Craventigress

[Icewolf]

I believe this is my first flame...but just to save you all alot of trouble, never invite craventigress to your pt. I had a bad experience with her around level 30-40, and she was invited to my pt (lvl 58-60pt) and instead of leaving I decided i'd give her another go.

She was 59 pld, and so I thought, well since we gotta pld I can probably get away with subbing war, and just watch my hate (me being the rng). Were camping lesser colibri. For some reason she is tanking in SH to start out...I just figured its better than her tanking in a V cloak.

Every time I would pull a mob, it would hit me AT LEAST three times...sometimes it would take me to half health before she decided to voke. And I know what your thinking, "well yeah, your subbing war", but right after that pt I was with a nin that voked before I got hit once, its not liking im pulling with it staring me in the face.

Eventually I just asked her to start voke pulling, if the colibri were right on top of us, which generally they were. But that was a mistake too I guess, she would rest to full mp after each fight.

And yes, she was the one that went drg/mnk up to lvl 60. And dont get me started on the annoying emotes she makes. Anyway, it'll be in your best interest to never invite her.

 

[Jinxy]

Well I guess thats what ya get for assuming. IMO if your puller, sub nin. Colibris run at the pace of FLEE, how the heck did you even begin to think you were not going to get hit while pulling. Nice to see you flame others for your shortcomings and assumptions. Also your puller, don't pass that responsiblity on to the tank because you are afraid of getting hit.

 

[Makelith]

Isn't the lvl 60 pld AF the body? So SH would be the best body piece for tanking in. I had a JP pld once who was even more effective in a V.cloak and just alternated between the two.

Unless i'm missing some great piece of gear?

 

[Icewolf]

Well I guess thats what ya get for assuming. IMO if your puller, sub nin. Colibris run at the pace of FLEE, how the heck did you even begin to think you were not going to get hit while pulling. Nice to see you flame others for your shortcomings and assumptions. Also your puller, don't pass that responsiblity on to the tank because you are afraid of getting hit.

You obviously didnt read the part where I was pulling in the next party without getting hit, the mobs are not far from the pt in these area's. When you pull at maximum distance you should not be hit at all, please read next time.

 

[Rappa]

Not nearly enough info in this topic to really validate this flame. plds use mp to hold hate, so yes they have to rest. You can't pull and tank nonstop on pld or else you have no shot at doing your job. Unless there's a rdm and brd both keeping the pld double refreshed there's nothing wrong with slowing down pulls for mp.

As for taking hits... again, plds have to rest for mp. Of course it's going to take longer for a pld to stand up and voke than it is for a nin to voke because they don't have to rest. So yeah, what's the problem here again? You chose to sub war so you're the one being an mp sponge for no particular reason.

 

[Zerayla]

These are the pieces of gear a PLD can wear from 50-60:

vs

Personally, I think the Parade Cuirass is the best out of all the options. Its a pain in the butt to get though sometimes. A SH wouldn't be that bad of an option, but evasion isn't important for a PLD because we're meant to take hits, so the more important thing is to "beef up" the VIT and DEF on armor as opposed to evasion. The accuracy is ok, but personally I'd go with more VIT and DEF because the rest of my gear is going to be focused on this so a little boost in ACC isn't going to be that noticeable and isn't as important, assuming that i'm keeping hate as a PLD should be doing. SH can work, but wouldn't be my choice for body piece.

The problem I do see however is that you say it took her forever to voke. A PLD should be voking every 30 seconds, because thats the recast for the ability and at that lvl, she should hopefully understand that. It sounds more like she joined the party hoping to be a DD than an actual tank.

Question to the OP: Did you ask her to provoke more often or try to get her to do better in the party by giving her suggestions?

 

[Jinxy]

You obviously didnt read the part where I was pulling in the next party without getting hit, the mobs are not far from the pt in these area's. When you pull at maximum distance you should not be hit at all, please read next time.

I read it, understood what you meant...but didn't agree. And yes you can get hit while pulling from "maximum distance" even with shadows on. I have had more than one colibri eat all 3 shadows and take me to half hp b4 getting to camp...they are fast sob's. Rappa's above post explained pretty good why the difference in pt's and you getting hit to not getting hit.

I like craventigress, have pt'ed with her as me being puller while hunting colibris and she did just fine on more than one occasion.

 

[Kagemusha]

Not nearly enough info in this topic to really validate this flame. plds use mp to hold hate, so yes they have to rest. You can't pull and tank nonstop on pld or else you have no shot at doing your job. Unless there's a rdm and brd both keeping the pld double refreshed there's nothing wrong with slowing down pulls for mp.

As for taking hits... again, plds have to rest for mp. Of course it's going to take longer for a pld to stand up and voke than it is for a nin to voke because they don't have to rest. So yeah, what's the problem here again? You chose to sub war so you're the one being an mp sponge for no particular reason.

Well, as a PLD, when you see the puller use his pull macro, you should really stand up at that point, that way you can voke the second he gets there so to avoid the puller taking damage.

Isn't the lvl 60 pld AF the body? So SH would be the best body piece for tanking in. I had a JP pld once who was even more effective in a V.cloak and just alternated between the two.

Unless i'm missing some great piece of gear?

PLDs don't tank with evasion, they tank with vitality and defense. +10 evasion is not going to make a big difference with PLDs naturally low evasion skill, and the accuracy isn't going to make much of a difference either. I used I.M. Cuirass from 50 to 60, then I switched to PLD AF body. It has the same defense as SH, and it adds +1 VIT. Definetly the better choice.

Edit: Damn you zer! You beat me to it ; ;

 

[Rappa]

Well, as a PLD, when you see the puller use his pull macro, you should really stand up at that point, that way you can voke the second he gets there so to avoid the puller taking damage.

Right, and I agree. But again like I said, there isn't enough info in the OP to know if this is the pld's fault or not. Did he even have a pull macro? etc

 

[Kagemusha]

I'm standing in Pashhow right now waiting for the next ballista, and wow she has some pretty gimp gear. She's level 60 with no AF legs or body, level 42 AF sword, signal pearl, Esquire's Earring (you know, the one that has +5 HP latent when you sub PLD), and no ammo slot(get a bibiki seashell, lazy bastard!).

 

[Nycon]

Not nearly enough info in this topic to really validate this flame. plds use mp to hold hate, so yes they have to rest. You can't pull and tank nonstop on pld or else you have no shot at doing your job.

I hardly never have to rest for MP on PLD. As long as you have one refresher in the pt, there should be no stopping in ToAU. With auto refresh, parade gorget, sanction refresh, rdm/brd refresh, there is no need to rest unless the PLD was horrible and wasted most of her MP on over curing or using lolholy. My 2 cents.

 

[Makelith]

PLDs don't tank with evasion, they tank with vitality and defense. +10 evasion is not going to make a big difference with PLDs naturally low evasion skill, and the accuracy isn't going to make much of a difference either. I used I.M. Cuirass from 50 to 60, then I switched to PLD AF body. It has the same defense as SH, and it adds +1 VIT. Definetly the better choice.

I understand how Pld works, but given those options that zer posted, there weren't any that totally stood out over the SH. Save for the Parade Curiass, and if thats your first job to 60, chances are you won't have the greatest access to CoP areas to get the subligar.

They have the same def, but the SH has hp+15. At that level i don't think +1 vit is necessarily better. The Vit curve there is probably around when you want to start steering away from VIt+ gear and go for more HP+.

I'm not saying that the I.M. curiass isn't any good, it is what i wore on my pld, just that if you wanna go overkill on the job, in my mind the SH is better.

 

[Icewolf]

Yes we did give her suggestions. And yes, I do have a pull macro...lol. Sometimes I would shadowbind the mob right beside her, and she would still not voke, it would become unbound and go strait for me. Sometimes she would say "my provoke macro isn't up" But last I checked, paladins have flash...which will easily get the job done until voke is ready.

I dont know what more info you want, when your struggling to get a chain 5 on colibri's as a 59-60 pt (VT mobs), there is something wrong. She had refresh on at all times, so why is she resting?

Her problem wasn't so much the gear she was wearing, but there are better pieces out there.

 

[Nycon]

I'm standing in Pashhow right now waiting for the next ballista, and wow she has some pretty gimp gear. She's level 60 with no AF legs or body, level 42 AF sword, signal pearl, Esquire's Earring (you know, the one that has +5 HP latent when you sub PLD), and no ammo slot(get a bibiki seashell, lazy bastard!).

WOW, that is gimp! lmao. At least get your AF, wtf. Signal pearl???? :shok:

 

[Kagemusha]

I understand how Pld works, but given those options that zer posted, there weren't any that totally stood out over the SH. Save for the Parade Curiass, and if thats your first job to 60, chances are you won't have the greatest access to CoP areas to get the subligar.

They have the same def, but the SH has hp+15. At that level i don't think +1 vit is necessarily better. The Vit curve there is probably around when you want to start steering away from VIt+ gear and go for more HP+.

I'm not saying that the I.M. curiass isn't any good, it is what i wore on my pld, just that if you wanna go overkill on the job, in my mind the SH is better.

PLD was my first job to 60, and I didn't feel like forking over 1 million just for a piece of armor that I wear for 1 level. I didn't even give SH a second thought when considering my armor choices.

I suppose you could go SH tanking, but for 1 level at the price that it is, it really isn't worth it.

 

[Makelith]

Just a couple last things.

First:

PLD was my first job to 60, and I didn't feel like forking over 1 million just for a piece of armor that I wear for 1 level. I didn't even give SH a second thought when considering my armor choices.

Which is why i said this.

I'm not saying that the I.M. curiass isn't any good, it is what i wore on my pld, just that if you wanna go overkill on the job, in my mind the SH is better.

Second:

I suppose you could go SH tanking, but for 1 level at the price that it is, it really isn't worth it.

You can wear SH at 57. That would be 3 levels you can wear it, not just 1.

 

[Jinxy]

I'm standing in Pashhow right now waiting for the next ballista, and wow she has some pretty gimp gear. She's level 60 with no AF legs or body, level 42 AF sword, signal pearl, Esquire's Earring (you know, the one that has +5 HP latent when you sub PLD), and no ammo slot(get a bibiki seashell, lazy bastard!).

I dont remember the flame pertaining to her not able to keep hate or being a mp sponge (that was Icewolf being the sponge), whats her armor have to do with it? Is that even her main armor? I don't see the need to flame this girl, all she did was not voke fast enough for mr.icicles. If we flamed every person who didn't have the best armor...well there would be lots of reading material. Cut the girl some slack, she did her job, kept hate and none died. Only person here not to do their job is the OP. He couldnt even bring the right sub or do his job and had to have the tank pull. Man I HATE hypocritical crybabies.

Like I said before, I have pt'ed with her numerous times and she has done good

 

[Icewolf]

I dont remember the flame pertaining to her not able to keep hate or being a mp sponge (that was Icewolf being the sponge), whats her armor have to do with it? Is that even her main armor? I don't see the need to flame this girl, all she did was not voke fast enough for mr.icicles. If we flamed every person who didn't have the best armor...well there would be lots of reading material. Cut the girl some slack, she did her job, kept hate and none died. Only person here not to do their job is the OP. He couldnt even bring the right sub or do his job and had to have the tank pull. Man I HATE hypocritical crybabies.

Like I said before, I have pt'ed with her numerous times and she has done good

Are you fucking retarded? This flame is about HOW SHE DIDNT DO HER FUCKING JOB. The only reason I was an MP sponge was because of her. And you know what I hate? People defending someone just because they are a friend, If a friend of mine was flamed, I'm not gunna sit here and lie telling people its false, just because he/she is a friend. How I'm a hypocrit I still dont understand.

 

[Areya]

okay, seeing as I was in this party(lvl 59 RDM),(I was backup healing, but our WHM kicked the bucket and d/c'd on us -.-) I have to agree

one of the worst pld ever.

okay, craven was lvl 60, thus should have her af body (but did not), just to back up what icewolf was trying to say. Also, because Icewolf's pulls were pretty close to camp, shadows were definately not an issue. Yes, I do agree, /nin would have been better for pulling capabilities. But in this particular camp, not having blink doesen't really matter when most of your mobs aren't at a great distance from camp.

And so I watched, counting...

yes... counting


about 6 seconds, I swear craven was tabbing zero or using a mouse to find the next target, then again he/she might have been lagging. But if such is the case, then they should have mentioned this to the rest of the party. But nothing.

I have no tolerance for slow first vokes. Thus, this definately killed my mp, trying to heal my puller, and the tank. Of course I don't mind main healing in a party, I know it's my job in most setups. So for awhile I shrugged my shoulders and countinued to keep up with my mp. Converting every 10 minutes when needed. (not to mention that I was keeping the tank refreshed, but they STILL managed to have 36/206 mp at the end of a fight...which to be quite honest, baffled me.

What I failed to notice before, was the reason for me using so much mp. The pld, definately had no sense of hate control...I found myself curing other members more than the tank, which to be quite honest I find...sad.

please, do yourself a favor, don't invite this paladin...

 

[Svina]

I hardly never have to rest for MP on PLD. As long as you have one refresher in the pt, there should be no stopping in ToAU. With auto refresh, parade gorget, sanction refresh, rdm/brd refresh, there is no need to rest unless the PLD was horrible and wasted most of her MP on over curing or using lolholy. My 2 cents.

Pff, I can practically main heal with said buffs.