Connecticut religous groups want same sex exemptions

[Rips]

Marriage gives a husband/wife or his/her family control over a spouse’s property, it gives a husband/wife responsibility for a spouse’s debts, it gives a husband/wife visitation rights when his/her spouse is incarcerated or hospitalized, it gives a husband/wife control over his/her spouse’s affairs when the spouse is incapacitated, and it also offers certain tax benefits.

There are several rights and privileges heterosexuals take for granted that homosexuals are denied completely.

Thanks man. I'm looking for the list now. This is why it's a big deal Toma. It's not the "WE WANT TO BE MARRIED LIKE YOU! OVERTURN PROP 8 NOW!" thinking some others are implying. It's this above and so much more. This is why courts need to be involved. Not giving these things to same sex female and same sex male couples is discrimination.

You can do 1 of 2 things.

1) Allow same sex couples to marry

or

2) Let them have Civil Unions and give them all the rights same sex couples have.

Now, 2) may seem a lot more appealing to those not wanting Gay marriage, but then there's the whole dispute in the constitution saying anyone has the right to marry. I don't know much about that at all so I can't comment, but 2) may not be enough.

 

[Halifirien]

Out of the 4 that do allow it, Vermont was the only one that did it through legitimate channels. The three other states used legal trickery from liberal judges to legislate an old law that was NEVER intended to allow gay marriage when it was written over a hundred years ago.

I wouldn't characterize them as "liberal" judges. In a cruel irony that makes me laugh and cringe at the same time, most of the time it tends to be the conservative, GOP-appointed judges who scour the law and rule against discriminating against gay people and singling them out by saying their relationships are unworthy of protection.

I also don't see how you can argue those marriage decisions aren't legitimate. Deciding the constitutionality of laws is one of the jobs of the judiciary. Protecting minorities from "the tyranny of the majority" is one of their jobs.

You wonder why issues like this keep coming up? When you try to shove gay marriage down peoples throat of course there's going to be backlash. What the gay community lacks is patience. They want everyone to accept it now.

Do you think the nation was "ready" for interracial marriage when Loving vs. Virginia was handed down? The percentages of Americans against such "race mixing" back then was even higher than what you can muster today against civil marriage for gay people. It didn't mean the judges were wrong.

I agree that it takes time to change people's minds, but the clamor isn't going to stop anytime soon, nor should it. There will never be "a good time" to ask for equality. You have to claw for it and fight tooth and nail. There was a time when "civil unions" were a completely radical idea, and now it's considered the fallback compromise. That would never have happened if the gay community hadn't forcefully argued that "civil unions" aren't good enough. I'd rather have the protections available now and let the resentful homophobes die off on their own time.

I just hope Obama makes good on his pledge to repeal DOMA. The federalist approach means nothing if couples who marry in states that want to allow marriage equality still can't file joint tax returns and can still be forced to testify against each other in court.

 

[Tomasello]

Marriage gives a husband/wife or his/her family control over a spouse’s property, it gives a husband/wife responsibility for a spouse’s debts, it gives a husband/wife visitation rights when his/her spouse is incarcerated or hospitalized, it gives a husband/wife control over his/her spouse’s affairs when the spouse is incapacitated, and it also offers certain tax benefits.

So will a good attorney if you make your partner administrator of your estate, beneficiary of your will, etc. etc. etc. You don't need marriage for that.

I also don't see how you can argue those marriage decisions aren't legitimate. Deciding the constitutionality of laws is one of the jobs of the judiciary. Protecting minorities from "the tyranny of the majority" is one of their jobs.

Interpreting laws to apply to something the writers of the law NEVER intended is legal manipulation and legislation from the bench. If gay marriage advocates want it badly enough they can do what they did in Vermont. Convince the voters. You got 1 state to do it so and a few others were very close like California so obviously its not impossible. It just won't be easy but no fight ever is.

I have to laugh when gays compare there "plight" to blacks or women. No one is denying you the right to vote or making you sit in the back of the bus. Is your life with your partner really going to be any different with a stupid piece of paper that says marriage on it?

 

[chinis]

I have to laugh when gays compare there "plight" to blacks or women. No one is denying you the right to vote or making you sit in the back of the bus. Is your life with your partner really going to be any different with a stupid piece of paper that says marriage on it?

No one that I saw is comparing those things. They're comparing gay marriage to interracial marriage. Same concept. Two people of different races was omgwrong, now 2 guys/girls getting married is wrong supposedly. Anyway, I don't think anyone should be able to get "married". Give everyone a civil union. As for the same sex exepmtions, don't businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason? Let them, they'll go out of business from the bad publicity.

 

[Halifirien]

So will a good attorney if you make your partner administrator of your estate, beneficiary of your will, etc. etc. etc. You don't need marriage for that.

No, you don't. You can pay an attorney hundreds in legal fees for documents that are still regularly contested in court by family members with an axe to grind; hundreds of dollars and weeks of work to approximate something a drunk hetero couple can get in an afternoon for the price of a marriage license at a Las Vegas Qwik-E-Wed with an Elvis impersonator reading the vows. That's an undue burden that can easily be avoided by simply recognizing gay marriages as equal under civil law.

If gay marriage advocates want it badly enough they can do what they did in Vermont. Convince the voters. You got 1 state to do it so and a few others were very close like California so obviously its not impossible. It just won't be easy but no fight ever is.

And those states likely would not be where they are now if gay couples hadn't fought for and won the right to marry in other states and shown the rest of the country that planet wouldn't be engulfed in fire. Court victories cause backlashes, true, but they also show what's possible so we can double our efforts.

 

[Tomasello]

No one that I saw is comparing those things. They're comparing gay marriage to interracial marriage. Same concept. Two people of different races was omg wrong, now 2 guys/girls getting married is wrong supposedly. Anyway, I don't think anyone should be able to get "married". Give everyone a civil union. As for the same sex exepmtions, don't businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason? Let them, they'll go out of business from the bad publicity.

I apologize, I didn't realize it was being brought up from the interracial perspective. Making it legal is not going to change the "omg that's wrong" people from still thinking that. Most people who oppose gay marriage do so for religious reasons and even the most beautifully crafted legislation won't change that.

All I'm saying is the more aggressively the gay community becomes in pursuing it the more backlash can be expected. Very firmly but passively approach it. Talk, debate, convince people its a good thing. Treat the religious zealots whom you will never convince with respect regardless. The way you want to be treated. Eventually fair minded people will come around. It's going to happen regardless.

 

[Skaw]

You wonder why issues like this keep coming up? When you try to shove gay marriage down peoples throat of course there's going to be backlash. What the gay community lacks is patience. They want everyone to accept it now. For a concept that was unthinkable 20 years ago its a big pill for some people to swallow. I'm conservative in much of my thinking but I would vote for gay marriage. If two people want to live miserable married lives like all the straight people why not? I really don't understand why gay marriage is a big deal. What I do object to how some radicals have tried to force it onto the law books.

Eventually gay marriage will happen. It's unstoppable, but it needs to be done in a manner that is legitimate in peoples eyes. Through the voting booths not court manipulation. Gay marriage is a phobia of the older generation. They are the predominate voters. When our generation who is far more open to gay marriage start to vote in larger numbers when we get older, slowly but certainly gay marriage will pass in most states. It will unfortunately take more time then most people would like.

You wonder why issues like this keep coming up? When you try to shove black rights down peoples throat of course there's going to be backlash. What the black community lacks is patience. They want everyone to accept it now. For a concept that was unthinkable 20 years ago its a big pill for some people to swallow. I'm conservative in much of my thinking but I would vote for black rights. If black people want to live equal lives like all the white people why not? I really don't understand why black rights is a big deal. What I do object to how some radicals have tried to force it onto the law books.

Eventually black rights will happen. It's unstoppable, but it needs to be done in a manner that is legitimate in peoples eyes. Through the voting booths not court manipulation. Black rights is a phobia of the older generation. They are the predominate voters. When our generation who is far more open to black rights start to vote in larger numbers when we get older, slowly but certainly black rights will pass in most states. It will unfortunately take more time then most people would like.

You wonder why issues like this keep coming up? When you try to shove womens rights down peoples throat of course there's going to be backlash. What the female community lacks is patience. They want everyone to accept it now. For a concept that was unthinkable 20 years ago its a big pill for some people to swallow. I'm conservative in much of my thinking but I would vote for womens rights. If women want to live equal lives like all the men why not? I really don't understand why womens rights is a big deal. What I do object to how some radicals have tried to force it onto the law books.

Eventually womens rights will happen. It's unstoppable, but it needs to be done in a manner that is legitimate in peoples eyes. Through the voting booths not court manipulation.Womens rights is a phobia of the older generation. They are the predominate voters. When our generation who is far more open to womens rights start to vote in larger numbers when we get older, slowly but certainly womens rights will pass in most states. It will unfortunately take more time then most people would like.

Such similar topics, that simply changing key phrases around and your post is still legitimate, just in the wrong year. If you still think that equality isn't a big deal, then you really don't belong in the free world. Nobody was given equal rights by just sitting quietly, waiting for it to be given to them.

 

[Tomasello]

Bitter lefty garbage....

Black or female rights not the same thing as gay marriage. Not even close. Tell a jim crow era black guy a gay's right to marry is the same as the racisim, lynchings, humiliation they experienced. The black community as already denounced the comparison.

 

[Skaw]

Black or female rights not the same thing as gay marriage. Not even close. Tell a jim crow era black guy a gay's right to marry is the same as the racisim, lynchings, humiliation they experienced. The black community as already denounced the comparison.

I didn't say they were the same thing, dude. Blacks got their equal rights by raising their voices. Women got their equal rights by raising their voices. Telling Gays to shut up and wait isn't going to get them their equal rights.

 

[Halifirien]

The black community as already denounced the comparison.

Don't tell that to Coretta Scott King.

 

[Rari]

Really this just boils down to which side is going to concede. Both sides are going to look for paths of least resistance to push their agenda. The article in the OP really isn't a surprise. You will see tactics like that, from both sides, as long as this debate rolls on. Which in all likely hood, will be a very long time. Because, again, of the concession bit.

Each measure, bill, or proposition is going to be voted on according to that person's own ideals. For some that means choosing to not recognize the legitimacy of a gay couple. Which is really what homosexuals are looking for. And so, the battle continues...






Sorry, couldn't resist, but here's a chuckle:

make their own fucking country.

Look up 1776.




(...sarcasm. No need to reply to that.)

 

[Tomasello]

I didn't say they were the same thing, dude.

You swapped the words out of my statement in a sad attempt to imply they were the same thing dude. I never said anywhere they should shut up dude. I said, "Talk, debate, convince people its a good thing." dude. Legislation from the bench is a bad thing dude. Try to get your facts straight dude before your comment dude. Ok dude?

 

[Halifirien]

Legislation from the bench is a bad thing dude.

Only when you disagree with the decision. When you agree with it, everything's just lovely.

 

[Tomasello]

Don't tell that to Coretta Scott King.

Is she the black community or an individual? Blacks also vote traditionally against gay marriage ironically enough. Hispanics as well if I'm not mistaken. That might be a biproduct of their Catholicism though.

Only when you disagree with the decision. When you agree with it, everything's just lovely.

Not in my opinion.

 

[Zoolander]

I dunno, maybe this is me, but the whole idea of Gay Marriage being one of the major, hot button issues for the last decade or so really pisses me off. To think that this is somehow an important issue is just friggen insane.

Either way, as far as ontopic goes, here in Florida they actually passed an amendment that potentially greatly reduced the amount of rights Domestic Partnerships had (yay for reducing human rights) so in a way their quest for gay marriage actually kind of blew up in their faces along with some collateral damage in the form of hetero domestic partnerships that for one reason or another do not wish to be married.

The fact that 55% or more Americans are so against fags getting married to me is just...staggering. Who gives a shit, honestly. All these religious folk talk about how the bible says being gay is wrong...I wonder how many of them had premarital sex or did other things against the bible. I know every single "friend" I have that was against gay marriage sure as hell didnt let the bible stop them from gettin freaky before they were married. I guess it just further exemplifies the endless hypocrisy of organized religion. Just ridiculous to use religion as justification for reducing the rights of people.

 

[Cerato]

Damnit, I’m tired of getting all fired up, readying my response only to find I’m too damn late/slow and someone else has said what I wanted to say, far more articulately and eloquently. Oh well, I’ll say my piece anyway.

I have to laugh when gays compare there "plight" to blacks or women. No one is denying you the right to vote or making you sit in the back of the bus. Is your life with your partner really going to be any different with a stupid piece of paper that says marriage on it?

How on earth can you imply that people need to slow down and wait for equal rights? Do you live in a fucking bubble? You would have told people fighting for civil rights in the 1960s, “Relax, you can’t push it….it takes time for people to get used to the idea…” Fuck that. Why should I operate on someone else’s timetable?

The only way shit gets done is when people demand to be heard and bang on the doors excessively. How dare you imply anyone should wait for equal rights.

Marriage gives a husband/wife or his/her family control over a spouse’s property, it gives a husband/wife responsibility for a spouse’s debts, it gives a husband/wife visitation rights when his/her spouse is incarcerated or hospitalized, it gives a husband/wife control over his/her spouse’s affairs when the spouse is incapacitated, and it also offers certain tax benefits.

There are several rights and privileges heterosexuals take for granted that homosexuals are denied completely.

This. I recently got married to my boyfriend of 12 years because of the above. In fact, it was the gay marriage issue that opened my eyes to what we could lose if we didn’t get married. We're lucky it was so easy. I won't shut up until it is for everyone.

 

[Rips]

The fact that 55% or more Americans are so against fags getting married to me is just...staggering.

If we're slim, smooth, black honey lipped Bolivar cigars then smoke us up baby.

 

[chinis]

I apologize, I didn't realize it was being brought up from the interracial perspective. Making it legal is not going to change the "omg that's wrong" people from still thinking that. Most people who oppose gay marriage do so for religious reasons and even the most beautifully crafted legislation won't change that.

All I'm saying is the more aggressively the gay community becomes in pursuing it the more backlash can be expected. Very firmly but passively approach it. Talk, debate, convince people its a good thing. Treat the religious zealots whom you will never convince with respect regardless. The way you want to be treated. Eventually fair minded people will come around. It's going to happen regardless.

Oh yeah, I never said that they won't keep thinking it's wrong, but eventually less and less will see it as wrong the longer it's legal. As for the religious zealots, at least me personally, I have no respect for most of them. Westbro Baptist Church is the first that comes to mind, and I'd rather eat dog crap than have to show respect to those kind of people. Religion shouldn't be used as a tool for hate, but that's something else I won't go into.

 

[Acutie]

Let em be as miserable and the rest of the people. Personally I don't think it's really marriage, but I wouldn't deny them the right to do it. Two things that aren't the same shouldn't really be called the same thing right, or at least differentiate them somehow. Green and red grapes are both grapes but they aren't the same and I don't think anyone would call them the same.

 

[Skaw]

You swapped the words out of my statement in a sad attempt to imply they were the same thing dude. I never said anywhere they should shut up dude. I said, "Talk, debate, convince people its a good thing." dude. Legislation from the bench is a bad thing dude. Try to get your facts straight dude before your comment dude. Ok dude?

Damn, you absolutely do not read, do you? I said they were similar topics, and that if you just change words in your argument, they'd have held up as being said by people during the fights for those rights.

You're right, you didn't outright say they should shut up, but saying they need patience implies that they should settle down with pressing their issue. Which is the last thing you should be doing when it comes to wanting equality.

Let em be as miserable and the rest of the people. Personally I don't think it's really marriage, but I wouldn't deny them the right to do it. Two things that aren't the same shouldn't really be called the same thing right, or at least differentiate them somehow. Green and red grapes are both grapes but they aren't the same and I don't think anyone would call them the same.

Separate But Equal isn't equality.