Actually Vang, when we wiped on Fafnir, we only had 1 whm there. I had a class, so I got back after the fight and was told there was only 1 whm that showed up. It's kinda hard to win when you don't have enough people there.
As for Tiamat, we didn't wipe on our last attempt. Ignoring the posts of the people who weren't there and who also ignored the posts of the people who actually were at the fight, we never said we wiped. We got him to 45%, then a member of our alliance accidently called for help on an add. Then we all logged to clear the CFH, some people died before they could finishing logging off, but most managed to log off. That whole thread was a mistake to be posted and Cubs' desire for entertainment obviously overwrote people's desire to not cause strain between the two shells, especially because of a thread based on an erroneous OP.