Conditioning

[Dejavu]

So… today I went out to Red Robin to some food, a drink and to watch the ASU v. U of A basketball game. Now even though I go to ASU currently I am a former U of A student and am still a very big U of A fan. This being said I was watching the game and was fairly involved when I see a play I didn’t like and I made the comment “Oh come on learn how to fucking block.” This comment was followed by me getting yelled at by the lady with kids who was sitting somewhat close and then asked to leave by my waitress because apparently saying the Fucking once was enough to cause permanent damage.

Anyways I am not really arguing getting thrown out of the Red Robin because it is a family place but it did get me thinking about the way that we are conditioned in this country.

Is there some actual reason that certain words are considered bad enough that we shouldn’t hear them in a restaurant? No we are conditioned to believe that they are bad for some reason. There is not a permanent effect to hearing the word fuck what difference does it make other than just something else that we are not supposed to do. Its arbitrary. I mean my ears don’t bleed when I hear someone else curse in another language. A curse word only gets its power because the people that don’t want it to be said give it that power.

Then I took it a step further on my ride home and I starting thinking what other things are completely arbitrary conditioning. I mean in my opinion we are no different than animals but this point is probably going to get argued. Why do we have to wear clothes. I mean pants or underwear I can understand for cleanliness purposes since u can get diseases from going ass to ass with someone but why is it considered sinful to go into public areas not wearing shirts and so forth. Why is it a crime to show frontal nudity on Tv? Does it in some way make you a bad person see boobs… nope arbitrary conditioning once again.

To prove my point I want to take a look at the drinking age. I have always been able to drink in my family as far back as I can remember. I got drunk for the first time in my life with my parents because it was never seen as a bad thing to drink. I mean in European countries it is not seen as a bad thing to drink as a kid and because of there being no build up to a drinking age there is no rebellion once you can drink. I mean I drank all the time in high school with my parents and didn’t really think much of it but then came the freedom of college and my recreational drinking turned into an omg I’m soo cool I can drink every night if I want to and I’m only 19 problem. Now if drinking in this country was not given the same stigma that it was in other countries would I have had my heavy drinking phase?

In all honesty Americans have some of the strongest alcohol laws in the world and we probably have the worst problem with alcoholics. Why is it that countries with little to no alcohol laws have less issues with alcoholism. People say that alcoholism is a disease and that they cant help it that they drink as much as they do but why is it that Americans seem to get this disease more often than people from other countries. It’s the easy fucking way out from admitting that the laws prohibiting it are in fact making it worse.

Anyways this post is really just a philosophical question of why do we make things that we don’t like worse by giving them a platform to become even worse. A murder is a dead man until it becomes a martyr. I am just wondering everyone else’s thoughts on the subject of conditioning.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Because we're a Christian nation, founded on Christian values.
Oh wait...

 

[Elemmire]

lol... mothers have become stupidly overprotective of their kids and refuse to take responsibility when things go wrong.. sickens me..

besides.. if she was a good mother she wouldn't take her kids to Heart-Attack-On-A-Bun (aka Red Robins).. I swear that food is greasier and unhealthier for you than anything I've had >.> or maybe it's just the one around here. Tastes good, I agree.. but not good for you XD

 

[Excalibur]

Other than the "people are the same as animals", I agree with everything you said in that post Dej, but that's not what this topic is about so I'm not going to get into that.

It's kind of along the same lines as pot(omg I'm talking about pot, bet you didn't see that one coming), what harm does marijuana do? The only reason some people don't like it is because it's illegal. The only reason it's bad is because society has put a label on it as being something bad. People hear all their lives that it's bad, so it gets engraved into their minds that it's bad, and they don't even know why. It's the same for swearing or boobs. Some could argue that showing boobs is bad because it induces arousal, but it only does that because we've made them tabboo. Look at the African tribes you see on national geographic, the dudes there aren't all running around with boners cause the women are topless, it's just not seen as a big deal. Saying something is wrong just for the sake of being wrong is the dumbest shit humans have ever done.

 

[Dejavu]

you guys disappoint me... i was hoping this would be a good talking thread

 

[Excalibur]

you guys disappoint me... i was hoping this would be a good talking thread

So was I =/

 

[Romper]

The funny part is the kids probably hear any form of fuck, shit etc at home from the parents.

 

[Deadbeet]

have to say I agree with all of the above. other than the heavy potheads that don't do shit cause they're losers, I know tons of people who smoke it and they're perfectly normal and function fine.

As for alcohol, I could have drank at any time while living at home, and when i turned 21 it was basically another day, i have no real reason to drink.

this thread also kinda ties in with the two dress code threads for some reason it's wrong for guys and girls to look certain ways according to some people. I get extremely irritated by arbitrary codes, especially alone gender lines. Women should not have to wear skirts/pantyhose and men should be allowed to have their ears pierced and long (well groomed) hair as well. I turned down a job at the local grocery store because their dress code was so sexist (and had a clause saying no facial hair below the upper lip, WTF is that, a mustache but no other facial hair! fyi, i don't shave my chin because i always end up bleeding [not from doing it wrong] but i keep it trimmed and look quite decent with it ^^)

 

[Falsey]

I say put the child in the room with Blackmagic and Myrrh for a few hours and then hearing the word fucking will be the least of their worries.

 

[Raesvelg]

Leaving aside the whole issue with societal conditioning and the inherent foolishness of lamenting it...

America has the most problems with alcoholics because we place the greatest stigma on drinking, duh. By the US definition, significant chunks of Europe are comprised largely of alcoholics. We do have that little spike in the college years due to the "forbidden fruit" aspect of drinking, but in the long run it settles back down.

 

[Begen]

for myself, im not much of a drinker, in high school its pretty much the norm. Being cool and rebelling and also its supposidly fun. ive drank a few times but i dont feel the need to drink. At 16 i dont drink, and when i become 18 i dont plan on drinking either.

kids at my school drink every weekend both fri and sat sometimes at parties, which arent my thing. It might be easier to get alcohol here in Canada then the US too cause the drinking age in my province (Alberta) is 18 XD

 

[Eilistrae]

they asked you to leave for only saying fucking one time? They should have merely asked you to watch your language or something... you are a paying customer, it wasn't really right for them to kick you out for saying one "bad" word.

 

[Dejavu]

Well the woman was not letting it go and i wasn't backing down either. It was kind of over when i said, "If you genuinely wanted to be a good parent, perhaps next time dont take your kids to a fucking bar during happy hour." Also its not like i was sitting at a table either i was sitting at the bar.

But thats not the point... it was more of a lead in to my philosophical questions about the way our values are built and lead to our failure.

 

[Eilistrae]

sorry I'm on cold meds that make me loopy, I thought you getting kicked out was more appalling

 

[Neche]

I went to catholic school, and at times even saying words in place of swears got me a "Adam! Watch your mouth."

I want to know WHY they are considered wrong, personally I swear during occurrences of extreme emotion, where thinking of an appropriate synonym for how I feel isn't going to cut it. Swears are used in that way everywhere. Movies, TV, and everyone else really, I'm not special. You hit your finger with a hammer, you'll probably say FUCK, and not "oh golly gee that hurt." That is just how swears were presented to me in my life, and probably a lot of others as well.

I think this fits along the stigma of "If everyone thinks its wrong, then it probably is." For reasons unknown to me, these words were set aside as the bad apples of the vernacular world. The only way for them to become acceptable is for everyone to agree so.

The older generations are the ones currently in charge of the world right now, either one or two old. In those days, swears were swears, and you would be reprimanded if you used them. I can say that generation "why?" or "Y" (shortened version, to fit in with Generation X, although it stands for Why?) is being split in two. On one side, you have kids trying to play gangsters, and kids who think the world owes them something for whatever reason. I'm talking about kids (12-17), I don't consider them teenagers for shear lack of respect and maturity these kids have, walking around with knives, and batons, who are prepared to try and beat anyone who looks at them wrong. I'm not saying they can but they will try. Obviously harsh language has a nice little niche in there culture. These gangsters will eventually turn into actual ones, or become low lives.

I've actually had these kind of kids throw head fakes and try to talk smack to me multiple times, and I'm taken back by the fact that they have that kind of audacity.

I can see where the line is drawn from these wannabe gangsters and people who are actually normal. It's the kids who are one year younger than me where you can really see the difference. Kids in my class were hardly anywhere close to how these kids are. Even at 16, they go get drunk every weekend, do an insane amount of drugs (from pot to coke), and wear ridiculously expensive clothes they make their parents buy for them. Their girls as well are getting sluttier and sluttier (no offense to any ladies). Example: I was brushing off my car a couple days ago, and some kids from the Jr. High down the street from my house were walking by, no comments were said or looks, but they were talking about how one of their friends would, and I quote "His dick would poke her and make her bleed."(as a small dick joke, not about ignorance of menstruation) and various mutual masterbation comments. COMING FROM 13-15 year olds. I wont place blame onto anything, but it seems sex, and sexual acts are becoming excessively more and more common from the younger members of my generation.

I'm rambling.

ANYWAY, swearing is becoming more and more acceptable, compared to the past. Once the older generations start passing power to the next, I believe that eventually "swearing" will fade into dust. By the time generation Y becomes the dominant generation, I believe that swearing will probably be non-existent, swears will be like every other word. There may be words to replace them, I can't make that call.

I personally NEVER swear in front of my parents. I think it's very disrespectful. This will sound contradictory. I don't believe swears are wrong, but I was brought up believing they were, so although I don't believe they're wrong it's ground into me that they are. So I always act on it in such a way. Swearing in front of a lady is also pretty inappropriate, even if she is a very close friend, I won't, it just isn't right.

Just how I view it. And that Ladies kids, already have heard much worse, I can guarantee you that.

 

[Tristam Green]

America has the most problems with alcoholics because we place the greatest stigma on drinking, duh. By the US definition, significant chunks of Europe are comprised largely of alcoholics. We do have that little spike in the college years due to the "forbidden fruit" aspect of drinking, but in the long run it settles back down.

Building on this:

We have a large problem with alcoholism in this country not because of our laws or because of inattention to them concerning alcohol, but moreso due to our collective attitude towards it. Unlike many other nations where alcoholics are ridiculed and shamed not for being alcoholics but for their behaviors while drunk, we actually find them (and their behaviors) HILARIOUS and, for lack of a better term, we molly-coddle them.

I challenge you (not Raesvelg exclusively, it's not meant to sound like that) to look through this list:

The Top 20 Fictional Drunks

Now, tell me, how many do you recognize, and how many did you find funny in their lush antics?