Chron and Outcast... winners...

[Mirewen]

I recall back in my Fury days we were camping Ullikummi and then we saw a pair of Red Mages duoing it. They were doing it the slow and easy way and our leader said leave it alone unless they get in trouble and wipe.

It was frustrating however for a group in a sky shell needing that drop to watch two people taking ages to kill a NM.

Yea, I think it's ok to claim if the people duo'ing/solo'ing wipe or if it gets reset somehow. "Stealing" it when it's at like, 50% health from someone who is actively engaging it is just silly.

 

[Cletus]

I'm not sure where I read this, but supposedly there is a solo strat to Despot where he will not go yellow. It does however require a bit of skill and patience.

If you build up hate with charm/kite on despot, you can have an HQ tiger jug pet DOT him. This should work especially well with a SMN duo. It might take a little longer than using flamingos, and I think you burn through 8 or so jugs, but you don't have to worry about him going yellow. Worth a try since you've had him stolen more than once.

 

[Reauland]

Sorry to hear about that, Honcho

To add a couple of additional words of wisdom onto Duff's, there's a macro I use for hotswaps that involves having the mob tracked through widescan. True, it does involve taking a moment to pop open your widescan list and locking onto Despot, but it saves a lot of retargetting woes:

/ja Charm <stnpc>
/pet Fight <scan>

Provided Despot's close enough when you use Leave and charm your next pet, it instantly sends the pet at him in as close of an imitation to Smn as we can get. Keep your staff out and stay engaged just like Duff suggests and you shouldn't have any trouble keeping claim.

if its yellow, voke the fellow......

bsts always say that its a glitch, but they gave you and your pet independent hate tables for a reason. if it was a "glitch" i wouldnt have been around for 7 years. They left it in for a reason, my guess is that they dont want 1 person to have the ability to mindlessly throw countless flamingos at despot with little or no risk to themselves. Likewise, how they changed the hate system so that people couldn't kite endlessly without making actions against a mob.

You were not for any moment "soloing it just fine" you were zombie-ing pets at it, but imho each pet death and yellow name is a failed solo attempt

If you really think there's anything mindless about Bst, anything at all, solo Despot Bst-style for us sometime while carrying on fully lucid conversations with your LS, various /tells, fending off the asshats killing pets out from under you, and all the while dealing with mis-charms and an NM that can literally kill you in about 4 untimely swipes.

Then tell us how mindless it is.

And for the record, those "countless flamingos"? Let me count em for ya. On average, it takes me somewhere around 25-30 pet swaps to kill Despot, each pet lasting about 30-45 seconds. Do the math and compare that to how long it takes a Rdm to solo him, yet a Rdm is never in any real danger of losing claim considering how often they have to cast on him in order to keep DoTs up along with Gravity and Bind; and they never have to draw a weapon.

Bsts losing claim comes off sounding more and more like a glitch to this Bst. My guess is that's it's something so hard to work out that it's never been considered worth the effort it would take to fix it.

Final word - try it sometime, if you got the sack, and tell me you don't feel cheated when someone snags it out from under you.

 

[Master Honcho]

Sorry to hear about that, Honcho

To add a couple of additional words of wisdom onto Duff's, there's a macro I use for hotswaps that involves having the mob tracked through widescan. True, it does involve taking a moment to pop open your widescan list and locking onto Despot, but it saves a lot of retargetting woes:

/ja Charm <stnpc>
/pet Fight <scan>

Provided Despot's close enough when you use Leave and charm your next pet, it instantly sends the pet at him in as close of an imitation to Smn as we can get. Keep your staff out and stay engaged just like Duff suggests and you shouldn't have any trouble keeping claim.



If you really think there's anything mindless about Bst, anything at all, solo Despot Bst-style for us sometime while carrying on fully lucid conversations with your LS, various /tells, fending off the asshats killing pets out from under you, and all the while dealing with mis-charms and an NM that can literally kill you in about 4 untimely swipes.

Then tell us how mindless it is.

And for the record, those "countless flamingos"? Let me count em for ya. On average, it takes me somewhere around 25-30 pet swaps to kill Despot, each pet lasting about 30-45 seconds. Do the math and compare that to how long it takes a Rdm to solo him, yet a Rdm is never in any real danger of losing claim considering how often they have to cast on him in order to keep DoTs up along with Gravity and Bind; and they never have to draw a weapon.

Bsts losing claim comes off sounding more and more like a glitch to this Bst. My guess is that's it's something so hard to work out that it's never been considered worth the effort it would take to fix it.

Final word - try it sometime, if you got the sack, and tell me you don't feel cheated when someone snags it out from under you.

lol real ftw... nicely said....indeed...

 

[Dani]

Bsts losing claim comes off sounding more and more like a glitch to this Bst. My guess is that's it's something so hard to work out that it's never been considered worth the effort it would take to fix it.

This sounds like the case to me. There's actually a gaming developer term for this called "WNF", Will Not Fix. A lot of times known issues are left in a game because a) the submission deadline for the games release is near and they don't have the time to fix it or b) they have no clue what is causing the issue. As long as the "glitch" or "bug" doesn't crash the game, most developers don't care. Thanks SE!

 

[Reauland]

This sounds like the case to me. There's actually a gaming developer term for this called "WNF", Will Not Fix. A lot of times known issues are left in a game because a) the submission deadline for the games release is near and they don't have the time to fix it or b) they have no clue what is causing the issue. As long as the "glitch" or "bug" doesn't crash the game, most developers don't care. Thanks SE!

Yah, that's exactly what I think. The way I see it, the devs were faced with this conundrum:

1. No one player should be able to lay claim to more than one monster at a time.
2. Charm is a job ability that either puts a monster under the player's control when successful, or claims the monster as an enemy when unsuccessful. Either way, it claims a mob.

Since Beastmaster is a job that relies on claiming multiple monsters, we're basically just SOL when it comes to maintaining claim while swapping pets. Sure, there are slick little tricks that can minimize the risk of a mob being taken by someone who doesn't recognize a Bst's solo attempt for what it really is (for instance, what if Smns suffered from the same issue - would they be included in your dead pet=failed attempt, Motley? The only real difference that I can see is that Smns rely on their hp and mp to solo a mob, while Bsts rely on their hp for the most part.), but the risk is always there.

 

[Lecreuset]

so, i was in sky...so we pop despot, im on bst, grasinthor on smn...as you can prolly guess it went yellow for a sec...they claimed.

Bumped into you the other night and you don't seem like a bad dude, so take this in stride as I'm sure you've taken the preceeding posts.

Dead horse argument states that the claim system has always been buggy with pet jobs like that.

You flat KNOW that it CAN and likely WILL go yellow at a given point.

Regardless of my respect for pet jobs, the power at their hands and the skill it can take to perform many of the more difficult feats of the job...you go in there knowing your claim weakness.

Knowing this weakness negates the right to really gripe when someone snipes it from you. The attitude given was unnecessary, but can you really say it's unexpected?

I know you have RDM leveled.

If you're that keen or hopeful on a Despot pop, I'd suggest using that, or partnering with someone who can keep claim on the NM while you pet swap. It might make your FoV a bit more of an inconvenience, but if you really want the NM that bad...

You know the flaw, but you still go in there with a hand tied behind your back and you're ticked when someone uses two hands to rip something from the one hand you're holding onto it with?

Chillax, and like I said go back with a job that you can handle it with on your own or a partner who can hold the NM during pet swaps.

GL w/the next pop man.

 

[Master Honcho]

Bumped into you the other night and you don't seem like a bad dude, so take this in stride as I'm sure you've taken the preceeding posts.

Dead horse argument states that the claim system has always been buggy with pet jobs like that.

You flat KNOW that it CAN and likely WILL go yellow at a given point.

Regardless of my respect for pet jobs, the power at their hands and the skill it can take to perform many of the more difficult feats of the job...you go in there knowing your claim weakness.

Knowing this weakness negates the right to really gripe when someone snipes it from you. The attitude given was unnecessary, but can you really say it's unexpected?

I know you have RDM leveled.

If you're that keen or hopeful on a Despot pop, I'd suggest using that, or partnering with someone who can keep claim on the NM while you pet swap. It might make your FoV a bit more of an inconvenience, but if you really want the NM that bad...

You know the flaw, but you still go in there with a hand tied behind your back and you're ticked when someone uses two hands to rip something from the one hand you're holding onto it with?

Chillax, and like I said go back with a job that you can handle it with on your own or a partner who can hold the NM during pet swaps.

GL w/the next pop man.

yea, honestly it wasnt that big of a deal to get despot that day hence i was xping with my friend... and ya i know the risk... it's just i camp despot alot... ive camped that ass for 7 hrs before. dont ask me why. im asking myself the same question... so to get one stolen just.,.. sucks... it sucks bad... i may have overreacted when talkin shit back to them.. i was pretty pissed but oh well...

i got haidate the other day so maybe i'll slow down on despot... or maybe not... guess i just gotta hope if i am on bst that those guys wont be around...

 

[Lecreuset]

yea, honestly it wasnt that big of a deal to get despot that day hence i was xping with my friend... and ya i know the risk... it's just i camp despot alot... ive camped that ass for 7 hrs before. dont ask me why. im asking myself the same question... so to get one stolen just.,.. sucks... it sucks bad... i may have overreacted when talkin shit back to them.. i was pretty pissed but oh well...

i got haidate the other day so maybe i'll slow down on despot... or maybe not... guess i just gotta hope if i am on bst that those guys wont be around...

Grats on the Haidate. ;D

 

[motley]

Sorry to hear about that, Honcho

To add a couple of additional words of wisdom onto Duff's, there's a macro I use for hotswaps that involves having the mob tracked through widescan. True, it does involve taking a moment to pop open your widescan list and locking onto Despot, but it saves a lot of retargetting woes:

/ja Charm <stnpc>
/pet Fight <scan>

Provided Despot's close enough when you use Leave and charm your next pet, it instantly sends the pet at him in as close of an imitation to Smn as we can get. Keep your staff out and stay engaged just like Duff suggests and you shouldn't have any trouble keeping claim.



If you really think there's anything mindless about Bst, anything at all, solo Despot Bst-style for us sometime while carrying on fully lucid conversations with your LS, various /tells, fending off the asshats killing pets out from under you, and all the while dealing with mis-charms and an NM that can literally kill you in about 4 untimely swipes.

Then tell us how mindless it is.

And for the record, those "countless flamingos"? Let me count em for ya. On average, it takes me somewhere around 25-30 pet swaps to kill Despot, each pet lasting about 30-45 seconds. Do the math and compare that to how long it takes a Rdm to solo him, yet a Rdm is never in any real danger of losing claim considering how often they have to cast on him in order to keep DoTs up along with Gravity and Bind; and they never have to draw a weapon.

Bsts losing claim comes off sounding more and more like a glitch to this Bst. My guess is that's it's something so hard to work out that it's never been considered worth the effort it would take to fix it.

Final word - try it sometime, if you got the sack, and tell me you don't feel cheated when someone snags it out from under you.

you can only claim one mob at a time, if you perform an action against another mob the monster you were fighting goes yellow, this is true for ANY job, it doesn't matter how many fucking flamingo swaps you have to do. when you target and attempt to charm the flamingo you lose despot.... it is not a bug, and thats why SE wont fix it.

If i was fighting any NM and I changed targets to kill a link, do you think ANYONE would hesitate to take the NM??? maybe some people , but i sure as hell wouldn't be crying about it. Id say "I got a link and lost claim" and people would say "that's too bad"

You have a job that was given enormous ability to solo some of the toughest NMs in the game, instead of being grateful you QQ about the drawbacks. I would only feel cheated if they waited around for the HP to get really low and then stole it

 

[Reauland]

you can only claim one mob at a time, if you perform an action against another mob the monster you were fighting goes yellow, this is true for ANY job, it doesn't matter how many fucking flamingo swaps you have to do. when you target and attempt to charm the flamingo you lose despot.... it is not a bug, and thats why SE wont fix it.

If i was fighting any NM and I changed targets to kill a link, do you think ANYONE would hesitate to take the NM??? maybe some people , but i sure as hell wouldn't be crying about it. Id say "I got a link and lost claim" and people would say "that's too bad"

You have a job that was given enormous ability to solo some of the toughest NMs in the game, instead of being grateful you QQ about the drawbacks. I would only feel cheated if they waited around for the HP to get really low and then stole it

I don't "QQ" about shit, pal, never have. I know the job's strengths and weaknesses far better than you probably ever will, and I'm very grateful for what the job allows me to accomplish both for my friends as well as myself. The fact that someone is perfectly capable of waiting around and swiping it out from under me at whatever percentage of health they think they can beat it at is sort of the point - I ain't dead yet, and I'm still fighting. You steal a mob out from under me or kill off my potential pets, engaging in one of the few remaining forms of MPK, I'll think you're an asshole, but you'll never hear one word from me. I'll just remember you . . .

For a. Very. Long. Time.

If you want to compare it to swapping targets to deal with a link, fine. How broken would it really be for a successful Charm to not result in a loss of claim? Not too broken, in my humble opinion, and it would stop claim-spamming asshats from taking something I'm perfectly capable of killing, all while hiding behind the semantics of what it means to "claim" a mob. Let's not forget that even the best-geared Bst there is will still mis-charm 5% of the time under optimum circumstances (hell, I mis-charmed a Wild Hare the other day . . .), so they live and die by the law of averages just like everyone else and can have their mobs taken at the whim of anyone.

Just hang out and wait for some Rdm to accidentally engage and disengage during a solo attempt and take that, too. By your logic, that's fair game as well. Their mistake, granted, but nonetheless something you and those who agree with you should be looking to exploit, so don't stop spammin! ^^b

(btw, I'm lookin at this as just good Flameboard fun. I've met you in-game, Motley, and you've always seemed like a decent enough guy to me; however, it's been a long time since I got a chance to lace into a topic very near and dear to my heart )

 

[Tanjer]

I agree though, Fury had a strict policy on not claiming upon yellow unless it was RMT, the courtesy wasn't always payed back though Danish guy... remember?

You are correct my friend. Trigger fingers itched a couple of times, wanting to be a jerk to those being jerks to us. But for some reason it always feels good to not lower yourself to their level. And hey.......we didnt lose much up there.

Gotta love when you call me Danish guy lmfao <3 Jyak.

 

[jyakotsu]

You are correct my friend. Trigger fingers itched a couple of times, wanting to be a jerk to those being jerks to us. But for some reason it always feels good to not lower yourself to their level. And hey.......we didnt lose much up there.

Gotta love when you call me Danish guy lmfao <3 Jyak.

haha I loved your reaction especially when shouting it in Whitegate... WOOOOOOOOOO lmao!

 

[motley]

understood healthy debate is healthy


Ill give you that a sucessful charm probably shouldnt cause yellow, but im putting myself in the devs shoes (personally I think the devs are lazy fucks that would rather make excuses than admit that things need fixing, but lets assume they aren't for a moment).

I know with despot that the area is tight and not having much room makes you vulnerable to attack....

eh.... either I don't have the energy or I don't care enough to retort, ive tried 3 times to finish the above paragraph with what I think is a valid argument.. But as any good debater does I can predict several options for you to come back with a response to it.

In short, the devs have an agenda for each job, but then the burden of blame for this issue (regardless if the job is being played they way they intended) falls on them to either answer to it or fix it. I can think of several reasons for them to NOT fix it... Im sure this has been brought to their attention at one panel or another, Id really like to know what they said, maybe someone thats been to a panel can shed some light.

As in chess, even if you aren't beat, sometimes its just better to tip your king..

Honcho, reau, GL out there.

 

[Lyall]

understood healthy debate is healthy

Honcho, reau, GL out there.

I love a happy ending. Good read. Double-A-plus. Would read again. There is an inherent "problem" with the claiming system when you play a pet job, and for the most part people understand it, but when you get into the srz bznz side of the game, its easy to talk about how its always been in the game, etc. Still, its nice to see both sides of the argument talked about civilly.

Grats on Cat-pants, Honcho, and good luck up there in the future.

 

[Master Honcho]

thanks i know how to solve my problem ill just solo despot by melee bst/nin next time.... thatl work ..... right... RIGHT?!?!

 

[Daveee]

If the pt that tries to kill wipes, we claim it.
If the pt still have people standing, we wait.

This is how I always deal with NMs, however, even by following these rules, I got yelled once. After watching 3 people wiped to a NM that I easily dualed, friend of mine claimed it and we killed it. Then.... classic cursing.

Happened in Beadeaux (S), on the Imp nm

To Hon, mannnnnnnn, get your assssss somewhere else lol, will you ever get tired of sky? hahaha

Sorry to see that happen to you tho, but as we all know, there are many shitheads out there, waiting to screw good players over.

 

[Zeoaesir]

This is how I always deal with NMs, however, even by following these rules, I got yelled once. After watching 3 people wiped to a NM that I easily dualed, friend of mine claimed it and we killed it. Then.... classic cursing.

Happened in Beadeaux (S), on the Imp nm

To Hon, mannnnnnnn, get your assssss somewhere else lol, will you ever get tired of sky? hahaha

Sorry to see that happen to you tho, but as we all know, there are many shitheads out there, waiting to screw good players over.

Get your arse back in the game Daveee!

 

[Ewok]

Is it possible to melee it once well before the pet dies, then disengage, and keep it claimed while swapping pets? Sorry, noob question, I was just curious.

 

[Reauland]

Unfortunately, no.

Just about the only way to even have a prayer of not losing claim is to:

• Be meleeing during a pet swap (just asking to die)
• Charm a new pet and have it already fighting the NM before the server has a chance to register the target swap (which is what I always try to do)