consolidation of rng hate threads

[Ugotjacked]

Actually Hellstorm, stigmatas is a very good ranger.

I think the nerf distance thing is a dissability more than anytihng. We suck 10 times worse at Scing now. If we want to do optimal damage the mob will most likely turn and run at us thruwing offthe player. But when we are partying with a thief and we need to turn the mob we cant because we are to close and our damage is cut in half.

I understand the level cap thing but the distance is pointless. It doesnt even make sense in terms of how a gun or crossbow or bow works in RL. If you shoot someone with a gun at point blank it is going to be very accurate but in Final Fantasy its gonna have horrible accuracy and damage.

This post is pretty old isnt it?

 

[Ugotjacked]

Sorry that was a horrible post its past my bedtime.

 

[Stigmatas]

i'm not saying its impossible, but you have a bard there.
what other effect did they move have on it? dia2 i know for sure.

its part jonas skill part DOT's

 

[TheGreatJonas]

err as for the debuffs....whatever you fight in any exp party or such....should have those defuffs....thats normal...also let another RNG try to go do that kind of damage...with any debuffs you wish....just no BRD two hour because thats cheating!


If the mobs arent debuffed....um then something else is the problem..


oh yes as for your doubting of my pre-nerf damage! Those pants are from Kurrea.....i think he was put into the game after Nerf...i quit for 3 months, then cameback about a month and a half now i believe.


As for the SC issue, its not that hard really, just walk up after you Sidewinder(i have no other WS!) I can SC with Unphazed just fine!

 

[TheGreatJonas]

Next time i fight Gods and Kirin gonna post damage....its not as bad as you think. Its not that much less....

 

[Stouter]

The silver ingot price is so high because they're used in a ton of recipies, and they're a pain in the arse to make. 48 non-stackable items to get 1 stack of ingots?! ugh!

...

And let me also state that the equip to be an "average" RNG (no HQ) is REALLY cheap. I wouldn't doubt if you can get away with a sub 500k setup and still do *ok*. I'm not really sure on the price of guns though, since the only RNG I've ever partied with has HQ everything, and I've never had a reason to check gun prices.

There are other ways to get silver ingots besides synthing them. Desynth of silver rings/earrings (NPC in jeuno, always open, always the same price)

Ranger does have fairly cheap equipment, but is that really a good thing? Rng has no SH, no Hauby, no Byrnie. E-Bow isn't overpowered vs other ranged weapons, and PCC is nominally better than ranger necklace/jagd gorget for rng in most situations. When I hit 70, I had less than 1M in equip at the time, and there wasn't really any gear that I would swap out if I could, with the exception of minimal upgrades not worth the price (genin earring, 1 more AGI for 1M, PCC, 5 racc and 10 acc for a loss of 6 ratt, etc)

Look at gear for ranger through level 70, you get gear at 30, which lasts to/beyond AF, and then that lasts til god gear at 75. Feet, 3 AGI, then 4 AGI. Body, 3 racc, then 10 racc or 4 STR/AGI. Legs, 2 racc or 1 STR. Hands, 2 racc, 2 AGI, or 1 STR. The rangers that were doing these large numbers that were overpowered were the ones that hit 70+ and finally had access to actual damage gear. So putting them "on par" does what to the level 1-60 rng that has no damage gear, and couldn't afford to lose racc before the nerf, let alone after it even if they had gear?

what are you complaining about beside pal, whm, rdm, and blm rng is one the only classes that stay in a kirin alliance full time, and you bitching

Nice response, one fight = the entire fucking game.

I'm just also stating that in end game the need for accuracy is not that great.

It's shows that you don't have an end game rng, the need for acc for rng is higher now than for melee, and we have 4 accuracy bonus traits.

the nerf was needed to balance to melee deal with it, dont whine.

Balance would be fine with me, but what happened was way beyond balace. And damage, why does everyone look at the one big ws? Yes, Jonas can do 2k+ damage ws with warcry/berserk/double minuet/damage food/Dia II/choke/100M worth of gear to a VT mob at 75. Can't all melee? War/nin and Mnk/war could out DoT rng BEFORE the nerf in exp, the only difference was their damage on the ultra high level mobs.

skillz rng know about timing yes kirin run around but he run in a prettey set pattern around and around if a whm/smn can stick blink on a tank while he is running you should have no trouble hitting kirin

Hitting someone that is Co-operating with your casting is a little different than hitting a mob that will stop to cast spells at random, and if you want to say "Just shoot when he stops to cast then" You first need to get to the right distance, then shoot that high delay ranged weapon at him before he gets done and takes off again.

It doesnt even make sense in terms of how a gun or crossbow or bow works in RL. If you shoot someone with a gun at point blank it is going to be very accurate but in Final Fantasy its gonna have horrible accuracy and damage.

Yes, and at 30 paces taking 10 seconds to aim a gun missing a stationairy target is retarded for someone who is supposed to have high marksmanship, and being unable to even aim and fire a gun from beyond that range is even worse. The "works like in RL now" arguement is terrible, it makes no sense.

--------------------------------------

The biggest thing ranger lost in the nerf was accuracy. Yes, if you stand at the right distance, click your heels together 3 times, and say a prayer for world peace, you can still do the same damage per shot when you hit. However, in those circumstances, accuracy is noticeably down from before the patch while wearing the same gear, and TP gain from melee is lost. This balances out ranger in the area that they were overpowered vs other melee how? (ultra high level mobs)

When I heard they were going to change ranger to balance it with other melee, I didn't think it would be anything too bad, I figured they would make ranged attacks vary in damage the way melee attacks do, and lower damage vs ultra high level mobs. That would have been balance. What the nerf did was not balance.

 

[Theorist]

There are other ways to get silver ingots besides synthing them. Desynth of silver rings/earrings (NPC in jeuno, always open, always the same price)

Yeah, desynthing adds another 60-90 minutes onto the time it takes me to make my own bullets - all to save about 40k. Worth it? Questionable.

The biggest thing ranger lost in the nerf was accuracy. Yes, if you stand at the right distance, click your heels together 3 times, and say a prayer for world peace, you can still do the same damage per shot when you hit. However, in those circumstances, accuracy is noticeably down from before the patch while wearing the same gear, and TP gain from melee is lost. This balances out ranger in the area that they were overpowered vs other melee how? (ultra high level mobs)

When I heard they were going to change ranger to balance it with other melee, I didn't think it would be anything too bad, I figured they would make ranged attacks vary in damage the way melee attacks do, and lower damage vs ultra high level mobs. That would have been balance. What the nerf did was not balance.

Agreed, RACC is a bitch. I partial static with a BRD and most of the time I will refuse to start a skillchain without Hunter's Prelude. DMG is fine, but fix the goddamn RACC. Who cares if RNG can do a 1k+ Slug Shot with a 800+ Barrage? As much as I fucking miss, I am inline or worse than other DD jobs. No, Slug Shot is not a multihit WS. If we miss, we miss it all baby. I am only missing a possible +5 RACC off of PCC. With Hunter's Prelude, standing in the sweet spot while munching on Squid Sushi +1, I miss 15% of my Slug Shots. But but wait, it gets worse! Squid Sushi +1 SUCKS the damage right out of me. Yellow Curry adds 20-30% to my ranged damage but it also increases my miss rate by 10%. So all this high damage Slugs and stuff is an illusion... it's weighed down by an extremely high miss rate (with all-out HQ gear and every RACC buff the game has). Yeah, I realize I got dmg in my sig, but really it's just a throwback to the good old days.

I too miss the melee range for extra TP. And it's not like more TP added dmg, it DOESN'T. It adds RACC!!!!!!!!! And with the TP nerf, it worsened RACC AGAIN because there is no fucking way we can get more than 150% TP by the time any other DD worth his salt has 100%.

And if the rumor is true, RNG have a much better chance of landing Slug Shot at 150% TP post-nerf. That would be fine, AT OUR OLD RATE. But now we are hard pressed to keep up with a good dual wielder and in some instances, other DDs have to wait on me... that's rich... >.> I can't use Barrage to add TP because I need it for when I miss my Slug Shot, I can hammer Barrage and get my TP back up so I can try again.

SE did a hack job on RNG. Nuff said. What they need to do is come back around and balance it by paying special attention to accuracy. The DMG nerf due to distance is MORE than enough to persuade a RNG to find the sweet spot. Don't kill our TP and DPS further by making us miss more on a 500+ delay weapon and standing outside of melee range...

 

[Stigmatas]

err as for the debuffs....whatever you fight in any exp party or such....should have those defuffs....thats normal...also let another RNG try to go do that kind of damage...with any debuffs you wish....just no BRD two hour because thats cheating!


If the mobs arent debuffed....um then something else is the problem..


oh yes as for your doubting of my pre-nerf damage! Those pants are from Kurrea.....i think he was put into the game after Nerf...i quit for 3 months, then cameback about a month and a half now i believe.


As for the SC issue, its not that hard really, just walk up after you Sidewinder(i have no other WS!) I can SC with Unphazed just fine!

never doubted anything. just trying to mimic.
not all the people make sure that DD's can do the most dmg. por ejemplo warriors and rng getting ballad

i dont know enough people to get kurrea i'm sorry
ill try more, havent really tried exping after patch.. only 2 kirin fights.

 

[Stigmatas]

i'd like to thank stouter for putting into words what i did not. /nod

 

[Stouter]

Yeah, desynthing adds another 60-90 minutes onto the time it takes me to make my own bullets - all to save about 40k. Worth it? Questionable.

When you figure in travel time to bastok, and the potential wait for a decent price of silver ore, and the fact that there will often be competition when it hits that price and you'll be lucky to walk away with 3 stacks of ingots, yeah I'd say desynthing is worth it. In an hour of desynthing I can get 4 stacks of ingots for around 80k, on average. There's also the time waiting to make another purchase from the guild, it takes about as long to buy 4 ores as it does to synth them.

 

[Theorist]

When you figure in travel time to bastok, and the potential wait for a decent price of silver ore, and the fact that there will often be competition when it hits that price and you'll be lucky to walk away with 3 stacks of ingots, yeah I'd say desynthing is worth it. In an hour of desynthing I can get 4 stacks of ingots for around 80k, on average. There's also the time waiting to make another purchase from the guild, it takes about as long to buy 4 ores as it does to synth them.

Oh yeah, desynthing trumps synthing your own silver ingots - by far. What I'm saying is, will the money saved actually add up to something meaningful, or would my time be better spent farming for that hour it takes to desynth.

If Silver Ingots are under 35k, I buy them. I can make damn near 100k/hour farming, so I need to justify how much I will save by spending the extra time desynthing.

 

[Elemmire]

It's shows that you don't have an end game rng, the need for acc for rng is higher now than for melee, and we have 4 accuracy bonus traits.

I was talking more toward melee XD not RNGs. Atleast as I have noticed the need for a melee to have a ton of Acc gear + acc food isn't needed. As for RNG the only thing I really know is that most of the time they focus on STR end game (or atleast so I was told) that and they spend a lot of gil when they go out x.x

 

[hellstorm]

I was talking more toward melee XD not RNGs. Atleast as I have noticed the need for a melee to have a ton of Acc gear + acc food isn't needed. As for RNG the only thing I really know is that most of the time they focus on STR end game (or atleast so I was told) that and they spend a lot of gil when they go out x.x

this is what ive seen as well str str str.

 

[hellstorm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellstorm
the nerf was needed to balance to melee deal with it, dont whine.

Balance would be fine with me, but what happened was way beyond balace. And damage, why does everyone look at the one big ws? Yes, Jonas can do 2k+ damage ws with warcry/berserk/double minuet/damage food/Dia II/choke/100M worth of gear to a VT mob at 75. Can't all melee? War/nin and Mnk/war could out DoT rng BEFORE the nerf in exp, the only difference was their damage on the ultra high level mobs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellstorm
skillz rng know about timing yes kirin run around but he run in a prettey set pattern around and around if a whm/smn can stick blink on a tank while he is running you should have no trouble hitting kirin

Hitting someone that is Co-operating with your casting is a little different than hitting a mob that will stop to cast spells at random, and if you want to say "Just shoot when he stops to cast then" You first need to get to the right distance, then shoot that high delay ranged weapon at him before he gets done and takes off again.

this is true, but they did incrible amount of dmg before nerf and they still do pertty good amount dmg now. Was the nerf perfect? NO
Before nerf all you here was let's find rng, rng do great dmg. Rng was almost a must have in party next to tank and healer so much that other dd where left looking for group long time. Im sure sooner or later they will adjust the acc to help rng just like they are doing to drg next update. The nerf was not ment to be like and there are still many great thing rng can do. <honestly i think ranger should get scan to tell how much hp the mob and mob exact lvl and weakness.> Rng just got to deal with there penalty and they will get there day to shine. Seem se has been taking a intrest in there customers lately so maybe soon then the drg saw there results

 

[Foofighter]

I have to agree with Jonas on the Rng damage. I have yet to run into any melee that can outdamage me per hit or DoT. I know one warrior that comes close and he is pimped out bigtime. A Drk can come close on sc with stacking all their shit and sata. The nerf affected rng accuracy more so than damage on exp. mobs. On Kirin and Gods I still do good damage it just took some practice and figuring out the right gear setups(and definately /war on Kirin).
It is more fun post-nerf because you have to change your gear and weapons accordingly to the mobs. I love to use my hellfire, but some mobs you have to use holy bolts because the light damage is so high(and I get get about +45mind from my gear). Also, there is a wider variety of food you can use now. R.ACC caps at 95% now and in the damage sweet spot it is declined - most of the time Rngs will go with r.acc food when they cannot increase their r.acc % against a mob anyway. On VT or IT (golemns) exp. mobs Rngs should only use +r.att food.

Jonas lets go cannon my buffer is gone!

 

[Stigmatas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellstorm
the nerf was needed to balance to melee deal with it, dont whine.

Balance would be fine with me, but what happened was way beyond balace. And damage, why does everyone look at the one big ws? Yes, Jonas can do 2k+ damage ws with warcry/berserk/double minuet/damage food/Dia II/choke/100M worth of gear to a VT mob at 75. Can't all melee? War/nin and Mnk/war could out DoT rng BEFORE the nerf in exp, the only difference was their damage on the ultra high level mobs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellstorm
skillz rng know about timing yes kirin run around but he run in a prettey set pattern around and around if a whm/smn can stick blink on a tank while he is running you should have no trouble hitting kirin

Hitting someone that is Co-operating with your casting is a little different than hitting a mob that will stop to cast spells at random, and if you want to say "Just shoot when he stops to cast then" You first need to get to the right distance, then shoot that high delay ranged weapon at him before he gets done and takes off again.

this is true, but they did incrible amount of dmg before nerf and they still do pertty good amount dmg now. Was the nerf perfect? NO
Before nerf all you here was let's find rng, rng do great dmg. Rng was almost a must have in party next to tank and healer so much that other dd where left looking for group long time. Im sure sooner or later they will adjust the acc to help rng just like they are doing to drg next update. The nerf was not ment to be like and there are still many great thing rng can do. <honestly i think ranger should get scan to tell how much hp the mob and mob exact lvl and weakness.> Rng just got to deal with there penalty and they will get there day to shine. Seem se has been taking a intrest in there customers lately so maybe soon then the drg saw there results

please dont think i'm flaming you because i'm not..

But this sentence... "here was let's find rng, rng do great dmg. Rng was almost a must have in party next to tank and healer so much that other dd where left looking for group long time."

make me think what i have thought for a long time, people were jealous of RNG because they couldnt do the same dmg.

i see you live in FL is english your first language?

i've seen PT's disband because they didnt have blms.. but you know what i dont want SE to nerf blms. Some PT's wont even start if theres not a RDM or BRD.

I believe everyone has their STR and weaknesses.

Does that mean, SE should give mages more MP per tick so that RDM wont be needed anymore? or make nin spells so that they do 200 dmg and RDM to get magic attack bonuses so we dont need BLM's?

OR lets just make SMN's the gods they should of been and make their spells and abilities more accurate and higher dmg base.

so instead of bringing others down.. why dont we ask for them to raise up the skills of others.

i might be the only one here to say this.. i miss DRGs doing the dmg they did.. 2-3 penta thrust a fight.. thats what drgs did.. and to see someone take more dmg than me prepatch a fight who wasnt the tank or a blm.. thats was damn cool.

Lets not be crabs in a barrel.

 

[Reality]

yes, rangers can complain about the nerf

people fail to understand the excuse "We pay to do damage, so we should be able to do the MOST damage", they confuse that with "We CHOOSE to pay to do damage"

see, that's where the misunderstanding lies

Standard melees can't use the excuse "oh yea? well i have haub +1, flame ring, sniper+1, juggernautz my gear costs teh gilz too!!! 1", because RNG's can/will spend just as much or more in their own equipment as any other melee

but those melees DONT have to spend money to do damage, their damage is free, RNG on the other hand has no other choice than to spend money to do damage, that is the only way for them to properly do their job

the way RNG was designed, it SHOULD be the highest damaging job in the game, there was absolutely no reason to nerf RNG

if SE was so angry that everyone was flocking to RNG as the new 'cool' job class, maybe if they had strengthened the other classes, they would be more popular?

so tired of SE's hardon for MNK/SAM/BLM, its ridiculous

 

[Reality]

also, it isn't only the DISTANCE nonsense that caused such an uproar amongst most rangers, its the fact that our accuracy now seems to be independant of our equipment/food, based on where we're standing

i've seen threads where 75 RNG's actually repeatedly miss mobs that are 60-70 levels lower than they are, just because they're not standing in the proper spot

THAT is ridiculous, and should not have been part of this 'change'

 

[Dowzer]

Did you guys know that THF could Sneak Attack from nearly anywhere before?

This was a really great move for THF, SE totally screwed them over.

Nowadays, all you here is THFs bitching and moaning about someone fucking up their SATA.

That never used to happen.

SATA was so easy, before NA release...Apparently:

THF could SATA without Hide, even if the monster is facing them.
Sneak attack never had to be "From Behind", they could Sneak Attack from ANYWHERE @_@
Even if the line up went: THF>>>WAR<<<Monster<<<WAR
This was a very popular strat for SATA onto the Tank and it really let THF control the hate.

Too bad it was nerfed.

Apparently this was nerfed before FFXI was even released on NA PC.


Oh sht, we're talking about rng nerf, woops my bad

 

[hellstorm]

please dont think i'm flaming you because i'm not..

But this sentence... "here was let's find rng, rng do great dmg. Rng was almost a must have in party next to tank and healer so much that other dd where left looking for group long time."

make me think what i have thought for a long time, people were jealous of RNG because they couldnt do the same dmg.

i see you live in FL is english your first language?

i've seen PT's disband because they didnt have blms.. but you know what i dont want SE to nerf blms. Some PT's wont even start if theres not a RDM or BRD.

I believe everyone has their STR and weaknesses.

Does that mean, SE should give mages more MP per tick so that RDM wont be needed anymore? or make nin spells so that they do 200 dmg and RDM to get magic attack bonuses so we dont need BLM's?

OR lets just make SMN's the gods they should of been and make their spells and abilities more accurate and higher dmg base.

so instead of bringing others down.. why dont we ask for them to raise up the skills of others.

i might be the only one here to say this.. i miss DRGs doing the dmg they did.. 2-3 penta thrust a fight.. thats what drgs did.. and to see someone take more dmg than me prepatch a fight who wasnt the tank or a blm.. thats was damn cool.

Lets not be crabs in a barrel.

there a big diffents though there only 2 support char
and 3 healer class char
but there are 7 diffent dd classes
[/b]7
that mean you have 7 type of jobs lfg and rng doing as much dmg as they where was being piced first. As for the blm comment they do need anouther spell class which will I hope come out this next expansion. geomage is somthing like this and blu might be a sub for if there no blm to. The system not perfected but they are atlest trying to fixed faults when they can. In the beta version rdm had dia and bio III and flash but later took them away.