Columbine Super Massacre RPG

[Chasym]

People are so foolish. The whole idea that people boil such real life things down to a game is straight up disrespectful. You can laugh and have fun about it because you are ignorant of what it really is. Go ahead laugh it up, deny the fact that you have humanity in you that ties you to other people, the strange thing called empathy. When people start to lose sight of that which ties us together then you start to see real violence.

Disgusting.

Hey everyone lets go play Sudan: Darfur Attack, or Rwanda: Hutu vs Tutsi. Im sure it seems harmless to you and just a silly game. I bet you will feel great after playing it then having someone start killing people in your school, watching your teachers have to leave school because they can not handle it mentally and get panic attacks or watch your sister get scared by any loud noise or every time you watch a violent movie with them and they squirm you wonder if its because they saw someone die in front of them.

If you want to play it or do play it you will justify it in anyway just so you don't have to face facts so go ahead.

im not laughing or having fun, but ill play it because i wanna see what its all about. and it looks like you are one who falls into the catergory of bitching about something you know nothing about, If you played it you would see it wasnt about a happy go lucky killing spree game. i know most of the facts of columbine, But because i played a game that isnt much different than a movie about it like that of the ACTUAL movie or that of 9.11 doesnt say i dont have to face facts, because if you researched you will see the entire game was created from all research of what really happened and is all fact.
Aside from them going to hell which if you played you can see why that part was in the game. it wasnt for fun or took away from the realism of what happened.

i like how these people worded it
"I said this game is one of the most important in gaming history, which I meant for two reasons. First, [the creator] has used a video game (successfully, I might add) to explore an important socio-cultural event. This is, hopefully, the first step towards the acceptance of video games as a legitimate medium for the expression of serious thought. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it is one of the only psychological explorations of the Columbine killers ever completed, and its sincerity is evident in the care displayed in the design of the game. It reminds us that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the murderers of Columbine, were victims of Columbine, as well." - Ryan Moore, The Pale Writer

"For me, this was one of the hardest games I've ever played. After 20 years of gaming, it's almost natural at this point to try and immerse myself in what I play, but doing so in this case was impossible. If anything, the constant cycle of playing the game versus thinking about playing the game - the association, then dissociation - helped to sharpen the line between game and reality, not blur it. The striking grimness of the contained events, combined with the memory of their transgression, created a very real pathos towards the victims, their killers, and having to deal with consequences for those of us left in the wake. It was certainly not the self-indulgent killfest that many have deemed it." - Dustin, SCMRPG player

browse the forums, its a split line but like i said all the people in an uproar have no idea what the game contains, which reminds me of many movie protestors (lol dogma protestors who said the movie attacked religious beliefs XD) mostly its christians saying anyone who touches the game and the creators are going to hell.
I can say that religious beliefs or not, i dont see anyone going to hell over documenting a part of history in a new way not much different than a movie or a book.
People protest things alot, I actually support those who protest or speak out against someone who has actually researched it and in that case, to each their own for me.
But those who just protest something without research or knowing, Have no place to speak.
It is protested like many movies and books.
There will be those who always protest the shocking, which we always find that in the end,
wasnt worth much of the fuss that was caused over it.

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

To the WWII argument. Both sides felt that the other was the enemy. One side was defending freedom, the other was trying to take over the world.

Yes, innocents were killed, but that wasnt the premise of most WWII games. Most games take the scenario of WWII and turns it into a FPS strategy/team based game.

Columbine showed two kids who were fucking nuts shooting innocent people.
Who the hell knows what was going on in the heads of those fucktards. All I know is they were fucking nuts and any attempt to make light of the situation is a bunch of bullshit.

Now, I will not yet pass judgment on the game because I havent played it and as Chasym has said, to do so would be ignorant and wrong.

 

[Mattaru]

im not laughing or having fun, but ill play it because i wanna see what its all about. and it looks like you are one who falls into the catergory of bitching about something you know nothing about, If you played it you would see it wasnt about a happy go lucky killing spree game. i know most of the facts of columbine, But because i played a game that isnt much different than a movie about it like that of the ACTUAL movie or that of 9.11 doesnt say i dont have to face facts, because if you researched you will see the entire game was created from all research of what really happened and is all fact.
Aside from them going to hell which if you played you can see why that part was in the game. it wasnt for fun or took away from the realism of what happened.

i like how these people worded it
"I said this game is one of the most important in gaming history, which I meant for two reasons. First, [the creator] has used a video game (successfully, I might add) to explore an important socio-cultural event. This is, hopefully, the first step towards the acceptance of video games as a legitimate medium for the expression of serious thought. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it is one of the only psychological explorations of the Columbine killers ever completed, and its sincerity is evident in the care displayed in the design of the game. It reminds us that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the murderers of Columbine, were victims of Columbine, as well." - Ryan Moore, The Pale Writer

"For me, this was one of the hardest games I've ever played. After 20 years of gaming, it's almost natural at this point to try and immerse myself in what I play, but doing so in this case was impossible. If anything, the constant cycle of playing the game versus thinking about playing the game - the association, then dissociation - helped to sharpen the line between game and reality, not blur it. The striking grimness of the contained events, combined with the memory of their transgression, created a very real pathos towards the victims, their killers, and having to deal with consequences for those of us left in the wake. It was certainly not the self-indulgent killfest that many have deemed it." - Dustin, SCMRPG player

browse the forums, its a split line but like i said all the people in an uproar have no idea what the game contains, which reminds me of many movie protestors (lol dogma protestors who said the movie attacked religious beliefs XD) mostly its christians saying anyone who touches the game and the creators are going to hell.
I can say that religious beliefs or not, i dont see anyone going to hell over documenting a part of history in a new way not much different than a movie or a book.
People protest things alot, I actually support those who protest or speak out against someone who has actually researched it and in that case, to each their own for me.
But those who just protest something without research or knowing, Have no place to speak.
It is protested like many movies and books.
There will be those who always protest the shocking, which we always find that in the end,
wasnt worth much of the fuss that was caused over it.

I read what people said about the game and I understand that is some attempt to create a strange "pathos" if you will. Seriously, who the hell are you to tell me I don't know, I lived this shit from when it happened until now when people ask where I went to high school. I am not a dumbass, I read what people said.

My sole point which I think is a legitimate one is the use of a video game as a medium reduces it to a game, something you play. In my experience pathos is very often not the result of gaming although some gamers (dustin) and one author (moore) believe it so. Let me just say after debating for a long time you can find a piece of evidence saying what you want it to say almost all the time. And usually it can be from an expert. so your authors pieces don't give an argument any extra warrant on face. Anyways, I doubt any of those authors are really accredited to give an opinion on socio-cultural events or psychological workings of the game or anything and are at best their interpretations that they can try to piece from the random undergrad psych/sociology course they took and they really dug their first chance to try and be profound. I don't take this game seriously at all solely from the fact that at the end you go fight demons in hell as I am told. That is such a base recourse for action and I fail to see how it can give any sense of pathos.

I don't believe in hell so whatever that part of your argument about what religious critics think doesn't matter to me at all.

Nothing creates the type of sympathy for others as reality does and art is a representation of it, video games arguably being one of them, but I have not yet played any game that has had an impact on me like a well-directed film or well-written book because those type of quality people are just not making video games.

To me my argument still stands and the small inkling of an argument that I can make FOR you from those brief paragraphs you qoute really don't refute the simple fact that however well-intentioned the game may be it still belittles those who are actually affected by constricting their reality of the event into the confines of a debatable game really shortchanging the true broad impact of the event. If you can't see an event as a real thing affecting people just because it is a represntational object you have not experienced is to really demean your own identity as a human being (this is more at Tyraths GTA parallels).

As i said before people will always justify what they do even if it is petty and poorly rationalized as you have done so I can't expect much more.

I won't play the game because quite frankly it isn't something I could justify to my sister if she were to know I was.

Edit: And seriously calling Eric and Dylan victims is fucking absurd, yeah you get shit in high school because you are "wierd", but going around and reacting the way they did is absolutely no excuse or justification in calling them victims. Sure you can say they were victims of bullying, but sure as hell not victims of the Columbine shooting.

 

[Kagemusha]

but posting an actual hanging is ok?

Are you retarded? Explain to me how you can compare Saddam's execution to killing people in GTA, please enlighten me.

 

[Chasym]

@ matt
He didnt say they were victims of the shooting, he said they were victims of columbine. He is correct in that statement.

No one called you a dumb ass, but basing your beliefs and protests on it by what other people said, isnt saying much. I browsed the board to see what people thought of it, But im surley not basing any thoughts i have on it soley on what someone else said. Thats absurd.
I did my own research into it and actually played the game for about 10 min, i in the section of my screen that could show it which was enough to play through that far, and i didnt find it as offensive or morally wrong as those who speak out but dont care to look at what they speak out against.

When columbine happened, I felt the sadness of it in my heart as much as anyone else, I dont support the fucktards who did it and cant express how much i cant stand to hear people like that are out there doing things to people who dont deserve it. I of course cannot feel the sadness and emotional stress of the families and people it directly effected, but i can sympathize with them.
In a way the whole thing happened caused some things to effect me personally when my english teacher took a poll in every hour of her classes of whom she thought would shoot up our school had one taken place in our school and me and my friend were rated number 1 and 2 in that poll out of everyone. Why? Because we were quiet, kept to ourselves and a small group of friends, and wore rock clothing. Needless to say that teacher didnt have a job much longer.
Im not for or against this game at all, I havent taken the extra 10 minutes needed to complete the game but after playing for the first 10 i can say that my personal look at it shows clearly it isnt what the people who dont care to look at it but speak the loudest say it is.
Basing what you think about it from what other people say, Isnt a valuable argument.
You experienced it, and im sorry for that. Though im sure you dont need anyones sympathy or want it. To you its a personal event in your life,
To those of us on the outside, its a major event in our history.
This game is much like an interactive look at what happened. Told from the shocking side of one of the killers, I really wouldnt wanna see it from one of the sides of the victims because the story would be very remote and small from that side, this side was the only approach that could capture the entire scenario.

 

[meeze]

Are you retarded? Explain to me how you can compare Saddam's execution to killing people in GTA, please enlighten me.

are you retarded? I'm talking about you trolling for saddams death video, but thinking it's somehow wrong to make a video game about rl events.

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

Chasym, I bow before your debating skills.

And no, The hanging and GTA have almost NOTHING in common. One is the hanging of a cold blooded killer, the other is playing the pixels of a cold blooded killer....killing.

One is real life, the other is all fantasy/fiction

Edit (cause meeze is faster than me): If the game is not tastefully done, then it is wrong. The hanging of Saddam was not wrong, unless you want to argue on a religious level or are an anti-death penatly person. Or even if your against hanging.

You can't compare the two.

 

[meeze]

I'm not talking about the events. I'm talking about someone trolling for a death video of an execution and one who plays this game.

BTW, there are plenty of people around the world who are mourning saddams death, and all we do is make ymntds about it.

Just remember who brought upcolumbine and why it was put up front in the media, i doubt clinton cared as much about them compared to his ass which was being saved.

 

[Tyrion]

...there are plenty of people around the world who are mourning saddams death, and all we do is make ymntds about it.

Yes, they're called "idiots," and intelligent people ignore them if possible. Seriously, mourning the death of somebody who would have just as soon killed you as looked at you is retarded.

 

[Uzor]

people actually pay for that game?

It was made in RPG Maker 2000 <.<; Anyone can do a game like that for free... Maybe I should start making games about Saddam. Call it "Saddam Hussein's Life In Hell RPG" and sell it for money.

The goal is to kill the devil and get in to heaven.

 

[Chasym]

people actually pay for that game?

It was made in RPG Maker 2000 <.<; Anyone can do a game like that for free... Maybe I should start making games about Saddam. Call it "Saddam Hussein's Life In Hell RPG" and sell it for money.

The goal is to kill the devil and get in to heaven.

ummm...no one pays for the game. its free....

 

[Uzor]

ummm...no one pays for the game. its free....

Oh, well... that guy in the vid must be retarded then, lol. He said "It's just a pathetic attempt at making money" xD

 

[Chasym]

Oh, well... that guy in the vid must be retarded then, lol. He said "It's just a pathetic attempt at making money" xD

i know lol, hes one of those who dont know what its really about or care to look, they just hear the title and go fox media on it! lmao.

The game was made in rpg maker, No money or pofit was ever made.
it was not made for publicity or 15 minutes of fame because the creator released the game under an alias, excluded pretty much any creation credits from the end of the game and never plans on revealing who he really is.

Browse their boards and you can see that he is a well educated guy, did alot of research and does not down those who are against this idea at all, hes pretty open to talk about the game and the real happenings at the school on his board.
While im on the fence with this one, Its better knowing the guy didnt go and make a freakish game (which is what people tend to call it if they dont know what it really is) to be twisted and have fun, he didnt do it for publicity or recognition, and certainly didnt do it for cash.

but when the movie comes out and makes some bank, i dont feel it will get as much backlash as the game...how odd that is.

 

[Uzor]

but when the movie comes out and makes some bank, i dont feel it will get as much backlash as the game...how odd that is.

We all know games are the creation of the devil. Games make people want to kill people. So game = bad, movie = good, right?

 

[Chasym]

We all know games are the creation of the devil. Games make people want to kill people. So game = bad, movie = good, right?

seems to be the general consensus.
I remember when rock was made by the devil, but now its rap!

 

[Mishaela]

Yeah the fact that someone even put forth the effort, or even got the idea to make such a game, makes me incredibly sick.

Funny that there's nothing more than mere controversy over this game...if someone made a "9/11 Flight Simulator" the creators would probably be jailed.

 

[Chasym]

Yeah the fact that someone even put forth the effort, or even got the idea to make such a game, makes me incredibly sick.

Funny that there's nothing more than mere controversy over this game...if someone made a "9/11 Flight Simulator" the creators would probably be jailed.

there is a 9.11 game being made in the same vein as this.

 

[Mattaru]

@ matt
He didnt say they were victims of the shooting, he said they were victims of columbine. He is correct in that statement.

No one called you a dumb ass, but basing your beliefs and protests on it by what other people said, isnt saying much. I browsed the board to see what people thought of it, But im surley not basing any thoughts i have on it soley on what someone else said. Thats absurd.
I did my own research into it and actually played the game for about 10 min, i in the section of my screen that could show it which was enough to play through that far, and i didnt find it as offensive or morally wrong as those who speak out but dont care to look at what they speak out against.

When columbine happened, I felt the sadness of it in my heart as much as anyone else, I dont support the fucktards who did it and cant express how much i cant stand to hear people like that are out there doing things to people who dont deserve it. I of course cannot feel the sadness and emotional stress of the families and people it directly effected, but i can sympathize with them.
In a way the whole thing happened caused some things to effect me personally when my english teacher took a poll in every hour of her classes of whom she thought would shoot up our school had one taken place in our school and me and my friend were rated number 1 and 2 in that poll out of everyone. Why? Because we were quiet, kept to ourselves and a small group of friends, and wore rock clothing. Needless to say that teacher didnt have a job much longer.
Im not for or against this game at all, I havent taken the extra 10 minutes needed to complete the game but after playing for the first 10 i can say that my personal look at it shows clearly it isnt what the people who dont care to look at it but speak the loudest say it is.
Basing what you think about it from what other people say, Isnt a valuable argument.
You experienced it, and im sorry for that. Though im sure you dont need anyones sympathy or want it. To you its a personal event in your life,
To those of us on the outside, its a major event in our history.
This game is much like an interactive look at what happened. Told from the shocking side of one of the killers, I really wouldnt wanna see it from one of the sides of the victims because the story would be very remote and small from that side, this side was the only approach that could capture the entire scenario.

Your argument about me not playing the game and therefore not being able to pass judgement is really a huge cop out and its the only thing that you are holding up against me. I stated my reasons for not playing it in that if I were to do it I know it would disturb people in my own household, namely my sister. I am generally one to be curious and could give a fuck what others think but it is obviously very personal.

Everyone interprets things differently and experiences vary.

Sure someone may get a sense of catharsis by playing this game and that person may be you. It would not be me because quite frankly I don't need to "understand" columbine any better than I do now, because I know it very well and as a socially critical thinker I can construct what it is quite easily. It just won't positively effect me because I doubt there is anything new I can take from it and its motives alone are enough for me to construct the experience of the game. It is as simple as a cause and reaction, this is their motive and this is the desired reaction, I fail to see myself gaining that reaction from it.


On the whole you still don't bother discussing my point at all and hide behind a defense about me not playing it. Just because I do not experience something first hand does not mean I am not able to discern its purpose or meaning...that is something you do every single day as a human being.

An example: I may never go to the Sudan in africa but I can make a judgement on the killings there (to call it a genocide is questionable due to the semantics of the issue, it is none the less disgusting).

Whether or not people's differing experiences from the game are "cathartic" I am saying discursively the idea that it is a game or simulation is a disrespectful interpretaion because of how that medium chooses to relay reality. And quite frankly, if you understand my empathy argument I brought up early on you'll see why I think it is disrespectful, you may think it is a good idea because you are on the "outside" and therefore removed, but if you are to place yourself on the inside you will see it isn't as clearcut (not saying you would automatically then think it is bad, but you would probably understand why some people find it personally repugnant). The outsider and insider mindset is a dangerous one when it comes to traumatic events because it allows for sayings such as "this doesn't effect me, why should it matter", "this isn't my problem, why should I worry about it".

--The glaring problem with your argument based on your defense is that it is oh so easily turned. Sense obviously I must experience things first hand to actually understand therefore you are placed with the burden of doing so yourself for those who you condemn for judging but not playing, yet having some personal relation to Columbine (being in the communitty, knowing someone who died etc.) to understand why one would be against the game. Yet, you rely on an insider and outsider approach to understanding which limits your comprehension of both sides of the argument. Nonetheless, it is a flawed argument in the first place, but it shows how you should think it through more. You create a standard of comprehension that even you can't meet to sufficiently sway one side or another.

I concede that some people may see the game as creating some sort of pathos and interpretations vary, I understand both sides of the argument, but nonetheless a video game interpretation defines an event in reality in to one that is historically virtual and fantasy and therefore depreciates it.

 

[Chasym]

Your argument about me not playing the game and therefore not being able to pass judgement is really a huge cop out and its the only thing that you are holding up against me. I stated my reasons for not playing it in that if I were to do it I know it would disturb people in my own household, namely my sister. I am generally one to be curious and could give a fuck what others think but it is obviously very personal.

Everyone interprets things differently and experiences vary.

Sure someone may get a sense of catharsis by playing this game and that person may be you. It would not be me because quite frankly I don't need to "understand" columbine any better than I do now, because I know it very well and as a socially critical thinker I can construct what it is quite easily. It just won't positively effect me because I doubt there is anything new I can take from it and its motives alone are enough for me to construct the experience of the game. It is as simple as a cause and reaction, this is their motive and this is the desired reaction, I fail to see myself gaining that reaction from it.


On the whole you still don't bother discussing my point at all and hide behind a defense about me not playing it. Just because I do not experience something first hand does not mean I am not able to discern its purpose or meaning...that is something you do every single day as a human being.

An example: I may never go to the Sudan in africa but I can make a judgement on the killings there (to call it a genocide is questionable due to the semantics of the issue, it is none the less disgusting).

Whether or not people's differing experiences from the game are "cathartic" I am saying discursively the idea that it is a game or simulation is a disrespectful interpretaion because of how that medium chooses to relay reality. And quite frankly, if you understand my empathy argument I brought up early on you'll see why I think it is disrespectful, you may think it is a good idea because you are on the "outside" and therefore removed, but if you are to place yourself on the inside you will see it isn't as clearcut (not saying you would automatically then think it is bad, but you would probably understand why some people find it personally repugnant). The outsider and insider mindset is a dangerous one when it comes to traumatic events because it allows for sayings such as "this doesn't effect me, why should it matter", "this isn't my problem, why should I worry about it".

--The glaring problem with your argument based on your defense is that it is oh so easily turned. Sense obviously I must experience things first hand to actually understand therefore you are placed with the burden of doing so yourself for those who you condemn for judging but not playing, yet having some personal relation to Columbine (being in the communitty, knowing someone who died etc.) to understand why one would be against the game. Yet, you rely on an insider and outsider approach to understanding which limits your comprehension of both sides of the argument. Nonetheless, it is a flawed argument in the first place, but it shows how you should think it through more. You create a standard of comprehension that even you can't meet to sufficiently sway one side or another.

I concede that some people may see the game as creating some sort of pathos and interpretations vary, I understand both sides of the argument, but nonetheless a video game interpretation defines an event in reality in to one that is historically virtual and fantasy and therefore depreciates it.

im not bashing you for not playing the game at all.
I dont care if you play it or not.
The only thing i said was dont call it what it isnt when you dont even know.
Your judging a book by its cover here.

And saying that because i was excluded from the direct effect thus making me not care about it would be further from the truth than i could say.
If something of this calibur happened to me and a game was made in the same vein as this one, i honestly 100% would not be offended or mad about it. Im sure at first word of it id be like, WTF?! and get mad like everyone else, but being who i am id still check it out. But thats me, not saying you should too.
if i didnt play the game id research it at least to find what its really all about, which ive found from not even playing the game and researching it i still got the feeling it wasnt what its claimed to be.
The only way i would be offended by a game made after such an incidednt that directly effected me was if it was made to be fun and strayed far from the truth.

i respect your choice to not play the game fully.
Im just asking you dont call it what it isnt no matter how mad you are it exists. dont judge the book by its cover so to speak.

and ive pretty much said all i can say on this, its gettin repeatitive and you said what you needed to say so i think our debate is over and we agree to disagree in alot of places.
but ill respect your choice.

 

[Halifirien]

I concede that some people may see the game as creating some sort of pathos and interpretations vary, I understand both sides of the argument, but nonetheless a video game interpretation defines an event in reality in to one that is historically virtual and fantasy and therefore depreciates it.

That only holds true if you think video games are a lesser artform than books or movies or comics and thus is an unworthy medium for exploring those kinds of ideas. I strongly disagree with that. It's like someone saying "I can't believe someone would make a comic book about the holocaust" without ever reading Maus. I'm not saying this Columbine RPG reaches that level of art, but I don't think it's wrong of the programmer to strive for it.