Curjos

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You know, it's a lot easier to criticize and tear something down than it is to create something. A good rule of thumb is to save your criticism unless you can and are willing to do better than the person you are criticizing. lolchocoboraising included.
 
Vandoura said:
I know is just a chocobo Raising theory guide, but Urat spend a lot of time working on it and try to help other to raise their chocobo better. Imagine yourself in the same shoes, and tell you that your work is useless, can't proof anything, won't work. How would you feel? adding insult to injury, editing someone hard work without the owner permission. Wouldn't you be pissed off if someone messed up your yr of works? Little things to you can be a really bigs things to other people, just like one person trash is another person treasure
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Ok I got a couple responses to what I said. I apologize for the way it sounded I did not mean to downplay his work and interest in chocobo raising. I was just trying to say he shouldn't let something that's hard to control (people trying to screw you) get him so worked. What I meant by it being small was it being a game and it not worth the trouble. Even if some of his theories aren't perfect I think its nice of him to take some time out to help others.
 
Neisan said:
Just because you've created something does not make it useful.
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True, but just because Stephen Colbert says it's ok to go edit the Wikipedia entry on Elephants doesn't automatically make it right, does it? Neither is, say, the numerous stub entries on any wiki-style compendium.

These are the key problems with user-generated content.

One person sees what they're writing as genuinely useful, another doesn't. The burden then, though, is to either prove in a neutral medium that the writer is false, or to deal with it and leave the writer's content alone.
 
Problem is resolved by page 3! Curjos admitted he could have done it in a better way, though that better way eluded him at the time, despite the fact his general feelings were still portrayed. *wonders how long this thread will continue now it's over*
 
Well, I am happy to see curjos has admitted the mistake, and hope the matter has been resolved. Hopefully we can move on now, and I'd enjoy seeing the stats of your bird.


I do not claim the conceppt of my theory is fact. Actually I state it is my personal opinion right at the start of it. I also take the time to mention all the other common theories right before.


Zephayra said:
The problem I have with your theory is that you completely ignore basic genetics.

You state that all colours are affected by how you raise them, and that black chocobos are completely random.

Now, I have not raised 100 birds, so I can't give percents. I have raised 4 birds, currently raising my 5th (Lord knows why!) and my two coloured birds have been involved in probably around 3 or so other people's breedings. In fact, in the past, when you first started raising chocobos, I gave you the card to my blue male StormStallion and I think my green female StarStorm.

I do, however, have been involved in observing horse breeding business and taken a few genetic classes in University. While I do not feel that SE is as complex as genes, I figure that would use the very basics of genetics to program into chocobo breeding.

All chocobos I have raise have been high strength/endurance. They all were fed vomp carrots and the plans I chose were walk every day, carrying packages, delivering packages, etc. I use this method of raising for every single bird. I have gotten top strength and endurance with this method. I kept their affection level 100%. According to your theory, I -should- have had atleast one red bird in the mix. I have had two yellows, one blue and one green.

To get my blue male - I bred two blue birds.
To get my green female - I bred my blue male to a green female I bought. I chose the Honeymoon card which increased the chances of the chocobo taking after the female.

I have given my cards to people who have wanted coloured chocobos. Each person I have given a card to has gotten the colour they wanted, by breeding it to a chocobo of the same colour, or by choosing a honeymoon card which increases the chance of it taking after a parent, specifically which of the birds has the colour they want.

I am currently raising another bird who's parents are both black. Both the eggs came from ISNMs, so there are no other colours involved. They are pure blacks. If my chocobo turns a different colour than black in 7 days, I will be very surprised.
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This post caught my attention ^_^

You say you have taken courses in genetics? I'd very much enjoy having a convorsation with a fellow breeder experienced in the real thing to get their opinion!

As per genetics, I in fact do take them into account =D

If you look, the color of parents influences color of children a good 30-40%! Green parents will very often present green offspring, but not always.

Thus the concept of simply green = green, red = red, and blue = blue, black is random.

Yet, how does one explain two blue parents breeding... a green offspring? I grew confused and experimented with about 25-30 adolescent birds, and came to believe that it was stats that effected color, not parents.

After curjos' findings, I realized my error, and then spent 3 months gathering data from breeders across the globe via email.

I quickly realized that color of parents DOES affect children color, but not only. There was definitly some other unknown variable/s effecting color. I then began to look for patterns, and began to find things...

#1 parents with similiar stats and high receptivity had warmer eggs

#2 colored parents much more often had colored children, not always same color, but colored nonetheless. Often black.

#3 The warmer egg chicks almost always had an entire 1 level lead on average chicks. This one really caught my attention!

There were other quirks, but these werer the major ones. I did some more testing.

First I bred two identicle stat birds 20 times in a row. Every one of them was top warmth egg. Then I bred oppisites, and they were all the coldest eggs.

I then bred two eggs at same time, one cold, one hot, on my mule and main. Did this process to adolescent stage a good 4 times. Every time, the warmer egg check's stats scended much more dramaticly then the colders. 3/4 of the warms had color, red and blue. Only 1/4 of the colds did, red.

So I began to form my theory. Stats AND lineage affected color! Thus, my hybrid theory.

To put it in horse terms, if you breed two racing horses, the offspring will be already highly geared towards racing, correct? But if the two parents are average joes, you can still get a race horse through training and work.

So thank you curjos, if it was't for your finding's I'd have never went and worked so hard at this. Sucks it wasn't something as important as finding the haste cap for armor, but whatever ^_^;
 
In Genetics there are dominant and recessive genes.

Each Chicken has 2 genes. Say Green was dominant and blue was recessive. You can have two chickens that are Green/blue. One gene comes from each parent, so you have a 25% chance of a green/green (which is green), a 50% chance of a green/blue (which is green, as green is dominant over blue) and a 25% chance of a blue/blue (which is blue).

So if both chickens are purebread green/green you'd always get green children, if both are green/random colour, you'll get a 25% chance of something else.

* (this is applying genetic traits to chocobo breeding theoretically. I'm not implying that this is how chocobo breeding actually works)
 
Urat said:
This post caught my attention ^_^

You say you have taken courses in genetics? I'd very much enjoy having a convorsation with a fellow breeder experienced in the real thing to get their opinion!

As per genetics, I in fact do take them into account =D

If you look, the color of parents influences color of children a good 30-40%! Green parents will very often present green offspring, but not always.

Thus the concept of simply green = green, red = red, and blue = blue, black is random.

Yet, how does one explain two blue parents breeding... a green offspring? I grew confused and experimented with about 25-30 adolescent birds, and came to believe that it was stats that effected color, not parents.

After curjos' findings, I realized my error, and then spent 3 months gathering data from breeders across the globe via email.

I quickly realized that color of parents DOES affect children color, but not only. There was definitly some other unknown variable/s effecting color. I then began to look for patterns, and began to find things...

#1 parents with similiar stats and high receptivity had warmer eggs

#2 colored parents much more often had colored children, not always same color, but colored nonetheless. Often black.

#3 The warmer egg chicks almost always had an entire 1 level lead on average chicks. This one really caught my attention!

There were other quirks, but these werer the major ones. I did some more testing.

First I bred two identicle stat birds 20 times in a row. Every one of them was top warmth egg. Then I bred oppisites, and they were all the coldest eggs.

I then bred two eggs at same time, one cold, one hot, on my mule and main. Did this process to adolescent stage a good 4 times. Every time, the warmer egg check's stats scended much more dramaticly then the colders. 3/4 of the warms had color, red and blue. Only 1/4 of the colds did, red.

So I began to form my theory. Stats AND lineage affected color! Thus, my hybrid theory.

To put it in horse terms, if you breed two racing horses, the offspring will be already highly geared towards racing, correct? But if the two parents are average joes, you can still get a race horse through training and work.

So thank you curjos, if it was't for your finding's I'd have never went and worked so hard at this. Sucks it wasn't something as important as finding the haste cap for armor, but whatever ^_^;
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Sorry for the derail -

While I know for sure that two average joe thoroughbreds could likely result in a good racing horse, if trained properly - but the genetic foundation of the horse must be suitable for racing as well. If you breed two horses, say the male has really big hindquarters and the female has dainty legs, you could end up getting an animal who is very bulky on top, but its legs would not be able to support the weight due to the mare's fine bone. This would cause this horse to probably become lame (horse world term for not being able to walk/run) and even if was trained by the best trainer in the world, it would not be a good race horse.

Off the topic of colour, but just for general knowledge that I am sure everyone knows - this is why horse breeders select specific animals to breed to, so they can get foals that result in the best foundation for the job they want the horse to do. They want animals with strong legs but a very light upper body so they can run faster on those legs, those are the traits they are looking for. In terms of chocobo breeding, albeit its in a video game, I want a blue chocobo, so I am going to choose a male and female who are blue, and who have grandparents who are blue, or both came from a bought/dropped egg who I would consider 'pure'.

If you breed two greens, and get a red, my assumption then would be that one of those greens had a red bird in its genetic background. I do believe eggs that came from either the mithra in Jeuno or as a drop, and not a bred bird are considered 'pure' because they would not have any other colour in they're make up. However, it is possible (and rather strange of them to do) for SE to decided to do a random thing where a green chocobo from a bought/dropped egg had a red parent in its genetic make up, resulting in a red bird being born to that chocobo.


Your theory says that the training influences how the bird's colour should come out. Does that mean for all the birds you bred and had a chick who's colour was not the same as either one of its parents had a corresponding personality to its colour? For example - all my chocobos were ill tempered, making it suitable for military use. SE's history of chocobo colours started that the Elvaan used Black Chocobos for their military. If this was the case, wouldn't the majority of birds raised with high strength and this personality result in a black bird more so than a random colour?

In going with that - I don't recall which bird colours correspond with temperment except that Blues are laid back, Blacks are military base and Red were more of the faster of the breed.
 
I'm not saying he should have edited it in the way he did. But if you are putting out a guide for others to use and it doesn't work you should be criticized, the part of the guide where it didn't work brought up with the author and ask them to edit their own work so it does not come off as fact, disclaimer or not. In my opinion, that is what should have happened, instead of this.
 
Neisan said:
I'm not saying he should have edited it in the way he did. But if you are putting out a guide for others to use and it doesn't work you should be criticized, the part of the guide where it didn't work brought up with the author and ask them to edit their own work so it does not come off as fact, disclaimer or not. In my opinion, that is what should have happened, instead of this.
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agreed, I think I'll edit my guide a bit to make it seem more opinion than fact.

IE instead of red parents influence folor, have "according to this theory: yada yada"

From what I've seen, the temperment of a bird mainly just relates to it's current dominant stat...

High srength birds are tempermant, endurance are patient, discernment is... complex? gimme a sec can't remember, ends with "making it hard to kn\ow what its thinking"

Dunno what recept is... hmmm

Thank you for keeping this topic civil, despite the fact it's over something as trivial as chocobo breeding, off to go edit my guide~
 
Only thing I can say about genetics, is stop playing god with honeymoon cards! Let it come naturally!

(I actually don't care, but I figured that side should be thrown out into the mix)
 
Seems like everything in this thread has tied itself up in to a nice and neat little package. Lockzored.
 
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