a blm could sub something stupid like pld or mnk or something to guard against agro but we all know that crap don't fly.
 
Strid said:
They can CHOOSE to eat, dress, and sub differently ever consider that ? It's all about choices man. A SJ should never be a reason in any jobs argument. Everyone has the choices to take advantage of any sub job and their spells and abilities to the lv 37 not just RNG...EVERYONE. So it's maybe not as ideal but the option is still there. I'm sure if RNGs could pick their ideal SJ it wouldn't be NIN.
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Too bad, Strid. I don't know what magical world you live in, but subjob does play a huge part in arguements like this. You're not going to see any BLM/NINs anywhere, except maybe farming and club skill up. You aren't going to see any BRD/BLMs(Hey, warp!) WAR/WHMs past Kazham, or DRK/DRG(Accuracy Bonus!) Ontop of that, you've contradicted yourself. If BLM can CHOOSE to use /nin, or whatever they like, why can't RNG break out of the mold of RNG/NIN for something more ideal like RNG/WAR or RNG/SAM?

Lavi said:
Chaining that high is theoretically possible with other cannon parties, but due to lack of mobs its not phsyically possible. I can only assume they are fighting elementals which are weak to magic.
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Yep. Those mobs are actually in Al'teiau, which no one really exps in, so that cannon PT probably had the whole zone to itself. And judging by the fact theres only 4 of them, vs. the Exp on that chain, the mobs they were fighting were high T/very low VT.
 
Mokk said:
Strid said:
Skaw said:
Strid said:
Remember Skaw is always right and for some reason has hate for the uberness RNG once carried. Just let him be in his little world :) There is no sense arguing with a brick wall.
Click to expand...

If by brick wall, you mean facts, then you're correct.

I've stated time and time again that I've never had a problem with Rangers, just tactics centered around throwing as many as you can at mobs. Chain casting Utsusemi is a lot more viable than stoneskin, blink, and phalanx combined. Reasons being: Blink isn't Guaranteed like Utsusemi, Stoneskin and Blink cast times are through the roof compared to Utsusemi, and Phalanx is based off enhancing skill, which BLMs don't have much of. Not to mention Rangers vastly superior VIT and more importantly, HP, since BLMs are most likely wearring HP -> MP equipment, and most food rangers consume also give an HP boost. As well as higher defense in your armor(albeit, not much.) Evasion isn't a factor, because how many Monks do you see getting missed by T/VT mobs? And they have B evasion. It was even stated earlier, RNG sub NIN for Survivabilty, where as a BLM has virtually none, even with SJ buffs.

If you've run out of reasons to claim BLM has that power with no drawbacks so easily, why even start the arguement in the first place?

Not to mention Al'teiau mobs are... odd. If I recall correctly, either Dua or Liefe mentioned to me they saw a DRG chaining those mobs, solo. I guess you're going to say they're overpowered too? They need a nerfing?
Click to expand...

They can CHOOSE to eat, dress, and sub differently ever consider that ? It's all about choices man. A SJ should never be a reason in any jobs argument. Everyone has the choices to take advantage of any sub job and their spells and abilities to the lv 37 not just RNG...EVERYONE. So it's maybe not as ideal but the option is still there. I'm sure if RNGs could pick their ideal SJ it wouldn't be NIN.

For the bold:

Huh?

For going off say:

That's never a good way to base an argument or make a point.
Click to expand...

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

what's the point you're trying to make here? As i see it you wanted to start this thread by calling mages out on being overpowered..... and quit with the deer in the headlights "anyone can sub whatever they want" line .. in a perfect world sure i could sub drg on my monk and use jump and have better acc and look cool and a blm could sub something stupid like pld or mnk or something to guard against agro but we all know that crap don't fly.
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The point is obviously clear to whom the quote was meant for. Sometimes I think you're only trolling my back end to flame me at every possible stop but now I just think you're an idiot in whom I just need to use the ignore feature on. I didn't start this thread nor did I ever say BLM was to strong and need a nerf. I simply agree that everyone has choices and they should never be discounted for. I never did "Deer in the headlights"...Legalus started this thread and I have replied to post pertaining me but again you loose at flaming me mokk please trollerblade on out of here or at least away from me.
 
Skaw:

People can by choice sub whatever, whenever, for whatever. Yes, it's not always a popular viable choice but the fact is the choice is theirs and it is there for them to make. That's my point. that's no dream world that's a reality. As far as contradicting myself I'm going to have to disagree on that with you. I have mentioned we can choose whatever we like as well that everyone can make their own choices. I never said we HAD to sub NIN but said we CHOOSE to for survivability and BLM has the same options open to them. Not every SJ is viable or what you want to sub but the matter of fact is it's still your choice to do whatever you want to do. I don't know how to make that any more clear to you.
 
That's right ... i'm stalking strid only to agree with him half the time and put down the idealism that would be wonderful but just isnt realistic in the game that people can and should sub whatever they want... i used to think like you 2 years ago too :roll: Get over yourself, i'm just reading the boards while farming, if i gave a shit about stalking and flaming you i'dve started a thread like i usually do for people who are completely ignorant. Seeing as how you don't fall under the category and i hardly made an insult in your direction fuck you very much :D

Edit: on a side note i appologize for claiming you started the thread, that was unfounded, unwarranted and typed out too quickly as to check the fact. On that note i appologize, otherwise please do stop claiming stalker like the cool kids when someone calls you out on something logicly.
 
Mokk said:
That's right ... i'm stalking strid only to agree with him half the time and put down the idealism that would be wonderful but just isnt realistic in the game that people can and should sub whatever they want... i used to think like you 2 years ago too :roll: Get over yourself, i'm just reading the boards while farming, if i gave a shit about stalking and flaming you i'dve started a thread like i usually do for people who are completely ignorant. Seeing as how you don't fall under the category and i hardly made an insult in your direction fuck you very much :D
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And everything you said by thread facts towards me were WRONG. What's up with that?
 
see above :P

i said the same thing skaw i just did it a lil meaner and with a better tag line, as is my nature. My bad ;)

Honestly tho, are your convictions strong enough to xp with a blm/nin, mnk/drg, war/whm, etc these days?
 
Mokk said:
This thread has been a decent laugh, wish i had seen soem pics of what sea looked like and all but meh... the fact that a rng is asking where the balance is now i find awfully convinient and definately worth a chuckle. Oic, you folks got nerfed so now you're concerned with balance. :lol: Too funny, keep it up ^^
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After the RNG nerf was announced every pro-nerf person talked about how much more balanced the game is now that rangers aren't as strong, they title is throwing that view back at the people who felt that way and asking where the balance is.
 
Sure, but bringing blm in to it as being overpowered is a bit silly, ESPECIALLY when using a blm/rdm/brd party as an example. Regardless, i know for certain a rng can take a hit better than a blm, not ammount of board blather is going to change that fact. I mean, if yer gonna call blms out on something bring the whole cannon pt thing up, that mentality is slowly becoming the new darkside to the server, why single out a blm in an area with weird mobs whose got support jobs backing him in a big way?
 
Mokk said:
Sure, but bringing blm in to it as being overpowered is a bit silly, ESPECIALLY when using a blm/rdm/brd party as an example. Regardless, i know for certain a rng can take a hit better than a blm, not ammount of board blather is going to change that fact. I mean, if yer gonna call blms out on something bring the whole cannon pt thing up, that mentality is slowly becoming the new darkside to the server, why single out a blm in an area with weird mobs whose got support jobs backing him in a big way?
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he isn't calling them out, he's asking if the all the pro-nerf people are going to go on a witchhunt for blms like they did for rng. and as far as blms taking a hit, i'm pretty sure by chain 68 they weren't too worried about it.

and as for why single blm out? why siingle rng out?

/em answers question with question.

there was nothing wrong with either job except that they could bully mobs around. mnks can bully mobs around, lets have more jobs that can bully certain mobs around instead of taking those jobs away.
 
Mokk said:
see above :P

i said the same thing skaw i just did it a lil meaner and with a better tag line, as is my nature. My bad ;)

Honestly tho, are your convictions strong enough to xp with a blm/nin, mnk/drg, war/whm, etc these days?
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It's cool to see it's just politically we argue and nothing of that has gone personal in which it shouldn't and I thought it had :) I appologize for claiming stalker. However, I still never acted like a deer or called out other classes. Just acting a little "Pro Choice" if you will :wink:

I never said I would XP with one I just said the choice was theirs to make. However, I probably would. In my times I've PTed with every from DRG/NIN to RDM/NIN (in xp pt's way before NI) and didn't mind it. It's the people I enjoy. If they are cool then it's all good.
 
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