Building a new PC, and soliciting advice.

Winklewil

Winklewil

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I've been dying for a new PC, for well over a year. Maybe two. To give some perspective regarding just how much it's time, I'll just say that I built my current rig about three months before the U.S.'s invasion of Iraq, in 2003.

Yes, it's past time, and while my current computer has served me reliably and unwaveringly over the past four years, it's more than ready to take its place as my work-and-storage PC, and my old work-and-storage PC is now old enough to be donated. My AMD 2600 XP+ made me very happy when it was new, as did my Radeon 9500 128 MB, my 19" CRT monitor, my 512 MB of generic DDR RAM (at 400 Mhz, I think), and my two hard drives (80 GB and 40GB). I didn't feel like a gaming god, or anything, but for the last month of 2002, I was certainly passable.

Not so anymore, at least for someone (like me) with a passing interest in newer games and software. I suppose it was the fact that I can't install and play anything (not tolerably, anyway) released within the last 6 months that made me come to the realization that it's not worth putting off any longer.



I've been saving a bit from each pay cycle for a while ... sometimes going late on tuition payments to do so, but, meh. What are they going to do; demand that I return my knowledge of Japanese verbs and various classes of stars?

I've got a budget of $1200 to work with ... I'd be willing to go as high as $1600, if some particular component absolutely dazzles me, or I manage to convince myself to get a new hard drive and upgrade to Windows Vista (which I currently don't intend to do). This is the most money I've ever alotted myself for a computer -- I've never been one to incinerate my wallet, for a few fleeting moments of glory with the VERY brief-lived "top-end" of things. I managed to get my last PC together, for example, for around $650 - $800, depending on when you considered it truly "complete."

It's been so long, however, that I really feel that I want a more substantive upgrade. I intend to get a new monitor (21" minimum, flatscreen, wide), new speakers, and a sleek new case (with power supply).



The problem is, well ... caused by the same damn thing that makes me lust after new gadgetry in the first place: I haven't built a PC for personal use in four years! Back when mine was being pieced together, the clock speed of the processor was the be-all end-all measurement of performance. With the advent of multiple cores, I find myself far less familiar with the technology, and less able to "intuit" exactly what I'm getting when I dish out my money.

I'm also somewhat at a loss with advances in LCD flatscreen technology ("native" resolutions, contrast ratios, and all that jazz), the newer data stream formats (USB 2.0, PCI Express, etc), RAM bandwidths, motherboard chipsets ... I just haven't kept up as much as I would have liked.

Thus, I implore anyone who has more recent experience in this area ... what should I build? I do NOT want to skimp on the graphics processor or monitor ... those are two I've never really experienced in terms of luxury, and I want to change it this time around. I am a gamer, and while I don't care if I can play something slotted to be released in late 2008 at maximum settings, I do want something "more than decent." "More than decent" meaning not one of these $700+ super-new ones, but definitely a higher-up midrange unit.

Should I stick with onboard sound, or get a separate sound card? Would I really ever need multiple GPUs? Would 512 MB be enough memory for the GPU, or more than I need? How easy would it be to overclock one of these newer Intel dual core chips (the e6600, maybe), if I did a bit of scrimping in that area? I've read in some cases, you don't even need a special cooling arrangement.



Any component/brand suggestions you could give me would help. I'm doing a lot of research before I promise my cash anywhere, but I'm finding a lot of "hardware" blogs somewhat biased towards their sponsors ... and the geeks that frequent those forums are militantly biased towards their favorites, as well.


If you had $1200 - $1600, what would you build?

Thanks. ^^






Edit: I definitely want this CD/DVD drive suggested in this build, (and maybe this case and CPU, too) but the rest of the components they chose look rather "iffy," in my opinion.
 
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Ok, first off before I give you any advice on what to go with, what are you looking to do with your PC? At the moment I'd recommend on holding off on Vista until they work out some of the bugs by the way. I play FFXI on mine and it runs, weirder. Vista is very nice looking and a fun system, but leaves some things to be desired.
 
evanos said:
Ok, first off before I give you any advice on what to go with, what are you looking to do with your PC?
Click to expand...

Well, I already included the main thing in my post -- gaming -- I know that this is the first question to ask. My post is long, however, so to elaborate and consolidate, with the most process-intensive stuff first:

1) Gaming (I want things to look as NICE as possible on my budget, with the more recent releases)

2) DVD-Burning (I may be doing some data/video compression and encoding some time in the future)

3) Video-ripping (may want a TV tuner)

3) I play with databases a bit ... toying primarily with MS Access right now.

4) The basic trio of Internet, E-mail, and Word Processing ... but even the cheapest of builds can do that much, so I'm not worried.

evanos said:
At the moment I'd recommend on holding off on Vista until they work out some of the bugs by the way. I play FFXI on mine and it runs, weirder. Vista is very nice looking and a fun system, but leaves some things to be desired.
Click to expand...

Yes, so I've heard from many sources, including my little brother (who had it installed on a laptop he just bought). That's really the reason why I wanted to just stick with XP, for now ... always time to upgrade OS's in the future.
 
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Winklewil said:
Well, I already included the main thing in my post -- gaming -- I know that this is the first question to ask. My post is long, however, so to elaborate and consolidate, with the most process-intensive stuff first:

1) Gaming (I want things to look as NICE as possible on my budget, with the more recent releases)

2) DVD-Burning (I may be doing some data/video compression and encoding some time in the future)

3) Video-ripping (may want a TV tuner)

3) I play with databases a bit ... toying primarily with MS Access right now.

4) The basic trio of Internet, E-mail, and Word Processing ... but even the cheapest of builds can do that much, so I'm not worried.



Yes, so I've heard from many sources, including my little brother (who had it installed on a laptop he just bought). That's really the reason why I wanted to just stick with XP, for now ... always time to upgrade OS's in the future.
Click to expand...


Ok, well for what you want to do here is the core of what I wolud go with. I have been looking at graphics cards for about the last 20 minutes and haven't come up with that 1 that is the right price and has the stats that I would go with when i was building the PC. I'm going to elaborate a little on why I picked each part I did, and hopefully others that give you advice will do the same with their decisions.

Ok, starting with the motherboard here is the one that really suck out to me(going to post newegg link for all these because is the site I'm most used to).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130081

I picked this one based around the processor that I chose (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115016.)
This processor/motherboard combo is a very good combo for the price. I have been a long time AMD fan, but current technoligies give Intel the edge by a considerable amount for the price. The FSB on this processor can't be beat for the price and the northbridge on the board will allow you a lot of options with high-end graphics cards (I prefer Nvidia, not sure what you prefer, but I've been using SLI for my last 2 systems and its working perfect). Another nice thing about the processor is a very high L2 cache, only downside is that its shared, still can't agrue much with the preformance of this board/processor combo though. The biggest down side of this combo is the RAM on the motherboard is DDR2 800, which is not a bad set, but could be better and make more use out of your high FSB.

For RAM here is what I'd go with. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145038 This is a pretty nice set, pretty low CAS 4-4-4-12 (you could go with 3 for about $600 if you want, but that would put you well over budget). This is about as you can get for under 400 with DDR2800.

As I said before, I haven't been able to come up with a Graphics Card that I like yet. I'll edit this post when I see one I like.

As far as screens go, I looked around some at options. For me personally I'd go with this screen for what you are looking for. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001083
Pretty nice screen, decent viewing angle for a LCD, high resolution, and pretty nice refresh rate.

Personally, I would up my screen size to 26''+ and drop more money, but I love nice crisp screens and high resolutions. But, if you want to pop that much money on a screen you'll be cutting into your system preformance or breaking the budget. I hope this helps out some. I left out the small items like hard drives and other devices, but when I get some time to look those over I'll give you some ideas of what I would go with also.
 
For 1200 to 1600, you could easily go with an AMD FX-62 or maybe better processor, a top quality MOBO (I suggest ASUS), a single nvidia 8800 gt, and two gigs of ram. That leaves room for extras like dvd burning and such, and room to upgrade parts as they come out. Just be sure if you go AMD to get a socket AM2, since they should be using that form factor for a while. Pentium is slightly in the lead in popularity but AMD has always been more reliable to me.

As for monitor, I've always found that Samsung makes the best, but you pay for what you get. I personally own a 19" SyncMaster 930b, it's very nice and large enough for me, any larger and I start to lose myself in available space, so if you want to go larger than 19", I'd say just go with two of the largest you can get for the same price you'd pay for a really large screen, as split screen is always more user friendly than sitting 3 feet from a 30" screen.

Gaming requirements are getting higher and higher, so there's a few things that I would highly suggest.
1. Minimum 2 gigs of ram. And don't skimp on quality of ram, go with corsair or crucial.
2. Make sure your new graphics card can support Direct X 10, as it will be the standard for games in the next two years.
3. While Vista is a wait and see what they fix situation right now, many games will start being released as Vista Only, such as the Halo 2 PC release was recently.
4. Never buy top of the line for top of the line prices, it's never worth it in the long run. You're better off buying good enough for now, and trading up when the price is reasonable. Unless you make a living off how good your PC can render Unreal Tournament, you don't need a 1000 dollar graphics card or 8 gigs of overclocked ram.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I actually am going to go with the exact monitor that Evanos suggested, though the funny thing is that I found it (and decided on it) before I even read his reply. o_O It's a good one, though, and I can apply an employee discount towards it, too, so it's definitely going to be that.

As for the rest of the build, I've got an initial plan built up. This is what I'm thinking of:



CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 ( 2 x 2.4GHz - 1066FSB)

Motherboard: ECS PT890T Slots: 1x PCI-Express x16 slot; 1x PCI-Express x1 slot; 4x PCI slots Ports: 8x USB 2.0 ports (4 rear, 4 by headers); 2x PS/2 ports; 1x Serial port; 1x Parallel port; 1x RJ45 LAN port; Audio I/O jack Memory: 2x 240pin DDR2-533/400 DIMMs, Max capacity 4GB

Memory: 2 Atlas Precision Brand 1GB Dual Channel Capable PC4200 DDR2 (800 Mhz)

PSU: 680 Watt Power Supply

Hard Drive: 500GB 7200RPM SATA II U300

Optical Drive: LightScribe 18X DVD+/-RW Drive

GPU: nVidia GeForce 8800GTS 640MB

Sound: Onboard sound (I'm not sure how important this is, to me -- I hear a lot of talk about how unnecessary a dedicated sound card is for many users ... I can always change my mind later, if what I get is disappointing).

Monitor: Samsung 225BW 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor Display - BLACK

Speakers: Logitech X-230 Speaker System Two Satellites, One Subwoofer / 32 Watts RMS

Case: Undecided (PSU already chosen, so I won't be going expensive)


I do appreciate the AMD recommendation, Taurothar ... I used to be an AMD man, myself. I've got to go with the current benchmarks, though, and try an Intel. I'm also interested in the Corsair memory, but it's so much more expensive. :/

The memory I found, here, is the same bandwidth and capacity -- will it really make that much of a difference?
 
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Winklewil, if you haven't take a look at the Intel Core 2 e4300(Stock 1.8 Ghz). I'm running this processesor @ 3.0 Ghz, it's one hell of an overclocker for it's price ($117 on newegg.com) and multiplier(9x). I'd also check out some DDR2 800. Nice work on the Video Card, i'm drooling !
 
The real reason I boost the name of Corsair or Crucial is the ungodly levels of testing they do. There's almost no motherboard out there that they haven't tested and made sure that it works perfect with their memory. I've had compatibility issues with several unknown companies, and it's just paid off for me to go with the names I know.

Honestly, Corsair XMS2 memory shouldn't be much more expensive than the no-names, and you can trust it's gonna work right out of the box. I know they and Crucial have a lifetime warranty of some sorts on their sticks. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590 is the exact model I have in mine, and I've never had an issue with it, and plan on buying another pair in the next month or so.

Edit: Oh and for the Proc, good choice. I just put one of those in a friend's build and it's kicking the shit out of the games he plays. I still like my AMD, but I do more demanding multitasking and that's where it shines for me. Intel is doing some crazy stuff lately, but just wait for the AMD multi-cores, which aren't gonna be far off at all. Intel's Quad-Core isn't gonna hold a candle.
 
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prydaddy said:
Winklewil, if you haven't take a look at the Intel Core 2 e4300(Stock 1.8 Ghz). I'm running this processesor @ 3.0 Ghz, it's one hell of an overclocker for it's price ($117 on newegg.com) and multiplier(9x). I'd also check out some DDR2 800. Nice work on the Video Card, i'm drooling !
Click to expand...

Yeah, I did look at the earlier Core 2 models, but I eventually decided on E6600 ... it seemed to me to be the point at which dollar-to-power was perfectly balanced. I very much plan on DDR2, at 800 Mhz ... at least 2 GB (gonna upgrade to 4GB in the future). Yeah, that video card is hawt ... I knew I wanted it to be the "best" piece in my whole machine.


Taurothar said:
Honestly, Corsair XMS2 memory shouldn't be much more expensive than the no-names, and you can trust it's gonna work right out of the box. I know they and Crucial have a lifetime warranty of some sorts on their sticks. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145590 is the exact model I have in mine, and I've never had an issue with it, and plan on buying another pair in the next month or so.
Click to expand...

You know, that isn't expensive at all ... everything I've found so far has been over $200. You do get two of the 1 GB sticks at that price, right? I think I'm going to have to switch to that, after all. O_O


Taurothar said:
Oh and for the Proc, good choice. I just put one of those in a friend's build and it's kicking the shit out of the games he plays. I still like my AMD, but I do more demanding multitasking and that's where it shines for me. Intel is doing some crazy stuff lately, but just wait for the AMD multi-cores, which aren't gonna be far off at all. Intel's Quad-Core isn't gonna hold a candle.
Click to expand...
You may be right, and I'm always one to root for the underdog. If the multiple-core processors that AMD eventually releases end up putting them on top again, I may regret this decision ... but I'm also very tired of waiting to upgrade. :P



Any other thoughts?
 
Seems like the way you use your computers, you'd be better off with a Dell.

Normally builders keep using the same parts and just keep changing what breaks, or gets out dated. Seems like your the type of builder that tosses out the whole thing when your done. In situations like this, gettting the best deal for your money would be your first consideration, since form factor probably is not worth the expense if your going to simply toss out the computer when your done anyway.

Just my thoughts. There is nothing you could build that would match a Dell for the price. Especially if you wait for those free 21 inch monitor deals I keep seeing everyone get.
 
Darkdante said:
Seems like the way you use your computers, you'd be better off with a Dell.

Normally builders keep using the same parts and just keep changing what breaks, or gets out dated. Seems like your the type of builder that tosses out the whole thing when your done. In situations like this, gettting the best deal for your money would be your first consideration, since form factor probably is not worth the expense if your going to simply toss out the computer when your done anyway.

Just my thoughts. There is nothing you could build that would match a Dell for the price. Especially if you wait for those free 21 inch monitor deals I keep seeing everyone get.
Click to expand...

You may have a point in the beginning of your post, but my instincts are still that of a dedicated builder ... the last four or five years have been something of an anomaly, for me. What's more, even with that anomaly, I actually have upgraded a little over the years, part-by part. I've installed new hard drives (two burned out), new RAM, chipset fans, heatsink/CPU fans, and another power supply ... all very basic stuff, granted, but more than enough to make me worry about Dell's tendency to rely on proprietary parts.

I do, however, disagree very strongly with the idea that I couldn't build anything to "match" a Dell, at that price. That's utter nonsense, and anyone with a lot of experience in frugal PC-building can tell you that. I've priced my planned build out very carefully, and the closest Dell-built machine I could come up with ends up $200 more, at a minimum, with worse parts ... this is including the price of the monitor I've selected. Dell doesn't offer free monitors ... they "include" them. I assure you; they're making a profit on every atom of metal they're shipping.



What's more, I find pre-built machines to be cramped inside, and difficult to navigate -- put simply, they don't WANT you tinkering around in there, because they want you to just come back to them and buy another when it's time to upgrade.

I really like the comfort of knowing every component in my PC, in-and-out ... this way, I know every part's model, make, brand, and more importantly ... its personal history. In piecing my rig together myself, I touch every component, install it myself, plug everything in, watch it come to life and take its first breath...



In short, I want to be my PC's "father" ... not owner. God, I'm a geek. o_O
 
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You don't get the deals from the Dell website itself, it's normally coupons.

And yeah, I used to think like this till I shopped around. They do give free monitors, but the deals expire rather quickly, this year I've bought 3 computers so far from Dell with "free" 21 inch monitors. The specs on paper were as fast as computers I've been building at $900 without monitor, and using reputable companies for parts. The Dell's were $600-$700.

And it helps when you can buy through the bussiness end of Dell. Ask a friend who has a bussiness they might be able to help you.

Personally I would not buy such a computer, but thats simply because I like to "tinker" with no hassels. But they all seemed to be overjoyed with thier Dell's.

http://www.notebookreview.com/dellCoupon.asp

A link for you to read about Dell Coupons. Hardly a secret but a nice way to get a big discount.
 
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Don't forget to plan contingency for Screws, Cables, Cable Ties and Braiding etc. I always spend right to my last penny, then realise I don't have any cables to make everything work...

Coolermaster do some nice cases, as do Akasa and a few others, and you may want to replace the stock heatsink on your CPU if you're going to over clock it, as the ones that come with the CPU are ok at stock levels, but you start risking overheating when you start over clocking. You might wanna go for a more silent approach, I know when I build again I'm going to try get my rig running as quietly as possible, and as unlike this big brute of a wind tunnel I have now.
 
Well, my motherboard and CPU (at least) are ordered, and on their way to me. The rest of the components would be, too, but I had some strange problems with Newegg needing some additional verification on my card ... I provided all information accurately, and it didn't go through.

So, now, I have to wait until business starts tomorrow to contact my bank, and find out what the Hell is going on. I'm a bit miffed, but one more day won't make all that much difference. At the very least, my order is placed, and my build is locked in. I appreciate all the suggestions and advice ... at least with the RAM and monitor, it really did influence my choices.


Blabj said:
Coolermaster do some nice cases, as do Akasa and a few others, and you may want to replace the stock heatsink on your CPU if you're going to over clock it, as the ones that come with the CPU are ok at stock levels, but you start risking overheating when you start over clocking. You might wanna go for a more silent approach, I know when I build again I'm going to try get my rig running as quietly as possible, and as unlike this big brute of a wind tunnel I have now.
Click to expand...
Funny you should mention that, but I actually did pick out a Coolermaster case from Newegg ... not an expensive one, by any means, but something I think will be adequate. I actually was interested in overclocking (just a little, at first, and then I'll see if I'm brave enough to push it farther), so I also threw in for some additional cooling solutions ... including extra case fans. I'm very familiar with irritating loudness (unfortunately), and I know that'll just add to the noise. I'll just have to see how that turns out, and if I can live with it.


I think I'm covered on cables. I'm also a huge slob, in that I never bother tying any of them down. I think I'll be okay.
 
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