Clearing my Name... Part 2

[Phraust]

Ok, since Argus' Spawn area was increased as was most, if not all the 'Close Quarter Voke War' Notorious Monster Spawns, I will tell you all how I did it.

I thought to myself one day:

Peacock charm is worth 6,000,000g(At the time it was).
The average player farms between 10,000g-20,000g.
this means to me: In order to write Argus off as a Waste of time, I will have to camp him for 300-600 hours. For scale, that is 12.5-25 days non-stop.
All I had to do was discover the relative spawn time and voke for a couple hours each day, and pray I got the claim, and subsequently, the drop.

So I sat down, watched Movies, &/or Law & Order, and voked. In the meantime, I would let my character sit Idle in the spawn area and read the logs to see if he spawned while I was at work/Sleeping.

Here is the key: Networking basics.

For all of you that think that Ping, and being closer to the server matters, I will enlighten you.

Lets say you are in a stationary position, waiting for Argus to spawn for about 10 seconds. He spawns claimed, and you cry foul. Yes, indeed it did spawn in Japan and was indeed visable to Japanese players a whole 2 seconds earlier than us. But Lets say you brought out your trusty Turbo controller, and voked for those 10 seconds, blindly voking anything that spawned for the entire time. On second #7, Argus Spawns, and in theory, you will see him on second #9, and technically still be voking up to second #10, because I said you were voking for 10 seconds.

So it looks like this:

T1)Second #1: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag.

T2)Second #2: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag.

T3)Second #3: 18-21 POrovokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T1) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T4)Second #4: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T2) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T5)Second #5: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T3) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T6)Second #6: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T4) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T7)Second #7: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. Argus Spawns on SE, Quetzalcoatl Game Server! All the Provokes from (T5) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server, and being challenged against all the other people voking.

T8)Second #8: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T6) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T9)Second #9: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T7) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.Argus Appears on your screen at home.

T10)Second #10: 18-21 Provokes in the Pipe headed to Japan, 2 second delay due to lag. All the Provokes from (T8) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T11)Second #11: All the Provokes from (T9) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

T12)Second #12: All the Provokes from (T10) Are reaching Japan and being Processed by the SE, Quetzalcoatl game server.

"First is the worst, second is the best, third is a nerd yadda, yadda, yadda..."

Sometimes, you don't want to be first to voke everything.
When I camped, I spammed Via Macro. And that means, that even if there is a mob in the room I can still voke the entire area between me and the mob. ANd when I got an Ultra fast voker Across from me, I am actually at a slight advantage. Person A claims a bat and draws it accross to thier Area and fights it, I keep voking, everyone else that is voking from the menu, is rendered basically incapacitated. Argus Spawns and I voke.

That is how you do it.

and with 12.5 - 25 Days straight worth of camping, I can still spare to lose a couple vokes to them.

In the beginning I was the first voke, then Rinas Arrived, and I ended up gettign owned. I later Befriended them and we discussed stratigies. We worked together, covered the entire area, and never joined a party, because we could ensure that they Almost Always got the first Voke, and I always go tthe second Voke.

Now On to the Preadators:

There apparently, which was recently brought to my attention, a pair of Players that have told a few people that they sold me a 'packet sniffer'. And were using me as a success story of thier accomplishment. One even went so far as to say I gave them a cut of all my Argus Captures, and bought the rights to the Sniffer outright.

This is absolute and Utter bullshit.

The people in Question are Named Rinato, and Velis. Two people I have never met in game or otherwise. If they used my name to peddle some kind of progrram beware. I never have, never needed to, and never will cheat.

I am sick and fucking tired of being the target of this kind of bullshit because I found I was good at something. I made my Money the hard way. You go out and camp a Rabbit for five months straight, you go and camp a Blob for three months straight, tracking it, timing it, Praying you get the cap, and praying you get the drop. You go out and deal with the frustration of it's cospawn spawning 5 days in a row, only to have Argus actually spawn and get nabbed by somone that just showed up.

I worked too fucking hard for this shit. And I want my God Damned Respect!

 

[Vlishgnath]

Heh.. a packet sniffer, eh? Yeah, those are pretty useful.. when I'm tracing TCP/IP data for sync requests and trouble shooting a network disconnect..

Anyone that's giving you shit about this, I think you should just ask them if they have any idea what a packet monitor (line sniffer) actually is.

But congrats on Argus tho! I am jealous!

 

[Phraust]

At the risk of trying to sound 'overly ignorant as to clear my name' What does a packet sniffer actually do? And how exactly would it help in the case of a NM spawn? I mean don't the spawns happen Server side anyways? What would sniffing a 2 second old packet add in the way of an advantage?

 

[Vlishgnath]

And how exactly would it help in the case of a NM spawn?

That's it exactly. It, well, can't.

A packet monitor is a piece of code you run against an ethernet communications port (an IP or an IP port) on a host system (in this case, your computer). It monitors and collects TCP/IP packets (the protocol the internet uses to talk) that are traveling to/from the host system for analysis to troubleshoot a possible problem with the network. I mean, that's it. It's a monitor; nothing invasive.

There is only one thing I can think of off hand that you could use to assist you in claim times, and that's to launch a DoS (denial of service, basically just a ping flood against an individual's IP address) attack against your competition. But it would be relatively impossible to find another persons IP address by means of a FFXI server.

If I see these guys online tonight, I think I'm gonna inquire.

 

[alanon]

At the risk of trying to sound 'overly ignorant as to clear my name' What does a packet sniffer actually do? And how exactly would it help in the case of a NM spawn? I mean don't the spawns happen Server side anyways? What would sniffing a 2 second old packet add in the way of an advantage?

In a nut shell, it allows you to see the network traffic, in and out, protocols, packet sizes etc. Basically used to either troubleshoot or hack networks.


As to how it would help with an NM spawn, I have no clue, other than you would be able to see it just spawned...

 

[Direwolf]

How the hell would a packet sniffer help you with NM spawns? Maybe if you where trying to hacks someones acount it would be useful... But an NM spawn?

 

[Flymop]

All it all boils down to in the end is 2 guys annoyed with Phrast for beating them to Argus, and these 2 guys are just trying to make up excuses for there slowness to it, thats all.

And if this is the way they act, out right accusing him of things which actually wudnt make a slight bit of difference to whether he got the NM or not, then im glad Phrast got Argus and tbh i dont see the point in these 2 people playing if this is the way they act as it ruins it for everyone

 

[Direwolf]

The weak always envy and despise the strong...

Failing to get argus pop is not a sign of weakness, bitching and moaning on how someone must have cheated to beat you is.

 

[Courtney]

If this is the case, how did Rinas almost always own you? I would have though this kind of mechanic would have turned the mob into a lottery, particularly if he told you his tactics...

 

[Pascal]

http://www.ethereal.com

 

[Phraust]

If this is the case, how did Rinas almost always own you? I would have though this kind of mechanic would have turned the mob into a lottery, particularly if he told you his tactics...

He would Own me to the first voke almost every time because I was using a slower method of provoking. I was provoking through macros, he was fireing from the hip with his Menu voking, which in my opinion is faster, even though they told me that it was about even most of the time.

THe point of the post wasn't that I was the fastest, just the one that saw the flaw in people's logic. Nobody thought they would succeed at getting Argus because they didn't know basic Physics.

Picture it like this:

If I was on top of a building dropping marbles off the roof. and there was a guy 2 floors below me dropping marbles too, and we are both trying to hit people coming out of the building, he would have the advantage of being closer. But if I consistantly dropped marbles, as did the other guy, we are basically on a level playing field as far as assaulting some poor fool goes. But like dropping Marbles there are still factors in play that would delay me more than the next guy, like Lost packes, and more points of error between me and my target. Conside those factors 'wind'. And between me and my vicitm, there is a lot more wind than between my compeatator and my victim.

 

[TiyaKelth]

If I was on top of a building dropping marbles off the roof. and there was a guy 2 floors below me dropping marbles too, and we are both trying to hit people coming out of the building,

Sounds like fun

 

[Pascal]

Phraust, I do have one thing to say. If you are seeing a 2 second delay for a packet update you have a serious problem with your Internet connection.

Pinging 61.195.50.67 with 1024 bytes of data:

Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=193ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=188ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=189ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=190ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 61.195.50.67:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 188ms, Maximum = 193ms, Average = 190ms

As you can see my average round trip packet time to Quetzalcoatl is 190ms (1000ms = 1 second).

 

[Svina]

Jibba jabba

There you have it folks. No more whining about latency to japan.

 

[Bigboy]

Phraust, I do have one thing to say. If you are seeing a 2 second delay for a packet update you have a serious problem with your Internet connection.

This one is all me. He probably got that number from me as I was using it as an example time (Much as he was I'm sure) when speculating on the matter last night.

Good to see some actually numbers, but does the type of connection you have affect these numbers in any serious way, or are things going to be pretty much the same for everyone?

I personally felt little difference when I made th just from a dial up connection via AOL to comcast broadband. I could see that there would be little difference with all the effort that SE put into making the game function with very limited connnections.

Again, always good to get some hard data, thank you! ^^

 

[Mithracat]

Phraust, I do have one thing to say. If you are seeing a 2 second delay for a packet update you have a serious problem with your Internet connection.

Pinging 61.195.50.67 with 1024 bytes of data:

Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=193ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=188ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=189ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=190ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 61.195.50.67:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 188ms, Maximum = 193ms, Average = 190ms

As you can see my average round trip packet time to Quetzalcoatl is 190ms (1000ms = 1 second).

Damns you is compooters smart!

 

[Pascal]

Always remember PC = Personal Confuser

 

[decidence]

Open up Command Prompt and type "ping qcdn.org" or whatever IP you want to ping... you can write it out to a file by typing "ping qcdn.org >ping.txt" or ping for a set amount of times etc with different commands.

Actually not that difficult =)

Here's mine..

Pinging qcdn.org [64.62.239.31] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.62.239.31: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=52
Reply from 64.62.239.31: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=52
Reply from 64.62.239.31: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=52
Reply from 64.62.239.31: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 64.62.239.31:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 38ms, Maximum = 38ms, Average = 38ms

 

[Pascal]

Basically what ping is doing is giving you a very dirty measurement of the Network Latency by measuring the amount of time it takes a small packet of information to reach a host, and come back. Latency or delay is caused by a large number of factors (Propagation Delay, Transmission Delay, Router Delay, and Packet Delay). What latency shows us is the efficiency of the Network transferring data between you and a certain host. The lower the number the more efficient the connection is.

Unfortunately some pieces of information we are lacking is the size of the data packet needed to spawn a monster in the game. Also is the game doing any client side scheduling. Where it sends the spawn information ahead of time and the client knows to spawn it, at a certain time in the game, thus popping up on everyone’s screen at the same time.

People who have faster connections and who are closer to the server (fewer hops) will typically have better network efficiency as well as the ability to transfer more data in a given second. So yes, it is possible for people to see a spawn faster than someone else, but in general terms we are talking milliseconds.

I am sure you all have seen this before, but it is a good simple way to test your connection in the game. Just send a tell to your self and count how long it takes to receive it, then divide that by 2. On my connection it is typically around half a second to a second round trip.

Definitions

Bandwidth: The maximum amount of raw data that can be transmitted per second. It's a fixed property, calculated rather than measured. In a network the bandwidth is the highest speed of the slowest component.

Throughput: The actual data that is transmitted per second. Only the payload data is counted, not any overhead such as start/stop bits, TCP/IP, or HTTP overhead. Throughput depends on things like bandwidth, latency, payload size, packet size, network load, number of hops, and others.

Latency: The minimum time a network needs to send the smallest possible amount of data. Latency depends on things like line speed, receive and retransmit delay in routers and modems. A low latency indicates high network efficiency

Propagation Delay: this varies with the total end-to-end length of the network connection, all signal propagation being limited by the speed of light. An additional latency of 80ms is not unusual for a transatlantic connection and another 70ms if the US continent has to be crossed.

Transmission delay: the time taken to transmit a packet on each hop of a connection: this depends on the bandwidth of the connection in bits-per-second. The higher the bits-per-second, the lower the transmission delay.

Router delays: packets are re-assembled when received by routers, and then buffered in memory until they can be transmitted on the hop to the next router. If that next hop is congested, the packet can be delayed inside the router for long periods. Internet congestion is unpredictable and unavoidable.

 

[Phraust]

Phraust, I do have one thing to say. If you are seeing a 2 second delay for a packet update you have a serious problem with your Internet connection.

Pinging 61.195.50.67 with 1024 bytes of data:

Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=193ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=188ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=189ms TTL=241
Reply from 61.195.50.67: bytes=1024 time=190ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 61.195.50.67:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 188ms, Maximum = 193ms, Average = 190ms

As you can see my average round trip packet time to Quetzalcoatl is 190ms (1000ms = 1 second).

It's called setting up an example...

Would you not agree that the example I gave would be a lot more murkey if I had used Multiple hundres of Milliseconds?

I was not complaining about the ping at all, I was simply stating under most circumstances, that a 'Close Quarter Voke War' was actually the most even playing field as apposed to the normal pop and seek hunts such as Valkrum Emperor.

I was simply stating that I am in no way special or godly, nor did I need any cheats or special programs or devices, because I just decided to play on everyones preconcieved notion that they had no chance, because they though that being closer to the server mattered too much for a voke war, when in fact it was your best chance to get the pop in the end.