Darks replacing thieves after 60? true or bogus

Status
Not open for further replies.
wolfskymoon

wolfskymoon

Genkai Conqueror
Adventurer
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
2,587
Ok so like always i made a party but a dragoon in my party slapped me when i let our whm raise someone (he didnt want him to) and then started saying that drks replace thieves after 60.Is that true or not? explain please.I havnt seen a drk using sata so i dont know much about this.
 
wolfskymoon said:
-incoming useless info- Ok so like always i made a party but a dragoon in my party slapped me when i let our whm raise someone (he didnt want him to)
-end useless info-
and then started saying that drks replace thieves after 60.Is that true or not? explain please.I havnt seen a drk using sata so i dont know much about this.
Click to expand...


Personally, I don't see this happening. SA only gives bonus damage+critical to H2H/Knife weapons as far as I know (everything thing, is just a critical), so a THF SATA would still outdo a DRK SATA.
 
At 66 DRK can replace thief yes. SATA+Spinning Slash = 1200ish damage from what I've heard, which would nailgun the hate onto the PLD. I dont really know much about thf WS later on but SATA+Sharkbite I hear is also pretty potent.

Souleater+SATA+WS = ouch and no hate for the DRK if done right....
 
Mishaela said:
Personally, I don't see this happening. SA only gives bonus damage+critical to H2H/Knife weapons as far as I know (everything thing, is just a critical), so a THF SATA would still outdo a DRK SATA.
Click to expand...

hmmmm, I do 1800+ damage with SATA and spiral Hell at 300%... :roll:
 
SATA works with any weapon although I've heard that with thf subbed it does less than a thf main. Thf has things that a Drk doesnt vis-versa, I can see a drk being able to be comparable to a thf in hate control, but well I'm partial obviously :p.
 
Sorry for the double post, but unless I'm werong Thieves at that level are more capable of gaining tp, whcih can put a decent amount of hate on mob for tank more frequenlty, although it may not make a large gap of difference in the end.
 
Short answer: No.

Dark Knights sub thf so they can make their single hit weaponskills do their maximum damage without having the nasty repercussion of the mob eating them. While a drk/thf can do minor hate control later in the fight they need tp to do so. A 180dmg hit (or less) sata is not going to turn anything.

THF main--> hate control for the party.
DRK/THF --> hate control for the drk.

That about sums it up >_>
 
Tenkax said:
Mishaela said:
Personally, I don't see this happening. SA only gives bonus damage+critical to H2H/Knife weapons as far as I know (everything thing, is just a critical), so a THF SATA would still outdo a DRK SATA.
Click to expand...

hmmmm, I do 1800+ damage with SATA and spiral Hell at 300%... :roll:
Click to expand...

The question was replacing THF at 60, not 75. :wink:
 
I disagree with these posters. I think in fact drk/thf can replace thf. Stronger WS and more damage in the effect of building TP. That SATA really does add a ton of hate to the tank, at least enough to keep hate off the BLM who follows it all up with a huge burst. 60-66 it's a question of distortion or fragmentation mostly. let's say you open with slug shot you can end with either dancing edge or guillitine. With power enough DRK JAs who are throwing a tremendous amount of hate on the tank as well as doing WS that come at least close to dancing edge on a rather consistant basis. All while doing more damage on the way up. I'd argue 60+ is a huge change for drk in that respect. Yes it's true Dancing edge will do more consistant high damage for WS with a good thf, but on the other hand if the first DD fails to turn the mob the DRK can either do a lone TA on the tank or a SA behind the mob both still doing decent enough damage to make it not a total loss. Thief is ruined by the mob not turning.
 
Again, I think the points are obvious enough, but it depends on what exactly you want...
Maybe you want a little less damage, a little more finesse. Go THF.
Maybe you want the additional damage and even more cemented hate.

There is such thing as too much hate to the tank.

I agree mostly with what Mistaya said:
"THF main--> hate control for the party.
DRK/THF --> hate control for the drk."
 
Mistaya said:
THF main--> hate control for the party.
DRK/THF --> hate control for the drk.quote]

I totally agree with Misty there, but THF's and DRK's do not go well together in a PT. The SC's they can do together are not very good. Having two SATA's in the PT does not work that well either unless you have 2 NIN's or a combination NIN and PLD which is not an ideal PT. So in a sense it usually comes down to... Do you want a THF or a DRK in the PT?

So my answer is yes, DRK's do replace THF's in a PT. It's very rare you'll see a DRK/THF and THF/NIN in a XP PT together.
Click to expand...
 
Ok so that means all the drks who say they are replacing thiefs at 60 are wrong.Cuz thief is better at gviing hate to the tank and err better pulling and more sata dmg.
 
OK, it's not that Thieves are better at Hate control than Darks per se. It's that we can do it consistantly, and without restrictions.

When a Dark does a SATA onto the tank the damage created is only a garunteed Critical hit, they attain no Dexterity bonus, nor Agility bonus for the job abilities Sneak Attack, or Trick attack. So basically if a Dark Does a SATA for 200, then goes around and starts hitting normal hits for 100 a swing, the initial value of the SATA is gone in 2 hits, or one critical hit. But.. As it being that with all the Dark Knight Job Abilities, and what not, subbing thief allows then to do a devastating attack every 6 minutes(Cooldown on Soul Eater/Last Resort?) and having the advantage of putting that hate elsewhere is a nice option.

So as somone already said SATA for a thief is Hate control for the Party, and SATA for a Dark is Hate control for the Dark.

And..

Thieves get a job trait called assassin that basically turns your Trick attack into a Sneack Attack's damage that you can do to the tank wether or not the tank is behind the mob, it's a garunteed critical hit, like Sneak Attack is, and has a damage modifier based on agility, like Sneak attack does with Dexterity. Darks Get trick attack, but it does nothing but transfer hate, and can miss, as well there is no damage modifier, or critical hit garuntee to the ability.
 
Short answer, Yes THFs loose ALOT of invites, long answer is their justification for this loss of invite... I will let Jag talk about that, you MENTION DRK/THF around him he rants...
 
hi

what about stun?
drain kills?
does blood weapon have a better chance of saving the pt than pd?
weapon bash?
arcance circle? lol
 
Re: hi

Stigmatas said:
what about stun?
drain kills?
does blood weapon have a better chance of saving the pt than pd?
weapon bash?
arcance circle? lol
Click to expand...

Is this supposed to be supporting drk or be against drk? O_o

stun = yey, but blm has it too
drain kills = what? o_O
blood weapon = helps save the drk as well as still hurt the monster, opposed to the thf dodging melee attacks (but the thf getting hate is very, very unoften)
weapon bash = usually not needed, or not available WHEN needed
arcane circle ("lol") - does wonders vs bombs/pots/weapons, but how often to people exp off those asides in the 30s when people take on Evil Weapons vs. Garlaige?


I still think DRK doesn't replace THF. THF may do less damage, whatever, but I see them giving much better hate control that benefits the party as well as a better range of SCs other than Distortion. =P
 
Re: hi

stun = yey, but blm has it too
drain kills = what? o_O
blood weapon = helps save the drk as well as still hurt the monster, opposed to the thf dodging melee attacks (but the thf getting hate is very, very unoften)
weapon bash = usually not needed, or not available WHEN needed
arcane circle ("lol") - does wonders vs bombs/pots/weapons, but how often to people exp off those asides in the 30s when people take on Evil Weapons vs. Garlaige?
Click to expand...

i'm looking at it from a high lvl view |;

70+ = weapons and golems..
for those times you cant kill the mob, drain does the job.
weapon bash is another time for stun: smite of rage ><
and hyre my nina didnt need a sata to keep hate.... we lvled 1 to 75, it was nice to insure<sp> he holds hate but not needed.

noone ever died from hyre's tanking except darke and his mighty strikes at start of fight, or ken coming back from afk to blizzaga3
 
Re: hi

Stigmatas said:
stun = yey, but blm has it too
drain kills = what? o_O
blood weapon = helps save the drk as well as still hurt the monster, opposed to the thf dodging melee attacks (but the thf getting hate is very, very unoften)
weapon bash = usually not needed, or not available WHEN needed
arcane circle ("lol") - does wonders vs bombs/pots/weapons, but how often to people exp off those asides in the 30s when people take on Evil Weapons vs. Garlaige?
Click to expand...

i'm looking at it from a high lvl view |;

70+ = weapons and golems..
for those times you cant kill the mob, drain does the job.
weapon bash is another time for stun: smite of rage ><
and hyre my nina didnt need a sata to keep hate.... we lvled 1 to 75, it was nice to insure<sp> he holds hate but not needed.

noone ever died from hyre's tanking except darke and his mighty strikes at start of fight, or ken coming back from afk to blizzaga3
Click to expand...

Ah, didn't know people actually levelled off of Ornamental Weapons(?) and such, sorry x_o and I forgot golems...I retract my opinion~
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top