Comedy Central censors southpark after threats of violence.

[Miros]

Funny, I don't feel I've missed the bigger picture. How could I? I see it over and over. These groups will never stop, no matter what you do. There will always be types that try to instill fear into you to control like marionettes... got it. The problem should be dealt with each and everytime. By keeping the cartoon aired and not doing another god damn thing isn't doing fuck all to prove you won't be bullied, in fact it plainly says to me that you'll quickly stick your heads in the sand, fingers in your ears and say neener neener we can't hear you. Until something comes of it.

The censorship could be a temporary measure to ensure peoples lives are not lost over this.

You guys have the heads up, you know what, you'll do with it what you will.

I just know the public has out cried about threats being received in other matters that were not acted upon that cost lives.

The reason why I think you've missed the big picture is because you haven't answered this question yet:

They always are. Higher death count = higher instillation of fear in the populace = more people pestering the government to give in to their demands, if they haven't already. As far as nukes are concerned, I'm not sure what to say, but I have a number of theories. The best of these theories is that they may fear that using a nuke will draw the ire of the entire civilized world, instead of just the Americans and whoever is left from the EU.

My understanding of all this is that it's not the cartoon that's worth dieing over, but instead the statement made by the cartoon.

That's a bunch of hogwash.

Please explain why.

You've just cut out a major part of this whole thread by saying "It's just a cartoon" and that's all. It's not just a cartoon and it's not just another group saying they'll kill people. Try to put all of the elements together before you get in a tantrum.

 

[Morcheeba]

Try to put all of the elements together before you get in a tantrum.

Holy Christ I have.

A major problem is you people seem to think it'll have to be an all out war. The only options available are to act in spite and ignore them or nuke them because they're over seas...

Diplomacy hasn't even been considered. These people are governed. Even if they deny the powers that be in their home country, they are governed.

Without spelling it out, that is what I've been suggesting needs to happen.

E- not sure if it's clear or not but I'm a tad bit of an idealist. This is how I believe things should be. I will always argue for what I believe.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

Morcheeba I think I can see where you're coming from, but simply have to disagree. Somebody made a statement and it happened to be in a cartoon, it could have been a painting, a video of somebody pretending to be the big M, you get the idea. You would argue that none of those things (art, video, cartoon) are worth dieing over, and I would again say it's about the message. Is this more or less correct?

If so it's just a case of different perspectives and there's no need [for you and me] to debate it as neither one of us seems like we're going to budge ^^;

 

[Raesvelg]

Problematically, it's not a simple diplomatic issue. There is no unified radical muslim world government, and terrorists have little respect for most of the governments in the countries from which they operate. Hell, they'll openly issue death threats with the support of their governments.

Ultimately, we're going to have to confront the elephant in the room, and backing down every time some radical nutjob issues a massively hypocritical death threat simply delays that, and in fact actively encourages that sort of behavior.

 

[Miros]

Holy Christ I have.

A major problem is you people seem to think it'll have to be an all out war. The only options available are to act in spite and ignore them or nuke them because they're over seas...

Diplomacy hasn't even been considered. These people are governed. Even if they deny the powers that be in their home country, they are governed.

Without spelling it out, that is what I've been suggesting needs to happen.

E- not sure if it's clear or not but I'm a tad bit of an idealist. This is how I believe things should be. I will always argue for what I believe.

Those are absolutely not the only options, and I don't know where I said it's going to be an all out war. What I did say is that since these threats have been happening for a while now that it might be a good idea to re-look at the tax status of some of these religious organizations. That's not a war, that's just taking away some of the rights they have if they are threatening to take lives.

I'm glad to hear you always argue for what you believe, but the problem with that is you will always argue with emotion and not logic and therefore unwilling to look at the other side. You might want to step away from your idealism when you're in debates. People will stop taking you seriously.

Problematically, it's not a simple diplomatic issue. There is no unified radical muslim world government, and terrorists have little respect for most of the governments in the countries from which they operate. Hell, they'll openly issue death threats with the support of their governments.

Ultimately, we're going to have to confront the elephant in the room, and backing down every time some radical nutjob issues a massively hypocritical death threat simply delays that, and in fact actively encourages that sort of behavior.

Nicely said.

 

[Thelona]

Morcheeba i understand where your coming from, but maybe its an American thing, when someone says "shutup or i'll kill you" I'm only gonna yell all the louder.

Its not about a cartoon, please stop saying that, its about the freedom of speech, which to me, is more then worth dieing for. I will not stand a society where ripping on one religion is off limits because some nuts Might start blowing shit up.

Secondly you talk as if i am willing to see people blown up just to see an uncensored episode of south park, that's not the case, I for one believe that

A: Censoring the episode has not changed anyone's mind, I don't believe for a second any radical Muslim that's trying to hunt down matt and tray, suddenly GAVE UP after seeing that the show got censored.
and
B: Caving only invites MORE such threats the next time they see something they don't like, thus risking even MORE human lives.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't even have a freedom of speech in Canada do you? can't you be JAILED there for "hate speech" or inflammatory language or w/e? (i mean no offense, i'm just asking)
if so maybe this is an American thing, Freedom of speech is something very important to us, and something we are NOT willing to compromise because some nut MIGHT blow something up if we say or draw the wrong thing.

what it comes down to is, its not about the cartoon, its about our belief that caving to such demands will have a WORSE effect in the long run, on both our freedoms, and lives.

Seems to remember a saying that goes something like " a society willing to sacrifice Liberty for safety deserves neither" I don't think that saying

Also morcheeba you say take it off the air till the nuts are dealt with, they are never going to be "dealt with" there will always be those willing to kill others for an offense, so sacrificing those freedoms till they are "dealt with" just means that your never getting those freedoms back.

also add in the fact these people arn't even being arrested because they know our laws and are dancing on their tiptoes with this stuff staying just within our laws, they are using our own freedom of speech to try and take ours away.

 

[Romper]

South Park didn't even show an image of Muhammad. He was censored the entire time. They're pissed that Muhammad was "shown" in a bear suit.

 

[Thelona]

even tho it was actually Santa Clause in the bear suit.

 

[Romper]

@ Morcheeba

This group is based out of, get ready for it cuz it's a doozy, New York. They aren't over seas. It was a US based organization that enjoys the same exact freedoms that South Park has to express. This same group believes in Osama Bin Laden. Why? I don't fucking know, but I'm not going to stomp on their free will to believe in Osama. This is such a dumb double standard. They can terrorize people, and be protected. But people can't make light of Islam with out them getting... well I'm going to stop here because this will turn into racial comments.

even tho it was actually Santa Clause in the bear suit.

I think that may have been one of the things censored out, maybe. I have a feeling they really wanted to put Muhammad in that suit.

 

[Georgebobbilly]

No it was really Santa in the suit, it was part of the story, the kids had stashed Big M somewhere else, where he was supposed to be shown on screen, but he was had a big censor bar over him for that and the rest of the episode.

 

[Thelona]

I think that may have been one of the things censored out, maybe. I have a feeling they really wanted to put Muhammad in that suit.

yeah what georgebobbilly said, it was part of the story, and Muhammad was SUPPOSED to be shown and spoken. it was taken out of the south park creators hands and censored by comedy central after the threats. they even censored kyles monologue at the end calling comedy central out, and stating that caving only perpetuates more of the same.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

Freedom of speech or not, I remember Canada being an awesome place to live in, save for the long drives to the market. I don't recall if there were any laws regarding freedom of speech, I was just a kid so things like that didn't really matter to me.

 

[Romper]

No it was really Santa in the suit, it was part of the story, the kids had stashed Big M somewhere else, where he was supposed to be shown on screen, but he was had a big censor bar over him for that and the rest of the episode.

By censored out i meant totally redone.

 

[Georgebobbilly]

I know, but that was how the story was supposed to go, Matt and Trey said they delivered the finished episode to CC and CC added the Beeps and Bars.

 

[Zaltana]

I've been watching this thread for a good while. And i wonder one thing above all else. how is this extremist group able to base itself in the very city the man they idolize committed the greatest man made disaster in the history of this country? I find it extremely blasphemous, not to mention hypocritical of their own beliefs, to even allow these people to benefit from the very laws of the land they hate so much. And in light of these treats why wasn't the FBI banging on their door the next day?

But enough of that. Morch's argument is based on reason and rationality, not a bad place to start from, in most situations. However when it comes to zealots, especially religions ones, reason and rationality are cast to the wayside. Zealots, by definition, are fueled by sheer emotion and beliefs. There is no room for rationality in their thinking as they are, literally, a slave to their beliefs. They don't think things through they just react. In that regard you can akin them to robots that simply do only what they are programed to do. Much like our friends in the WBC. Just as there is no reasoning with them, there is no reasoning with these muslam extremists either. There is no blanket manner to deal with all situations. Our government policy to never give into the demands of terrorists is in place to further deter such actions. It is in no way under the illusion that it will keep everyone safe. It serves to minimize the number of casualties in a crisis. The time may soon come when we have to fight fire with fire.

 

[Dayner]

being a muslim myself i can understand how the revolution muslim group feel about about the whole issue , even though i don't agree in how they give out threats to resolve it ...


sadly its staring to effect the other side of world , a lot of Muslims are showing their supports for the group in the internet , and its only matter of time before its shows on the local news , its just another fuel for fire called terrorism

i don't understand why everyone want to try to reopen the wounds that a lot people are trying it to close it , in my eyes both party's are to blames , both are willing to die and drag everyone with it just to hold up to their ideas

 

[Morcheeba]

This is the thing, and Miros you may feel my idealism as radical as it can be at times or logical at others may prove to lose ground with my peers, that would never shift my views.

I was unaware this group was within the US, that although not coming as a shock, it begs the question why won't they be dealt with? Are they immigrants, they are extremists and have no qualms showing that. How is it uttering death threats in such a way is perfectly legal??

Dayner you bring up an excellent point, you feeling the blame is on both sides of the table. I agree.

If no one is willing to do anything to directly effect the outcome of such threats and the people that utter them then no one has the room to complain about them. Judging by a lot of peoples opinions in this thread, CC is probably amongst the minority in how they felt it would be properly handled. I happen to agree with them.

These people should lose their freedoms as a direct result of their actions which just so happen to be verbal. None-the-less, it's illegal here to utter death threats and it should be no different there. If they're immigrants than to me that's enough reason to deport their asses.

For absolutely nothing to happen to defend against such attacks then it's deserved. And to ignore the threats and continue airing shows that have been pin-pointed as enough to kill over.. yeah take it seriously and take action.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

I've been thinking ... do we know for sure that it was definitely a threat that was given to M&T from this group? Maybe it was a warning, stating that if they keep it up, some other group will try to kill them. You know how the media can be ... that would explain why no action was taken against them. With their website now a very humorous depiction of everything they hate, it's hard to tell.

 

[Raesvelg]

Revolution Islam maintains their claim that they made no threat, and simply warned Matt & Trey about what would probably happen to them as a result of the program that had already been shown.

Not a "Hey, you'll probably get killed if you actually show a real depiction of Muhammad next week", but a "Hey, you'll probably get killed because you showed Muhammad in a bear suit."

The individual they referenced was Theo van Gogh, who was gunned down by an Islamic militant for making a film critical of Islamic treatment of women.

That is to say that he was shot something like 8-9 times, stabbed repeatedly, and a decapitation was attempted by the murderer.

And people wonder why we don't like Islamic fundamentalists.

Of course, in the case of Revolution Muslim, if you dig a tiny bit further (which can be difficult, given that I expect their site to get raped again in the next few days or so), you'll find the truth of their position on the matter.

Which is this: In the opinion of RM, it is the duty of every "true" Muslim to kill anyone who would mock or depict their prophets.

I find it odd that the issue of mockery being punishable by death only came up now, when South Park had finally turned a focused eye on Muhammad. After all, Moses and Jesus are considered prophets as well, and Revolution Muslim had nothing at all to say, no thinly-veiled death threats or incitements to murder, when Matt & Trey mocked Moses and Jesus, nor when they've repeatedly excoriated Judaism and Christianity.

One could argue that in giving offense, the creators of South Park become guilty parties in this whole mess. Personally, I consider that to be complete and utter bullshit, but even if that were the case, it would be critical to note that only one party would still be guilty of hypocrisy.

Revolution Muslim has made a practice, incidentally, of skirting the fine line between free speech and incitement to criminal action, and I really hope that this time they get busted for the latter. Though, given how ridiculously tolerant we are of hate speech as preached by religiously-motivated organizations (fuck you, Westboro Baptist Church), that is rather unlikely.

 

[Romper]

I've been watching this thread for a good while. And i wonder one thing above all else. how is this extremist group able to base itself in the very city the man they idolize committed the greatest man made disaster in the history of this country? I find it extremely blasphemous, not to mention hypocritical of their own beliefs, to even allow these people to benefit from the very laws of the land they hate so much. And in light of these treats why wasn't the FBI banging on their door the next day?

But enough of that. Morch's argument is based on reason and rationality, not a bad place to start from, in most situations. However when it comes to zealots, especially religions ones, reason and rationality are cast to the wayside. Zealots, by definition, are fueled by sheer emotion and beliefs. There is no room for rationality in their thinking as they are, literally, a slave to their beliefs. They don't think things through they just react. In that regard you can akin them to robots that simply do only what they are programed to do. Much like our friends in the WBC. Just as there is no reasoning with them, there is no reasoning with these muslam extremists either. There is no blanket manner to deal with all situations. Our government policy to never give into the demands of terrorists is in place to further deter such actions. It is in no way under the illusion that it will keep everyone safe. It serves to minimize the number of casualties in a crisis. The time may soon come when we have to fight fire with fire.

Like all religious nut jobs they truly don't understand their religion. Islamic are suppose to be pacifists.