celesia is a thief

[Firestreak]

Obviously not. They had plenty of people up to continue kiting him around until they could recover. I've seen it happen many times on Kirin where a lot of people go down due to one reason or another and 3-4 people can keep him occupied while others recover. You totally stole that Kirin, no question about it.

Some wipes are recoverable, some aren't. It depends where people die, what jobs are alive, ext. When you fight the pops in the very middle of the room, as had happened in that situation, then Kirin and company return to the center upon losing hate.

To kite a pop you need some sort of job that can well... kite it. Some sort of survavability. Someone who can either run faster than the kited mobs, someone to gravity the mob, ext. BoL had in that case too many Kirin + 3 additional summoned gods. The corpses were all in the middle, meaning they must all be kited without 1 death to recover. In my opinion, which I deem expert, this is a loss. From the shouts of some BoL members telling people to take it, this is a loss.

The point that there was some merit to against us was about the conflict within the time slot, which preempted them popping Kirin early when they weren't completely ready. Mostly our fault for telling them we weren't going to pop another Kirin anyway so take their time.

 

[Arien]

In my opinion, which I deem expert, this is a loss.

Funniest thing I've seen all day, thx for the laugh. :biggrin:

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm sorry but if you can read and understand plain english this looks like a simple question... I wonder if UnderworldNA will let this slide?

Now if that quote would have read... I don't think UnderworldNA should let this slide, then you might have a point. Until that question becomes a statement, I have no idea where you are coming from... :crazy:

No, just asking the question alone is an implication that he thinks something should be done. Firestreak understood this the second he got into this thread, as did others. Both Yanzi and Darklion were acting as though UnderworldNA were somehow culpable for anything celesia did and that something should be done. Did they come out an say it explicitly every time they did it? No, but from the tone they used and how they phrased their questions/comments, it's obvious what they're hinting at.

This is another thing that firestreak has said that got lost in pointless examples and convoluted arguments. You don't have to outright insult someone to do damage to their reputation. It's a passive-aggressive method of attack that's difficult to respond to.. The only way to effectively stop it is to do what we did, bring what they were saying into light and squash any damage to our good name. The fact that you can't see the blatant implications of their "innocent" questions means that you're not the best person to be arguing in their defense.

Remember, 10% of your message is what you say, the other 90% is how you say it.

 

[Firestreak]

Funniest thing I've seen all day, thx for the laugh. :biggrin:

No offense but I've been up in sky probably before you started your first character. I was up in sky with Villarel on the original linkshell which died twice and reformed twice to become the one you go to sky in, so don't take my opinion on the matter too lightly.

 

[kriist]

No, just asking the question alone is an implication that he thinks something should be done. Firestreak understood this the second he got into this thread, as did others. Both Yanzi and Darklion were acting as though UnderworldNA were somehow culpable for anything celesia did and that something should be done. Did they come out an say it explicitly every time they did it? No, but from the tone they used and how they phrased their questions/comments, it's obvious what they're hinting at.

This is another thing that firestreak has said that got lost in pointless examples and convoluted arguments. You don't have to outright insult someone to do damage to their reputation. It's a passive-aggressive method of attack that's difficult to respond to.. The only way to effectively stop it is to do what we did, bring what they were saying into light and squash any damage to our good name. The fact that you can't see the blatant implications of their "innocent" questions means that you're not the best person to be arguing in their defense.

IMO I guess it's all in the interpretation of it.

Like I said....

 

[yanzi]

What, of 260 million Americans, some are bad people. Therefore all linkshells are completely unaccountable for anything their members do? This is a sensible argument?

it depends. you somehow associate me being in valks with the acceptance of dua into valks. along the lines of just because i'm in valks, somehow i had enough power to bring dua in and accept him. so i give the example about the american army killing innocent people in iraq and then somehow because the group (americans) has more people, they can't possibly have any say at all or have any responsibility at all for the actions of the country.
i'm sure hamas can't be held responsible for the actions of suicide bombers because there are way too many hamas and no way to account for them all right?

 

[yanzi]

Can you show me a quote where Yanzi said it was ok that Dua took the SH? On top of that can you show me anything that states Yanzi had anything to do with the recruitment of Dua into the Valkyrs LS?

i must be some secret leader of valks, and this was all a conspiracy of mine. now that you know kriist, i'm going to have to kick you.

 

[yanzi]

I guess you were wrong. Yanzi DID question weather or not the LS was going to do something about it. You are right Yanzi did not originally bring it up, but in fact did ask the question.

someone's got to do the dirty work and ask the question. again, is it that wrong that i'm curious as to what happens? we obviously haven't heard any more from celesia and maybe his fellow linkshell mates would help to shed some light on what happened.
seriously, if i had wanted to make a flame about underworld, the topic would have been "OMGZ UNDERWORLDNA IS A BUNCH OF THIEVES".

 

[Sirelrohir]

lol, this post has been derailed big time..

 

[Firestreak]

it depends. you somehow associate me being in valks with the acceptance of dua into valks. along the lines of just because i'm in valks, somehow i had enough power to bring dua in and accept him. so i give the example about the american army killing innocent people in iraq and then somehow because the group (americans) has more people, they can't possibly have any say at all or have any responsibility at all for the actions of the country.
i'm sure hamas can't be held responsible for the actions of suicide bombers because there are way too many hamas and no way to account for them all right?

Well there's a few things wrong with what you say. For one, it's not intentional when the US army kills innocent people. Another, while I am an American citizen, I'm not in the army. You're born American, you are generally forced to be an American for 18 years. The army is volunteer. If I was a volunteer soldier, and I learned soldiers were intentionally killing civilians and not being court martialed and jailed, I would quit.

Joining an endgame LS is actually much more like joining a gang than anything. Small size, everyone has a vioice, We all have our own turf, allies and enemies. Our own sets of rules and everybody knows everybody.

 

[yanzi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestreak
So it's cool to Yanzi if people in Perfect get screwed over as long as they aren't Valkyr members? =p


My original post to spawn the controvesy. Another simple question. =P

and i've already responded to that. there may have been controversy regarding non-valk members in perfect. and i have made it known to leadership.
unfortunately, i run neither shell and have no voice in either shell. so just by being members of these shells should not be attributed to me agreeing to everything the shells do in the same way that i would say you live in america, you must be agreeing to everything bush does and be responsible for everything he does.

 

[Elemmire]

i must be some secret leader of valks, and this was all a conspiracy of mine. now that you know kriist, i'm going to have to kick you.

we all know you are really a member of the Illuminati D: don't lie taru boy! controlling the scenes behind them D: how sinister

 

[yanzi]

Remember, 10% of your message is what you say, the other 90% is how you say it.

and through this internet somehow you can tell exactly what i'm trying to say 100% of the time?

 

[Firestreak]

Also, at some point every country is part of some evil act. Simply existing means I must join some country. I have spent periods of time without any linkshell, endgame or social. Until one came along that I felt meshed with my own values I chose to remain alone.

You can't live in a place without a country. All habitable landmasses are claimed. I'd need an enourmous amount of wealth to just buy land off a country like an island persay and claim it independant. This is a reason that a real life example and in game example aren't really comparable. People's needs to survive are different. And if you don't like the game world, you can just log off.

 

[Bajaratt]

and through this internet somehow you can tell exactly what i'm trying to say 100% of the time?

Do you even understand what I said?

 

[Arien]

No offense but I've been up in sky probably before you started your first character. I was up in sky with Villarel on the original linkshell which died twice and reformed twice to become the one you go to sky in, so don't take my opinion on the matter too lightly.

I hightly doubt that, but if that feeds your ego then think whatever you wish. And yes, I do take your opinion lighty, considering it will mostly likely change or turn into something else in the near future. GTFO with that I've been doing this longer, childish shit. You've already proved your lack of knowledge on many topic at this website. Maybe you should stop now. It would do us all some good, especially yourself. :tup:

 

[Firestreak]

I hightly doubt that, but if that feeds your ego then think whatever you wish. And yes, I do take your opinion lighty, considering it will mostly likely change or turn into something else in the near future. GTFO with that I've been doing this longer, childish shit. You've already proved your lack of knowledge on many topic at this website. Maybe you should stop now. It would do us all some good, especially yourself. :tup:

You remember that Paladin of mine you leveled up in the same group? Somehow, he had koenig hand/head at lvl 30. So yes I do believe the chances high I had been in sky before you even began playing.

Next, when do my opinions change? The problem is you're too idiotic to undestand them, so I need to explain again, and again, and again.

And where do I prove my lack of knowledge on this website.... linkz prz? How about a single example for your claim.

 

[yanzi]

Well there's a few things wrong with what you say. For one, it's not intentional when the US army kills innocent people. Another, while I am an American citizen, I'm not in the army. You're born American, you are generally forced to be an American for 18 years. The army is volunteer. If I was a volunteer soldier, and I learned soldiers were intentionally killing civilians and not being court martialed and jailed, I would quit.

doesn't matter if you aren't in the army. according to your reasoning just by being an american, as long as americans do bad things, you're supposed to be held accountable. in the same way i'm somehow responsible for valks accepting dua?

 

[yanzi]

Also, at some point every country is part of some evil act. Simply existing means I must join some country. I have spent periods of time without any linkshell, endgame or social. Until one came along that I felt meshed with my own values I chose to remain alone.

You can't live in a place without a country. All habitable landmasses are claimed. I'd need an enourmous amount of wealth to just buy land off a country like an island persay and claim it independant. This is a reason that a real life example and in game example aren't really comparable. People's needs to survive are different. And if you don't like the game world, you can just log off.

antarctica isn't owned by any country. you can go live there.
buying an island is still possible. you only choose not to do so.

 

[Firestreak]

doesn't matter if you aren't in the army. according to your reasoning just by being an american, as long as americans do bad things, you're supposed to be held accountable. in the same way i'm somehow responsible for valks accepting dua?

But you're BORN an American, you aren't BORN a Valkyrs member. You signed up and joined.

And you HAVE to be part of some country. You don't HAVE to be part of any endgame linkshell. It's why the two examples are incongruant.