DNC in merit parties.... opinions?

[Ewok]

I had a chance to try DNC over my 4 day weekend using my friend's computer, and I gotta say, this job seems fun. What I wanted to know is, how highly wanted or viable does everyone think this job will be for merit melee cannons? It appears to be a very viable support class for them, even adding some dmg, albeit probably not even 1/2 as good as the staple DD's.

The reason why I ask this, is because to date, almost all my merits have been obtained by soloing on BLU. I don't enjoy exp/meriting on BLM, and even if I achieved one of my goals (SMN to 75), I still would be w/o a good fast job to obtain merits on. If this ends up being worth it, I might even hold off on taking SMN to 75 before getting DNC there (which I was considering anyway).

Any opinions/experiences would be appreciated, especially from anyone who has been lvlng DNC, or who is already 75 on it (are there any on our server yet who are?).

 

[Uzor]

Drain Samba doesn't actually add any damage, so DNC as a sub job gives no boost in damage, unless you could Box Step and Quick Step as a damage boost. All it does, really, is help with some extra curing, and some enfeebling to improve the party's damage.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have more then 1 DNC in merits. However, I believe 1 DNC could help quite a bit with healing from Drain Samba III, as its basically a Cure I every time someone hits. So it acts as a very potent regen effect. However, you will still probably need a haster and a BRD in order to get great exp, so I can't believe DNC actually replacing anything but a DD, as DNC's haste isn't quite as potent as you'd hope. And that also means you don't have Drain Samba up.

 

[Tagrineth]

The only experience I've had so far with a DNC in merits was as such -

setup was

pld/nin
sam/nin
drg/sam
dnc/nin
rdm/whm
whm/blm

We were fighting Trolls in Mt. Zhayolm and chaining them

so I don't know exactly what the dnc was doing but he was doing something right.

 

[Zaltana]

its not exactly hard to chain trolls. any experienced group can do it. but i have to agree with tag. What ever the DNC was going it must have been working.

 

[Khajit]

i've not had very decent experiences with dnc in merits lv parties myself with brd at least. they do about 10% pt damage and most of the tp seems to be wasted on curing my brd out of my yellow hp when i'm TRYING to get hurt or when I'm going to cure myself or let regen from a whm easily fix any health issues. I forgot to take note of ws damage since most dnc didn't even bother although the one that seemed the least disruptive to exp actually did use them whenever possible while still being able to cure.
generally a real dd seems better.

t
The greatest weakness of dnc (which used to be it's strength)is the fact that it's a healer. any job that can haste also can fulfill the role of a healer so the instant you get the cures/haste in a pt you need it becomes worthless vs just grabbing a DD.
I do theorize that you can pair them up with a smn and possibly have them fulfill the requirements needed since the dnc can makeup for the lack of curing potential the smn has while the smn can technically haste everyone. It might not be the perfect combo for a merit but it at least makes the dnc a non leech (brd preferred since the smn needs some form of refresh).


I do admit I need to see more in action and the fact that they waste tp/irritate my brd may make me slightly biased.

 

[Euphacent]

My DNC is 66. I hate when I group with another DNC. Two DNC can work, but the second slot is just wasted space, in my opinion. I haven't had to group with another one since the 50's, though, so it's been nice.

The job does get kind of boring, though. Imagine a white mage that only gets cures ehich cannot be spammed, but you get to attack.

The job seems great for solo. If you can't get a refresh for the main healer in your party, then DNC/SAM can fill that spot pretty well, for the most part. DNC has trouble healing versus things that do lots of AOEs (flies). For some reason DNC only gets the equivalent of Curaga for AOE healing. There's almost no point in using it since it's costs almost as much as a Cure IV heal. Fighting things like crawlers/eruca and colibri work better for DNC healers.

In merit, I'd imagine DNC would work best with a RDM as the main healer. RDM stays with the party and heals while the DNC pulls and helps with Drain Samba/Haste Samba. They really need to buff Haste Samba, though. It's pretty crappy how it is now, and costs something like 35 tp to use, and only lasts one minute. I really just don't see DNC being a good job for merit parties.

Drain Samba II versus Drain Samba III is interesting. II is 25 tp and lasts two minutes, III is 40 tp and lasts one minute. III doesn't seem to be, from my experience so far, twice the potency, so I think III might be better for "big" fights, where II will suffice for solo and merits.. but I could be wrong since I've barely tried III outside of an exp party. I did use III in a campaign battle while partied with a SAM, and he was getting about 35-45 hp back, which is slightly more than my WAR/DNC was getting back with Drain Samba II.

 

[Tagrineth]

its not exactly hard to chain trolls. any experienced group can do it. but i have to agree with tag. What ever the DNC was going it must have been working.

but this was with a PLD and DNC and no bard or corsair

 

[Jujutsu08]

dnc in merits

My dnc is only lvl 67 but, at lvl 64ish i had a merit pt set up it was war war drg drg dnc brd and it worked great. we were fighting colibri and we were able to break chain 5, just didnt do it often cause the brd was /whm andwasnt lullaby pulling XD but we hit chain 6 if there was a pop near by. As dance i find it easy to main heal almost any setup. Only thing about dnc is no haste, but in a merit pt if ur killing fast enough, i dont see it being a really big loss + the dnc melee does alittle extra dd which may or may not make up for w/e the othermelees w/o haste do. Cant wait for 75 to try it out fo' realz ^.^

Oh and dont forget we dont have af or merits yet, which will only better us and probably make us more usful. I want things like enhances sambas ftw maybe haste samba will be useful then XD

 

[Vilurum]

most of the tp seems to be wasted on curing my brd out of my yellow hp when i'm TRYING to get hurt or when I'm going to cure myself or let regen from a whm easily fix any health issues.

Whether you run into this issue with DNC or with any other healer, the issue is not the job of the healer in question, it's a matter of communication. Believe it or not, not everyone knows about the latent effect rings, and even people who know about them might not immediately put two and two together. Especially since the majority of jobs *don't* use their rings.

Unless the healer in question is a dumbass who can't remember your explanation five minutes after you give it, or unless there's a language barrier in place, this problem is very easily solved. Explain the ring, what it does, how it works, and how they should react (read: don't intentionally cure you into white HP, though if they accidentally snag you with an aoe cure or overcure you from orange/red, that's totally understandable).

Now, if your point was that a lot of DNCs were aforementioned dumbasses who can't remember explanations, well, that's a statement about the players the job attracts, more than about the job itself.

 

[Mistra]

Whether you run into this issue with DNC or with any other healer, the issue is not the job of the healer in question, it's a matter of communication. Believe it or not, not everyone knows about the latent effect rings, and even people who know about them might not immediately put two and two together. Especially since the majority of jobs *don't* use their rings.

Unless the healer in question is a dumbass who can't remember your explanation five minutes after you give it, or unless there's a language barrier in place, this problem is very easily solved. Explain the ring, what it does, how it works, and how they should react (read: don't intentionally cure you into white HP, though if they accidentally snag you with an aoe cure or overcure you from orange/red, that's totally understandable).

Now, if your point was that a lot of DNCs were aforementioned dumbasses who can't remember explanations, well, that's a statement about the players the job attracts, more than about the job itself.

Classy response as always, rate up.

 

[Olrox]

I just had a dnc in my merit pt at mount Z it rocked.
Had

nin, rng, mnk, dnc, brd, whm.

DNC totally makes it so you can have only 1 healer. ( 3x DD brd rdm whm is usually best setup imo)

AND DNC can give songs to either drain or to build attack speed with every hit, I have unji/perdu suppa/af body and 20% haste and I never once stopped attacking. Whenever one of us took dmg.. dnc healed, dont use DNC to take the spot of brd or cor, use it to take the spot of healer.. its so awesome I would recommend- dnc, brd-(or cor if no brd seeking) (rdm or whm) 3x DD (or 2x DD and nin or pld if u are one)

DNC is definitely wicked as hell and I'm itching to lv it to 37 for nin/dnc to solo with.. see if it can live up to nin/whm for soloing.

 

[Khajit]

Whether you run into this issue with DNC or with any other healer, the issue is not the job of the healer in question, it's a matter of communication. Believe it or not, not everyone knows about the latent effect rings, and even people who know about them might not immediately put two and two together. Especially since the majority of jobs *don't* use their rings.

Unless the healer in question is a dumbass who can't remember your explanation five minutes after you give it, or unless there's a language barrier in place, this problem is very easily solved. Explain the ring, what it does, how it works, and how they should react (read: don't intentionally cure you into white HP, though if they accidentally snag you with an aoe cure or overcure you from orange/red, that's totally understandable).

Now, if your point was that a lot of DNCs were aforementioned dumbasses who can't remember explanations, well, that's a statement about the players the job attracts, more than about the job itself.

The point wasn't that they were stupid. The point was that was the only real use for their abilities I found in most instances. If the only thing they can really do is cure people that don't need healing or are already being healed then there is no point in bringing them when a mage can do the same thing + haste and you can just grab a DD capable of better damage. Dnc + rdm or whm is like making dual whm parties. Just say no.

 

[Sharpe]

( 3x DD brd rdm whm is usually best setup imo)

I personally prefer 4 DD, BRD, RDM. No need for a RDM, BRD and WHM in the same party.

 

[Ewok]

The point wasn't that they were stupid. The point was that was the only real use for their abilities I found in most instances. If the only thing they can really do is cure people that don't need healing or are already being healed then there is no point in bringing them when a mage can do the same thing + haste and you can just grab a DD capable of better damage. Dnc + rdm or whm is like making dual whm parties. Just say no.

So I take it their Steps aren't that potent (lower defense and evasions, stacks up to 5 times, recast 15 seconds)? Also, it looks like Wild Flourish works with other players closing the SC for the DNC (wiki lists skillchains ending with weapons DNC cannot use). I think I was reading somewhere that SE lowered resist rates on skillchain damage. If this is the case, it could bridge some of the gap for their dmg potential (Wild Flourish requires 2 FMs, which you can achive from one successful Step, and this can be done every 30 seconds with as little as 10 tp). Though, from the looks of it, it will be impossible to pull off Darkness or Light with it (it has properties of either Compression or Scission). Main problem with SC'ing in the past was that both players had to be at 100tp+. With this, only one player has to, while the DNC will probably already have the FMs saved up.


My main point was for them to be support though. Guess it's a desperate attempt of mine to find a job I actually enjoy to merit on, since BRD's and some RDM's shy away from BLU burns, lol.

 

[Olrox]

I personally prefer 4 DD, BRD, RDM. No need for a RDM, BRD and WHM in the same party.

lol yes, when 3 DD can chain 100+ a rdm and whm make it so you never have to stop. a rdm or whm usually can barely keep up with healing, unless the pt members gimp themselves with /nin. I'm talking a pt that goes sam/war or mnk/war war/sam rng/war.. none of this gimpy /nin stuff.

 

[Willian]

lol yes, when 3 DD can chain 100+ a rdm and whm make it so you never have to stop. a rdm or whm usually can barely keep up with healing, unless the pt members gimp themselves with /nin. I'm talking a pt that goes sam/war or mnk/war war/sam rng/war.. none of this gimpy /nin stuff.

So you have DDs with improper meriting SJs, and wonder why you need a WHM and a RDM? You forgot DRG/SAM in your 1337 list.

 

[Olrox]

what makes using a better damage dealing sub improper? If I can have a pt that can do the damage of 4 "proper sub-jobbed" DDs and easily match the exp chains why wouldn't I?
Usually when I make a meripo I would go the 4 dd route but if my RL frends are going to merit with me then I would know that we would be able to chain many mobs because of our skill and gear. If I'm /searching for DDs then i would definitely take the gimp route, since I can't /check everyone's gear to see if they can stand up to such a good pt.

 

[jamal]

what makes using a better damage dealing sub improper? If I can have a pt that can do the damage of 4 "proper sub-jobbed" DDs and easily match the exp chains why wouldn't I?
Usually when I make a meripo I would go the 4 dd route but if my RL frends are going to merit with me then I would know that we would be able to chain many mobs because of our skill and gear. If I'm /searching for DDs then i would definitely take the gimp route, since I can't /check everyone's gear to see if they can stand up to such a good pt.

So I'm gimp for being /nin? You're so fucking retarded it isn't funny.

 

[Willian]

Or you could chain mobs that give more XP. I swear 3 naked PUPs, a BRD, a WHM, and an AFK THF could get chain 100 at Mamools/Puks.

Hell, I've duoed chain 65. Two people. We stopped cuz I had to poop. It was a really good poop... I guess us two do as much damage as your 3 "better" job combos. By this logic I deduce that BRD/WHM is a top DD, since that's what I was.

 

[Vilurum]

Take three DD/NIN. Given the choice between adding a fourth DD/NIN, or making the existing three DD/NINs be DD/WAR, you'll get a bigger damage boost from the fourth DD/NIN. And on top of that, the exp will flow more smoothly for all concerned due to lower risk of death and less MP needing to be spent on cures (which translates to more consistent Haste and Dia 2/3, not to mention not *needing* two healers in the first place).

For a DD to do what they can for an efficient merit party - and this point really isn't limited to merits either, it applies to any sort of small to moderate group situation, and some large group situations - it doesn't translate to "do more damage no matter what the cost". It translates to "do as much damage as you can while maintaining overall party smoothness".