Can you counter if you have shadows up?

Achelois said no at one point, which was why he stopped subbing nin. I've never tested it myself though.
 
I'd say no, since you technically need to be able to suffer getting hit to counter. Look at it this way, in a chain of one of those background number checks the game performs. Just assuming, but this is what I think the order they go in is:

Evade> Parry > Shadows > Counter > Guard/Shield > Damage.


You can Counter with a Paladin covering, though. Since you can still suffer a hit. I found this to be EXTREMELY effective with Counterstance back with my Static with Atfgame and Ingwe.

So no, shadows means no chance of countering. Blink? Yes. Stoneskin or Invincible? Yes.

Theres also the rumour about Counter being tailored to your Guard Skill, which I'm half-inclined to believe in, with all my guard+ gear on(Putting me at 205,) I see a noticable jump in counter rate. But then again, it could just be coincidence.
 
Bah, I saw avenger's on the earring list when trying to figure out what to buy next, and thought, "Whoa, if those actually worked on a thief with shadows up...that'd be insane functional evasion."

No such luck, eh? My goal is to build a soloing set I guess, since I have nothing else to do :?
 
Erm normal blink would fall in with the same check as guard and shield. Forgot to add that. :?
 
So as a thief the only way to boost my functional evasion without boosting evasion is to parry...yay. I think mine's 105 or something. I get the feeling that equipping evasion+ is starting to lose its effectiveness on even matches.
 
No you can't since it's not hitting you to counter it's hit!! MEHAHAHAHAHAHH ( i'm at school <3) :P
 
I'm thinking the best way to level your parrying (besides leveling PLD or something :lol:) would be to equip a bunch of -evasion equipment, find out what level your parrying would be capped at (i.e. 105 is the cap for a level 34 THF), then go find mobs you'd exp on at a couple levels higher than that. Go engage them but turn around so you're not attacking, and just let them try and hit you. Then just continue to move up the levels in mobs as your parrying skill rises.

What I'm not sure of is if parrying skill+ equipment (parrying knives, THF AF hat, etc...) would help or hurt with this. Can someone clarify?
 
Kyrial said:
I'm thinking the best way to level your parrying (besides leveling PLD or something :lol:) would be to equip a bunch of -evasion equipment, find out what level your parrying would be capped at (i.e. 105 is the cap for a level 34 THF), then go find mobs you'd exp on at a couple levels higher than that. Go engage them but turn around so you're not attacking, and just let them try and hit you. Then just continue to move up the levels in mobs as your parrying skill rises.

What I'm not sure of is if parrying skill+ equipment (parrying knives, THF AF hat, etc...) would help or hurt with this. Can someone clarify?
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Yeah this is the right track. One thing I would disagree with though...The thing about turning around and not attacking. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think to get parry skill, you have to be facing the MOBs and actively engaged.

As much Evasion down gear as you can get, and as much Parry up gear as you can get. AGI also helps Parry. Then again, it also helps Evasion. That's gray area to me. Can't hurt to get 2 or more MOBs all swinging at you...But not too many ^^

Then there's the obligatory, "Level a tank job" "advice" that some would give. I would agree, parry will level much faster that way though.
 
Sneakypants said:
Then there's the obligatory, "Level a tank job" "advice" that some would give. I would agree, parry will level much faster that way though.
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At level 74 I have 175 parrying skill, the cap for pld at level 75 is like 225 I think. It's not the best way to skill up parrying, and ninja wouldn't work too well either because you'll be evading a lot of hits as opposed to parrying them. Even with my parrying capped on nin from my pld's parrying skill, I still only parry 1-3 times a fight on mandys in the jungle.

Leveling a tank job would help shield (if pld) and evasion waaaay more than parrying (evasion capped within the first few fights, and shield at 247 base skill)

Sneaky's plan about leveling parrying is what I suggest... capped parrying (with an A rating in the skill) will let you parry a few times a fight, especially if your EM fights take a long time to do.
 
Actually, you don't need to level a tank job to cap your evasion. I capped my evasion on my whm(200 skill at 75) without specifically trying to do it. I've also been capping it on my monk every time I level, although that's due to me "tanking" in parties.
 
Actually, you don't need to level a tank job to cap your evasion. I capped my evasion on my whm(200 skill at 75) without specifically trying to do it. I've also been capping it on my monk every time I level, although that's due to me "tanking" in parties.
 
Actually, you don't need to level a tank job to cap your evasion. I capped my evasion on my whm(200 skill at 75) without specifically trying to do it. I've also been capping it on my monk every time I level, although that's due to me "tanking" in parties.
 
Yeah I wasn't actually suggesting that you do level a tank job. Many people just say that in regards to leveling parry and I find it funny.

Although, if you're planning on leveling a tank job, I'd still say it's the easiest way to level parry, considering that you're killing two birds with one stone.

Taking the same 2 birds with one stone idea, coupled with Kyrial's suggestion that you fight MOBs slightly above your current level, also look for MOBs that are the appropriate level that might actually be worth farming...It'll take the sting out of getting half a point of parry skill-ups in an hour if you can manage to at least make some money as well. ^^
 
>< lag like you wouldn't believe
 
When I solo and parry, when the skill goes up it's usually by .3-.5. I don't know if getting a bunch of .1's on the appropriate level would be faster or slower than getting rare but huge skillups on DC's, which is my main soloing target these days, especially considering you can triple-dip when soloing--crystals, drops, and seals. I don't think capped parrying is going to magically make EM's "easy" to solo as a thief, so I probably won't go out and specifically try to level it. There's a shadowing sweetspot that I can't get past on dc's yet. High dc's hit me too fast to just rely on ustu:ichi wearing, then casting utsu:ni, then waiting two shadows before recasting utsu:ichi to confer total meleeing immunity. Sometimes they hit me 3 times and I'm stuck with 17 seconds of cooldown on both spells >.< At that point against a high DC you're spamming sleep bolts hoping that you hit him before he hits you.
 
Bajaratt said:
Actually, you don't need to level a tank job to cap your evasion. I capped my evasion on my whm(200 skill at 75) without specifically trying to do it. I've also been capping it on my monk every time I level, although that's due to me "tanking" in parties.
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Pfft, whms make the best tanks in the game! They can hella pull hate from anything o,o;
 
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