BQ Thread Tokens

[xKronox]

Haha, if they did that, we sure would have a good times thread in the making! :crazy:

Grats on the rings guys, that is a fun fight with several BSTs and SMNs. ^_^; At least in my experiences.

Idk if you have been camping Aery lately, or if you do at all. If you have, /c some of the tanks. ;O

 

[Caerloc]

Yeah, cause fire is such a great concern with fafhogg...
It's not like negative fire-resistance actually ADDS damage. Saying bombqueen ring is terrible for fafhogg is like saying Crimson scalemail is awesome cause it has -10% breathdmg taken.

Besides, the only way your gonna actually resist the breaths is by wearing a full fire-build. And doing THAT would be insanely stupid. Bomb queen ring wouldnt make the slightest negative difference in a fight.

If you wanna rag on nubs, make sure you have the proper understanding of game mechanics, or your just gonna come off as a retard yourself.

 

[xKronox]

Yeah, cause fire is such a great concern with fafhogg...
It's not like negative fire-resistance actually ADDS damage. Saying bombqueen ring is terrible for fafhogg is like saying Crimson scalemail is awesome cause it has -10% breathdmg taken.

Besides, the only way your gonna actually resist the breaths is by wearing a full fire-build. And doing THAT would be insanely stupid. Bomb queen ring wouldnt make the slightest negative difference in a fight.

If you wanna rag on nubs, make sure you have the proper understanding of game mechanics, or your just gonna come off as a retard yourself.

The fire resist down actually DOES make a slight differnce that does add up. Not to mention there is better options for ring equipment.
I'm not expecting anyone to get a full fire resist build on fafhogg, but using this ring is still pretty lol. There's a differnce from taking 0's and adding damage taken when it comes to elemental resists. Maybe if you want to come off as a know-it-all-im-better-than-you person maybe you should make sure you have the proper understanding of game mechanics, or your just gonna come off as a retard yourself. If you have any evedience to prove me wrong that wearing negative elemetal gear doesn't add damage taken, please present it.

 

[Caerloc]

Allow me to educate you.
Fire-resistance does not give you somekind of % damage cut on every attack. It does not infact really add up. Resisting magic damage causes the target to take 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 of normal damage. That is all it does. There is no multiplier going the other way. And to actually resist with any type of consistancy you need to be wearing 100+ in resist gear. To resist 90-95% of the attacks you need to wear about 160 resist or more. What you are gonna resist in your typical fafhogg tank equip is about possibly 1 breath. And thats so random you probably would resist that one even with the BQ ring on.
Dont confuse reduction from positioning with an actual resist.

To further prove my point, i can also tell you that just because your screen may show -75 fire-resist, it doesnt mean your actuall fire-resist is -75. The screen shows a sumarize of your gears added resistance. Nothing more, nothing less. You actually have a base resistance to any element. Base at 75 is about 225, with BQ ring thats about 150. You see, even if negative resistance DID add damage, i dont actually think there is any way to actually achieve it.

Do i need to go on?

 

[xKronox]

Allow me to educate you.
Fire-resistance does not give you somekind of % damage cut on every attack. It does not infact really add up. Resisting magic damage causes the target to take 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 of normal damage. That is all it does. There is no multiplier going the other way. And to actually resist with any type of consistancy you need to be wearing 100+ in resist gear. To resist 90-95% of the attacks you need to wear about 160 resist or more. What you are gonna resist in your typical fafhogg tank equip is about possibly 1 breath. And thats so random you probably would resist that one even with the BQ ring on.
Dont confuse reduction from positioning with an actual resist.

To further prove my point, i can also tell you that just because your screen may show -75 fire-resist, it doesnt mean your actuall fire-resist is -75. The screen shows a sumarize of your gears added resistance. Nothing more, nothing less. You actually have a base resistance to any element. Base at 75 is about 225, with BQ ring thats about 150. You see, even if negative resistance DID add damage, i dont actually think there is any way to actually achieve it.

Do i need to go on?

From what source and what testing is this proven upon? (I'm not saying you're bullshiting I just want to know.) I still imagine that negative fire resist adds damage taken. Just like having a gimp barfira from a /whm helps w/ mijin to receive less damage taken, a negative fire resist adds damage taken which in turn adds up to the ammount of HP recovery needed.

ninja edit: The source im talking about is not about the resist 1/8-1/16th. Its the 225 natural resist, and the fact that there is no way to take more damage from -75 resist.

 

[Caerloc]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Resistance

 

[xKronox]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Resistance

It still doesn't say anything about -75 not adding damage taken.

 

[Caerloc]

Well, it doesnt mention anything about the other way around either, wich it should if it was true.

But like i said, to further prove my point it DOES say something about 225 - 75 != Negative resistance. So like i said... even if there WAS an equal multiplyier going the other way (when did you last see someone take 16x dmg from a nuke?) there is no real way to actually achieve negative resistance.

 

[xKronox]

Threnody lowers elemental resistance by 50 points, plus 5 for each +1 on the instrument, so says this page.

BQR lower resist by 75. w/o the negative resists the chances of higher high damage are low, or the chances of resist to occur actually are low, correct? So thus this adds damage taken. Even it's -60 from threnody or -75 from BQR. In general terms, BQR is bad for tanking because it's add damage taken to a considerable amount and also adds negative(negative as in BAD.) enmity for more cures needed to said mages. Not to mention, the better options available to most starting PLDs tanking in endgame.

 

[xKronox]

I guess the easist way to test this would to be to go PVP someone and have them wear the ring while you cast lets says, 5 fire 3s on them with ring on, then 5 fire 3s with the ring off. Add the damage up on both sides and compare.

 

[Caerloc]

I never said BQ ring was a GREAT option for tanking fafhogg. Just that it wasnt retarded, or even lolworthy.

But what you still seem to fail to grasp, and wich was my first point, is that you really arent going to resist any breaths in the first place, without the bq ring. So by equipping it you arent gonna be taking any extra damage. The reduced dmg comes from positioning far from the center of the cone. (The reason you stand on its feet)

And if you really want to take it THAT far, lets say you actually get a smidge more dmg, its a fact that plds needs to cure to hold hate. (sure you can make a gearswap and cure yourself without taking dmg.) But majority of a pld's hate is gonna come from curing himself. The amount of dmg the pld MAY take due to not resisting that one breath he COULD have resisted without bq ring, isnt gonna be more then he can easily cure himself and actually gain more hate.

 

[Caerloc]

I guess the easist way to test this would to be to go PVP someone and have them wear the ring while you cast lets says, 5 fire 3s on them with ring on, then 5 fire 3s with the ring off. Add the damage up on both sides and compare.

Ignoring the fact that a samplesize of 5 isnt gonna tell you anything whatsoever, im pretty sure that they already did tests to get the information on wikipedia. And if the results where to show that it worked both ways, that fact would have been presented.

 

[xKronox]

You seem to keep talking about the plus effects of resists, when im talking about negative resists. I mean you say that you aren't going to resist many breaths so BQR isn't a big deal, I think you are adding then subtracting, instead of just subtracting from the idea of resist.

A breath that takes place and does not gain postive resist, which is most likely to happen, but gains negative resist adds current damage total. Instead what I think you are thinking is this: A breath that takes place and gains a postive resist, being it even of the lowest, it not effected by -75 because the resist is taken place, which makes not differnce in the damage.

I think you fail the grasp of the idea of negative resist and how just a bit can effect even 5-10% damage taken.

And the reason why I say 5 fire 3's is because that is just a guess how much a typical fafnir would use breath attack in an average fight. And I'm sure the eveidence would still be shown by this test. I think the reason people don't test thing is because such a debate like this never takes place, because its always about postive resist tests, and not negative. Just go check it out.

You ever consider that my point is also proven by carol? If Carol is not provided on tanks during such fights as Tiamat, or any HNM that uses fire elemtal attacks, that teir of resist is not acheived for them and more damage is taken. Now lets look at this from a negative and completely oposite perspective: If said person has 225 resist then said teir of resist is to take place, and damage is normal, but if there is -75, or 150 then the teir of resist is lost, or lowered and damage is abnormal and more of. The fact that BQR lowers resist to 150 does increase damage taken, I don't understand how this isn't clear?

 

[Caerloc]

Its not that im missing it. Its just that for several reasons there can be no EXTRA damage comming from wearing BQ ring. Its just not in any way possible, i thought i had presented enough proof to atleast show you that. If in fact it was possible to take extra damage from negative resist (i'll indulge in actual negative resist soon) it would have to follow the same rule as positive resist, ie x2, x4, x8 and x16 the dmg. If this type of damage multiplier DID exist, it surely would have been noticed.

But lets assume it actually does exist. I would assume you want to suggest that in can only happen when you have negative resistance. 225 - 75 is 150, meaning no negative resistance and BQ ring wont ADD any extra damage.

If you want to suggest that it can happen without actual negative resist and the chance gets higher the closer to 0 you get, i would point out 2 things. Starting at lvl 1 you have like... 3 base resistance and to date i have yet to see a screnshot of a lvl with 16000 dmg from a T4, wich in that case would be close to a guarentee. And if it was possible to get multiplied dmg without target having actual negative resist, why havent i myself in my close to 5 years as blm seen a single 16000 ThunderIV casted on a mob? Its almost statistically impossible for me not to see that if it was possible, and 100% statistically impossible that no blm serverwide has.

 

[Caerloc]

Are you dense? You cant start comparing to a tiamat fight where the tank is wearing 160+ fire-resist in gear and say that if you wear a bq ring here, more dmg is taken, therefor the same must be true for fafnir.

We've been over this several times already, try to grasp this. Your tanks arent wearing any fire-resist gear in a fafnir fight. If they do they are retarded. But assuming they do, then fine, by wearing a full fire-set, then adding a bq ring, you are gonna take more breath dmg from a fafnir fight. But the same fact just isnt true when you arent wearing any fire-resist gear, wich you arent gonna do in a fafnir. And when you arent actively trying to resist the dmg, then you pretty much wont either.

And since we proved you arent going to actually multiply the damage by lowering your base resistance, then you arent taking any extra damage from wearing a bq ring.

 

[Arctyrael]

This is not the place to discuss mechanics. Start a thread in endgame if you really want to talk about resist mechanics. I don't claim to be an expert on all things endgame, but it seems silly my comment sparked all this.