Civil Liberties <Where?>

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Sharpe

Genkai Conqueror
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Sharpe
/shrug

I'm personally of the opinion that everything we do that can be tracked, should be tracked, and held in a database only unlockable by a court order. It's technically no different from being placed under surveillance, and if you set the requirements for database access at a reasonable level possibly even more difficult to manage, though potentially far more rewarding for prosecutors, seeing as how the data would cover a much longer time period.

In regards to this particular issue, of warrantless searches, I'm vehemently opposed. Tracking is all well and good, so long as a warrant is involved on either the front or back end. If they're just collecting data out of suspicion, you'd better hope your suspicions are enough to convince a judge.

And yes, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide, blah blah blah.

Political tests have placed me in the "Libertarian Fascist" category though, so I could be the wrong person to discuss civil liberties with. I generally think the government should stay out of people's lives to the greatest possible extent... and when people break the law in some serious fashion, we should fire them out of a cannon into the sun. Three strikes and you're dead, habitual offenders are a drain on society. I don't care who you marry, or what you marry, unless you attempt to harm your spouse. I don't believe in lengthy appeals processes. If you couldn't prove your innocence once, I doubt you'll be able to do it again. One appeal onry, then we off you.

I also don't believe in prison, as prison is primarily a place to send criminals so that they might learn to become better criminals. Brief but painful public punishments are a fair to middin' deterrent, based on human history. Reeducation and reform also have their places. Cross the threshold into murder, attempted murder, or some particularly grievous assault, and we're talking cannon into the sun time though.
 
I do not agree with invasion of people's privacy. All they are going to end up with is a lot of information on how much people look at legal porn and fetish sites.

I do agree with monitoring people who have been judged guilty of an offence. For example, a man who has been charged with possession of child pornography. Yes, he should be monitored.
 
Mirewen said:
I do not agree with invasion of people's privacy. All they are going to end up with is a lot of information on how much people look at legal porn and fetish sites.

I do agree with monitoring people who have been judged guilty of an offense. For example, a man who has been charged with possession of child pornography. Yes, he should be monitored.
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Agreed. Monitor those who've already proven themselves a menace to society. Sorry one fair shot at your liberties otherwise you need to be babysat.

I don't think civilians without a rap sheet should have their personal conversations, pictures, emails, or information filtered through.

There are shady types, dishonest and downright evil people all around us, including in the police for and the justice system as a whole. I would not be comfortable knowing there's a possibility that some crooked investigator/detective about to begin his/her criminal lifestyle is going through my harddrive absorbing my life. That's a stretch I know, but a risk none-the-less, and for what, I've not done anything to gain any law enforcement attention.
 
Raesvelg said:
/shrug

I'm personally of the opinion that everything we do that can be tracked, should be tracked, and held in a database only unlockable by a court order. It's technically no different from being placed under surveillance, and if you set the requirements for database access at a reasonable level possibly even more difficult to manage, though potentially far more rewarding for prosecutors, seeing as how the data would cover a much longer time period.
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It wont require a court order as far as I know and even if it did the police can get them without any fuss at all over here. Also a database of this sort being run by a private company, great idea. I agree with Mirewen if you've been convicted of a crime such as paedophilia or the like then yeah, monitor them, having the power to monitor any member of the public they wish at the drop of a hat isn't right at all.

Also with our new Anti Terror laws the Police can pretty much stop and search anyone they see fit and take anyone they see fit into custody as well. Photographers are feeling these new laws a lot lately. ID cards would have all your biometric data on amongst other things. It comes to something when our government seems to be using 1984 as a manual rather than a warning. Also don't forget the act of fisting in pornography is classed as violent pornography and possession can land you with a nice little prison sentence.
 
Also don't forget, our Police force arrested and searched an opposition MP's parliamentary office after reports of a "leak" of Home Office information. Something they did with the support of the government (the government deny it but the Speaker of the House, a Labour member, gave them permission to do so). There leaks weren't top secret and were things Labour were trying to hide from the public anyway.
 
Sharpe said:
It's not my cup of tea but I don't think it should be classed as "extreme" "violent" and thus illegal pornography.
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ESPECIALLY in Britain, you guys are freaks over there!! I kid.

Seriously though, you are right in that, as pornography now-a-days goes, I'm fairly certain that's a subtle act. If you can rent/buy AS WELL AS download porn that includes fisting, there should be a lot of business owners being put in the clink for soliciting illegal "extreme" and "violent" porn. I know here you can find tons of it.

On a personal note, I'm pretty sure my father has probably watched a vid or two online with THAT behavior in it, he doesn't deserve to be locked up or even interrogated =(
 
Mirewen said:
Don't kid. They are. My family is from Britain. (Wales/Ireland)

They don't bat an eye at full frontal nudity in a newspaper lol.
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I had to keep things civil. I know how liberal they are >.>
 
I agree with most people here that say only criminals are deserving of being watched. But I'm far away from most people here in most of my opinions. First, if a criminal has served his time, he's done. No more watching him. He did his part and now it's time for him to be free and have another chance.

If you aren't hurting anyone else, it's no ones business what you do. That includes child pornography (as mentioned earlier). Watching it isn't bad. Making it is bad. If some sicko in Texas is wanking to some 10 year on in China, it's none of your business.

Doug Stanhope gives a good explanation of that dumb shit:


"Just don't fuck the kid."


Also, in reply to Raesvelg about the "three strikes" thing. What about "major" non violent crimes that hurt no one else?

-Tax evasion
-Refusing a draft
-Being in possession of a fair amount of drugs

I think these are all things that EVERYONE should do in order to stand up for their rights. You can't just throw everyone in jail. There shouldn't be a draft. There shouldn't be an income tax and drugs shouldn't be illegal. They should be regulated. Should people like that be fired into the sun just because they disagree with what a few idiots in D.C. say they have to do?
 
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Bustaballs said:
First, if a criminal has served his time, he's done. No more watching him. He did his part and now it's time for him to be free and have another chance.
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Sure.. if his crimes initially did not harm anyone else. If his first, or numerous offenses leading to jail time were serious enough. If he raped, or murdered, attempted murder on someone or solicited/watched or had hands on involvement with child pornography, there is something MENTALLY wrong with that individual and he/she will ALWAYS be a risk. I do NOT believe that jail time or even psychological therapy necessarily assists in rehabilitating someone with a serious mental complex.

"If you aren't hurting anyone else, it's no ones business what you do. " to a point I agree, but when you're a potential serious risk to others.. then yea.. you should be watched.

Bustaballs said:
That includes child pornography (as mentioned earlier). Watching it isn't bad. Making it is bad. If some sicko in Texas is wanking to some 10 year on in China, it's none of your business.
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Wow. You'd be alright knowing Bill next door who you've raised your kids around busts a nutt watching boys or girls the same age as your children get sexually abused? Think about that for a second ok.

...

done? Bill next door is a risk, there's a good chance there's something lingering in that mans brain no one wants to experience. It may never happen but you know what, we don't want to take that risk. :nono:

The only unfortunate thing about that possible senerio is.. I don't think tapping into every civilians personal home computer is the answer, and I'm not going to pretend I have an answer, or even a possible solution other than to watch those that have a HISTORY.
 
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Wait what? Watching child porn isn't bad?... So using drugs isn't bad, as long as you aren't selling them? Is that why people don't go to jail for possession? No wait, they do.

I can't even fathom why anyone would think watching child porn is acceptable.
 
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