Crafter's Corner Board

Valoran

Valoran

Kung Fu Hustler
Adventurer
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
740
Location
Chicago
I hate this board. Ever since it appeared, everyone started crafting, and tons of people jumped into woodworking. They're inflating the prices on consumables and making it hard to find skillup ingredients.

I don't mind a little competition, but get everyone and their dog out of the damn craft! I don't want to have to freaking unionize to make profit.

Also, on a semi-serious, pleading note, DO NOT TRY TO LEVEL A CRAFT HALF-ASSEDLY!!! WOODWORKING IS NOT EASY JUST BECAUSE IT ISN'T CLOTHCRAFT!!! YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK AT THIS TO GET GOOD AT IT!

You think you just blow gil at it til 100 and then someone gives you an HQ elemental staff whenever you want it? ASFLGJASDFUAM!!!!

Hugs and kisses,
Valoran
 
I will take this flame as a compliment. Glad there are areas of QCDN that are actually useful. ;)
 
>.> my ww is 72 for personal reasons. My bad..
 
That's why I never liked the idea of crafting, I refused to level any craft whatsoever, got Clothcraft to lvl 40 and stopped, and I did it in the course of a year, found my money maker, most items aren't profitable unless you HQ them, and the very good stuff is VERY hard to HQ.
 
Updated my sig, Giga gained 2 levels at Woodworking, YAY! Oh wait, I'm not suppose to level wood...

Give it some time, it will pass. People tend to jump on something when they hear good things have happened to others. Seriously, how many people start choc digging after seeing Cub's results with ores? How many stopped after 50 stacks of greens? I'm sure it's something like 150 and 150 for both answers.

However, you do realize that logically, there will eventually be more and more high level crafters. That's just the way it is. There will be more competition, price will change (at this point, with the way this economy is behaving, I have no idea HOW they will change, seriously), material will be harder to get, etc. Saying to people to stop levleing a craft cause there's already people in it is like saying to stop level your job since there is already enough people in Sky or at Behemoth's camp....

What will most likely happen with crafting is that some high level will quit the game, having their monopoly suddenly taken away from them and being so used to it they will have a hard time adjust. Then others will have a hard time cause they leveled a craft with farming IGE or PL with other means, without taking the time to study their craft. Eventually, the more competition there will be, the more competent crafters will have an edge. Things always balance out over time, you just have to make sure you're prepared for it.

Anyway, all in all blamming the Crafter Board is... well sorry to say but stupid. People play, level, level crafts, deal with it.
 
I can never find a staff under level 30 for my SMN so I'm stuck using wands. :-(
 
Crafting has been becoming more of a hobby for a long while. A very expensive hobby at that.
 
Veresko said:
Updated my sig, Giga gained 2 levels at Woodworking, YAY! Oh wait, I'm not suppose to level wood...

Give it some time, it will pass. People tend to jump on something when they hear good things have happened to others. Seriously, how many people start choc digging after seeing Cub's results with ores? How many stopped after 50 stacks of greens? I'm sure it's something like 150 and 150 for both answers.

However, you do realize that logically, there will eventually be more and more high level crafters. That's just the way it is. There will be more competition, price will change (at this point, with the way this economy is behaving, I have no idea HOW they will change, seriously), material will be harder to get, etc. Saying to people to stop levleing a craft cause there's already people in it is like saying to stop level your job since there is already enough people in Sky or at Behemoth's camp....

What will most likely happen with crafting is that some high level will quit the game, having their monopoly suddenly taken away from them and being so used to it they will have a hard time adjust. Then others will have a hard time cause they leveled a craft with farming IGE or PL with other means, without taking the time to study their craft. Eventually, the more competition there will be, the more competent crafters will have an edge. Things always balance out over time, you just have to make sure you're prepared for it.

Anyway, all in all blamming the Crafter Board is... well sorry to say but stupid. People play, level, level crafts, deal with it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, the post was half tongue-in-cheek. I'm not really blaming the board, but I seriously do want to flame people who just somehow "acquire" a few million gil and throw it at a craft.

For legitimate crafters, it's like trying to fly a 737 through a tornado with all their "acquired" gil flying around, sucking up materials and slamming shoddy products into the AH walls at viciously undercut prices.

On the plus side, when I had more time for it, I could watch the AH closely, identify people who had "acquired" gil that they were parting with rather easily, and log > HQ the lumbers they were after. Waiting for a gil "acquirer" to get to the cabinet/commode phase became a pasttime.

Sadly, I no longer have time to do that, so I can't take full advantage of their loose gil, and the markets on some normal things have gotten a bit rough (aren't you ninjas upset that shihei got hiked like 3k a month or so back? Or do you all just make your own?).
 
Crafting is just getting bigger and bigger, espically these days... and there just gonna get bigger.... Lets not forget, this game is only a few years old.... think down the lines when everyones skilled up in crafting. Although, i just craft with cooking and Alchemy to benefit myself, but i'm thinking of leveling Fishing sub for my cooking to get some nice gil! :D
 
You know, that bugs me a little... This isn't a slam or anything, but why is it that whenever someone PLs through a craft, people feel the need to insinuate that they must have bought gil? It somehow seems particularly bizarre when people who have themselves been accused of it turn around and accuse others, which has happened occasionally. Not everyone makes their money the same way you do, not every source of income is as easily tracked as you would like, and not everyone who pushes hard to level a craft buys gil. And there are a lot of people out there who simply have more money than time/sense.

That having been said, I've never pushed all that hard to level a craft thus far. Though I have occasionally pushed the price on Darksteel Ore up a few k/chunk.
 
Veresko was saying people who PL a craft are in a gil sink because they dont know the best ways to make money with their craft, not necessarily that they buy gil, they may just have a high lvl job that is able to get gil easy and then sink it all into a craft assuming that money will just fly at their face or something.
 
It's also possible they PL a craft for reasons other than as a source of income. I'm plowing my way through WW so I can repair my Lu Shang.
 
I hear ya Val. Thats exactly why Im getting out of WW(hence the advice thread on Crafters Corner). So many people flooding it. Im actually getting out of crafting for a while.... watching the prices plummet angers me too much.
 
Mattaru said:
Veresko was saying people who PL a craft are in a gil sink because they dont know the best ways to make money with their craft, not necessarily that they buy gil, they may just have a high lvl job that is able to get gil easy and then sink it all into a craft assuming that money will just fly at their face or something.
Click to expand...

Ahem, who said anything about gilbuyers? >.>

Seriously, though, I know that's not what Veresko meant. The gilbuyer thing is my flame.

And yeah, fishermen hold an exempt place in my heart, Hali, since I know a guy who just got his Lu Shang's anyhow. I also sort of feel like if they're patient enough to get a Lu Shang's, they'll probably be patient enough to let things sell and not screw up prices too much.

As for high-levels sinking gear into a craft . . . I do feel like that's kind of inappropriate; for one thing, it's pretty well established that you can't craft just by sinking gil in. High level players should know that, by experience or by knowing crafters. When they choose to go about becoming a crafter by throwing gil at it, they're screwing up the market.

It's also sort of like leveling a new job. You can't be a good tank or nuker without understanding hate; you can't be a good crafter without understanding markets. When people powercraft, they do themselves the exact same disservice as when people get a job powerleveled: they don't learn it.

If you can get money that easily; why craft? If it's just to get cool signed items, I ask this: isn't half the coolness the fact that it comes from someone who worked hard enough to get a craft up to a high skill level? If it's to explore a new side of the game, why not do it properly (that is, not just throw infinite gil at it and see what happens).

Anyway, hope that clears up my position a bit. I'm sure a number of the new crafters will drop off when they see how difficult it is and decide it's not for them. I don't have anything against anyone with a real interest in learning the crafting side of the game.
 
Just wanna point out that I was not targeting or accusing anyone with reference to farming IGE. What I meant was people DO PL craft and the reality is that some already have gils to invest and SOME buy gils to do it, expecting to make it back in a few days once they are level 50....

Just like it's no use denying that eventually, there will be more and more high level crafters, that's just the way things go. Especially the mid-market if you wish, will be really crowded. I mean level 40-60. One of the reason is with more people reaching 90-100 in their main craft, they will want their sub leveled. What will hurt is those 90+ crafters can have the gil to PL their way, leaving first time leveler with a spoiled market. The other reason is that a LOT of people who start crafting expect to make money fast. Then they realize they are'nt and it gets more and more expensive. Then 50+ skillups becomes rarer. This all combined just makes 75-80% of the people leveling, quit around those levels.

Unfortunately, there is'nt much that can be done about it, that's just how things are. The game is a virtual world that evolves and an economy system that also evolves, for the better AND worst (you never have one or another, always have both, just make sure you pick the better part :) ).

Also, it's always a question of balance. With people getting higher in crafts, the need to farm becomes smaller, since they can now make gils with other means. So material becomes rarer, often out of stock. Therefore, the prices on the farmed items will raise. Of course, that will make the final product's prices raise to, but it will also make some players think about farming again, since now they can make more money out of it /hour. So finally you have less crafter, more farmers, more stocks, bit lower prices, etc. The cycle is complete and starts over again.

You can say the same thing if you look at it the other way around. More people can now make XYZ item, XYZ item is often over-stocked, price of XYZ item goes down, profit margin reduces. Then a number of crafter stop making item XYZ and either move to other items or other means of making gils like farming. Eventually the stock lessens, price go back up, people start making it again. Full cycle.
 
Your an selfish ass other people need to make gil too, stop bitching and lvl goldsmithing then
 
For the record, yes, my post was directed towards Valoran's second post. :D

Anyway, back on track. I've noticed that an awful lot of people just don't care what something costs, they've already got enough money to buy it and the potential loss doesn't concern them. So dropping 40 million on a piece of gear, or pumping 12 million into a craft in a week isn't a huge deal. And since they're more concerned about their time than their money, why not just bone over the other crafters and/or hike the AH price on something because they don't feel like waiting for a more reasonable seller...

That's what I mostly notice in crafting, not someone throwing money at it in random fashion, but very focused fashion. Taking the same path as most people, but doing it in a truly obnoxious fashion, hiking material prices and dropping product prices all in an attempt to just get it done QUICKLY.

And yeah, it sucks.
 
I think that SE could fix this very easily. I'll give an example.

--current system--
1) Buyer sees Sneak Oils for 30k/stack.
2) Buyer doesn't like the price.
3) Buyer chokes the cost anyways.
4) Seller sees another sale of Sneak Oils for 30k/stack and puts another stack up for the same price.

--proposed system--
1) Buyer sees 30k/stack sneak oils, which he needs for Sky
2) Buyer doesn't like the price, so he rates the price of Sneak Oils down.
3) Buyer gets the 30k/stack sneak oils, as it's the only thing available.
4) Seller sees that people don't like the cost, so he puts his next batch up for 500g less than before.

--proposed system example 2--
1) Buyer sees 30k/stack sneak oils, which he needs for Sky
2) Buyer doesn't like the price, so he rates the price of Sneak Oils down.
3) Buyer gets the 30k/stack sneak oils, as it's the only thing available.
4) Seller sees that people don't like the cost, but he also runs his own numbers and sees that he's almost breaking even. He rates up the price for Sneak Oils, and sells the next batch for 30k.

It might mean very little within a single day, but it's easy to implement on the current system. Simple measures can be added too, like only being able to rate an item once an hour, and the same item only once per day. A little change like this can make a big difference... and may ultimately lead to a true supply<>demand feedback system, which will help the economy a lot.
 
Rating a price down and paying full regardless won't help much. When people list Water IV for 900k, they know full well the buyer doesn't really want to pay that much for a scroll, but they know people will pay it. Same with Shihei and consumables too. Doesn't matter if the buyer is happy with the price. It only matters if you have the buyer over a barrel and list prices s/he can't refuse. Rating down and still paying, or rating up and still selling at loss or whatever, only shows that the rater/buyer (if both are visable in the history) is foolish. It says "I don't think X item is worth this price, but that shouldn't bother you in the slightest, since you're getting your gil anyway".
 
Possible, but I don't think it would have much actual effect in the long run. Supply<>Demand doesn't require actual feedback to work.

I'm just glad nobody has set up a commodities market in the game yet.
 
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