BLM Question about Nin's

[Nicolette]

So i'm not exactly new at BLM but today in bibiki I had a nin who REQUIRED that I stun for his utsusemi ichi timer, and on damnation dives because he was getting hit. So not ever having played nin, and only handled it as a whm (haste the nin, cure him if he gets hit), and as a summoner (stoneskin the nin, cure him if he gets hit) I asked about utsusemi timers so I could try to manage my hate more. says ichi takes like 10-12 sec and ni is practically instant so he needs stun to get ichi off.. fine. I asked about recast on ichi and ni but got no response. So ok, now im stunning whenever I see his macro unless I happen to be trying to nuke or elemental enfeeble or something.. and i'm reduced to maybe nuking once in the fight on the burst unless the nin needs ichi in the middle, in which hes told me to cancel the burst and get stun off.

is this standard practice?

pt was
thf
nin
blm
smn
brd
drg

and heres some parse data.

Tankt - NIN
Total Fights: 51
Average Damage: 695.65
Average Percent: 14.64
Average Accuracy: 73.79
Estimated DPS:

Benjoboy - THF
Total Fights: 51
Average Damage: 1298.86
Average Percent: 27.73
Average Accuracy: 66.14
Estimated DPS:

Zkyuun - DRG
Total Fights: 51
Average Damage: 1048.35
Average Percent: 22.16
Average Accuracy: 72.32
Estimated DPS:

Sasavi - Wyvern
Total Fights: 51
Average Damage: 265.71
Average Percent: 5.57
Average Accuracy: 60.64
Estimated DPS:

Aliciana - BRD
Total Fights: 2
Average Damage: 220.5
Average Percent: 2.19
Average Accuracy: 0
Estimated DPS:

Whitelighter - SMN
Total Fights: 2
Average Damage: 246.5
Average Percent: 5.98
Average Accuracy: 0
Estimated DPS:

SC: Distortion
Total Fights: 36
Average Damage: 243.17
Average Percent: 5.32
Average Accuracy: 100
Estimated DPS:

Nicolette - BLM
Total Fights: 51
Average Damage: 1221.04
Average Percent: 25.5
Average Accuracy: 1.96
Estimated DPS:

 

[Zoolander]

Damnation dive is a pain...but thats why you have utsu:ni, for when you need shadows up in a hurry. No, you should not have to stun, especially with a bard lol. This guy just doesnt know his shit...birds are weak sauce besides that TP move.

 

[Euphacent]

Sounds like the nin was crappy. However, when I exp'd with nin's as blm and whm, I would always flash/stun whenever they began to cast ichi.

 

[Kire]

lol shit nin a war can tank those dhamles in bib the 62-66 1s not the other 1s with /nin callum seen me tank them ichi before ichic between with cap parry and ev its so easy XD only help ever got was being sata at start so u cna say i did not take all hits

 

[Mai Ikari]

And that is what we like to call a "bad ninja," and not bad as in badass, either.

A NIN with good gear won't need stun. It's helpful as all get out, but it's not needed. And he should never be telling you to ignore the burst to stun, I mean, come on, that's crazy talk.

Ichi is 30 second recast, 4~ second cast. Ni is 45 second recast, 1~ second cast. That's less depending how much haste is on him, but we'll assume he's got nothing and just Haste (10%). That's... 27 ichi, 40 ni, or something like that.

Anyway, the point is, there's no way he needed those stuns more than the party needed your nukes. If you're not busy casting, or he's having trouble getting utsu off, sure, stun. But what he was doing was using it as a crutch.

 

[Stouter]

Assuming the bard was sticking elegy, and the ninja was sticking hojo, it's very easy to cast ichi between attacks, with no chance for interruption. If the mobs are too high to tank, say for a level 62 or lower ninja for the birds you're talking about, then a ninja will need help with shadows, either in the form of flash or stun, or a backup voke.

But if elegy and hojo are sticking, there is no reason for a ninja to need help on any mobs. Against IT mobs I cast ni between fights, and often go entire fights without losing all 4 shadows when I have a good brd.

ps - haste alone takes ni recast to 37 seconds

 

[Direwolf]

Looking at his numbers alone that is embarassing.

 

[Nicolette]

nin was 63 wearing AF body, didnt notice the rest, dunno what affect that would have on anything

 

[Ithenas]

no nic, this isn't "standard practice" your nin is just a lazy ass dumbfuck, plain an simple. no ninja needs stun to get ichi off, it's as simple as counting shadows and cancelling ni. if an attack ate thru the ni shadows (like AoE or multi hit WS) then yes, he might need stun to get thru ichi, but there's no way in hell he'd need it for every single cast if he was bothering to play his job, tell him to fuck off and pay attention.

 

[Rayebee]

;;... anyways thats a nice lil thingy thats shows the damage output of the party. even shows Skillchain damage, pretty cool

 

[Numa]

Having played BLM and nin, Basically Id say you had a bad nin.

Too many nin out there start casting Utsu:Ichi after theyve already lost all their shadows. Friggin stupid.

What they should do is start casting ichi when theyre down to one shadow. Ichi does not overwrite :ni tho, so you need to drop :ni at about 50-60% :ichi casting time. A little practice and youll be able to time it so the mob attacks at about 30% casting time, leaving you a nice casting window. Save :Ni for emergencies, like after WSs that drop all shadows. You can easily get off a :Ni between mob attacks, so wait until all your shadows are gone to use it.

Of course, mobs can just suck sometimes. Ive been hit by jet stream for 3 shadows right after putting up ichi, put up ni, only to get hit by another jet stream I let the mnk tank for the next 30 seconds >.<; Back to back multi-hit wss suck for nin T.T

But as a BLM, Use stun as much as you can, its an underrated spell. Toss one in about a second after you see the mob use a WS, esp. a multi-hit WS. Buys the nin some time to recover.

 

[Lyrai]

As 66 NIN, I pretty much only need :Ni. If a NIN is playing well, they really don't need :Ichi. The timer should pretty much loop if you've got decent equipment and are doing your job. I only ask a BLM to stun or WHM to flash if I'm unable to get either :Ichi or :Ni off, and are taking some serious damage. Granted though, Damnation dive is pretty bad since it's a knockback/stun attack.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

not everyone can afford perfect gear or a SH... everyone can afford skill cause it's free
big fan of member distortion there... looks like he did a lot of leeching though.
asking to stun for ichi isn't so bad but it shouldn't be necessary... with a slow connection timing ichi can be fragile though... normally on my nin or war i can time it so the hit gets me in the first 25% where it doesn't interupt...

ah, whatever, nice parse on your numbers, i haven't had a decent blm in a while... well.. an hour with quieren (sp?). most blms i've seen lately make me cry... gogogo good blms ^^

 

[Bajaratt]

I agree with the rest of the people in the thread, you had a bad nin. When I party with a ninja on my white mage, I'll usually throw out a flash or two every fight. It helps the ninja a little bit with shadows(they usually don't need it), it levels my divine magic a little bit, and I usually have mp to burn. It's a nice thing to do for the ninja when you can, but the fact that he demanded it and wanted you to stop your actual job(MB off the SC) means he's definitely sub-par.

 

[gir]

As whm, I have much love for my tanks. Flash and ichi work well together (similar recast) and I've seen stun work well too.

Typically a blm is casting longer spells than a whm, so it's really not his "job" to do so during every ichi. That gimps the pt's dmg.

SMN might want to be doing Earthen Ward regardless. IMO, that's a better strat for avoiding interrupts and dmg with ichi and no shadows.

NIN parsed really really low, so I'm guessing they weren't very good nor had good gear. At least with you not nuking he could hold hate with his lousy dmg!

 

[Bajaratt]

Looking at his numbers alone that is embarassing.

Yeah, the THF was the top damage dealer for the fights, doesn't look good for the other melees either.

 

[Mai Ikari]

But as a BLM, Use stun as much as you can, its an underrated spell. Toss one in about a second after you see the mob use a WS, esp. a multi-hit WS. Buys the nin some time to recover.

Best advice I've ever seen on the subject. I honestly forgot that BLM had the spell stun until I was on a Hakutaku run and the BLMs had a stun cycle. "Wait, you guys get that spell? Then the past 25 levels... " And it's not like I never partied with BLMs, every other party had one, and I was staticed with a NIN.

Even worse for WHMs and Flash.

 

[Shaunessy]

Flash is also a great thing to use after a MB that doesn't kill the mob. That will help a NIN get hate back and prolong the life of the BLM. I'm going to say that the NIN was shitty though. Plus, he said it takes over 10 seconds to cast Ichi? WHAT?

 

[Tankt]

ok, first off, i never said utsusemi ichi's cast timer was 10 seconds, that was other party members. second i only advised cancelling magic burst if i got stunned because i would be unable to voke it off of you

our whm was whitelighter, thief was benjoboy and i'm having trouble remembering the bards name. all of which sent me /tells about our blm who wasn't a bad blm but had some problems.

now this is embarassing but i never thought of cancelling my last ni shadow to enable ichi to cast so i've been letting all shadows go away before recasting either ni or ichi. so this flame on me is actually going to help me out^^
this is seriously going to be a huge help i think for future tanking

bard was sticking elegy but even after cating ration ni and having capped ninjitsu skill +5 i wasn't able to get hojo to stick often so i stuck with kuriyami and jubaku

only thing i have trouble understanding is what is so hard about throwing out the occasional stun? whitelighter our whm even sent a tell after we got you to start stunning telling me about how much less MP she was using. now with this new idea of how to correctly blink tank, i might not have needed you to stun at all but really, is it so hard?

i mean when we asked you about it in the party, your responce for not doing so was my macro didn't have enough JP smileys. i mean im trying and using every ability at my disposal, but you whine about being asked to stun?

 

[Tankt]

for those interested in helping me be a better ninja i'll post my gear

emp hairpin, spirit torque, balithorn, 2 of the Lv61 katanas, AF body and legs, arhat hands and feet, snipper ring, veneer ring, life belt, 2 elusive earrings but was using melody since we had bard. i also have a survival belt but forgot it in mog house. i have arhat pants waiting for me when im Lv64

i always use all ninja debuffs unless they consistently don't stick even after debuffing to the propper element prior to their use, except for poison. for food i use squid sushi for accuracy and for the agility since im galka

i know scorpion harness is an invaluable piece of gear for ninja and have been saving for it. ninja is my highest job and mining is my prefered method of making gil ,though im kinda addicted to smithing and sink a decent amount of gil into it and other crafts since a good smith will need lots of sub crafts leveled

i've been playing for 4 months and think the game is amazingly fun and all advice and ninja techniques that may be unknown to me will be most welcome. i've read lots of ninja forums because i want to play well and i've always seen the ni - ichi - ni thing but i was a little confused by it since when i would start casting ichi and it would have no effect since i had 1 shadow of ni left and i evaded that last hit. rather embarased that i never thought of cancelling ni so ichi could land but overall i am excited because i think it'll make me much more effective