Do Mind Altering Drugs Make You Cool?

Westyle saves another thread.
 
This whole thread is based on a little latin phrase that my econ teacher loves to use.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Some may know it, and some may not, but it means After this, therefore, because of this. Probably the biggest logical fallacy that basically means, "X event happened after Y event, therefore, Y event caused X event to happen"

No one smoked pot and magically got a 97 in AP physics. Hell, i didn't show up to over half the classes and i aced it too. The things are completely unrelated. Drugs don't open your mind. They might help, but in the end, if you're a closed minded person, drugs aren't going to magically make you see something else.
 
Makelith said:
This whole thread is based on a little latin phrase that my econ teacher loves to use.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Some may know it, and some may not, but it means After this, therefore, because of this. Probably the biggest logical fallacy that basically means, "X event happened after Y event, therefore, Y event caused X event to happen"

No one smoked pot and magically got a 97 in AP physics. Hell, i didn't show up to over half the classes and i aced it too. The things are completely unrelated. Drugs don't open your mind. They might help, but in the end, if you're a closed minded person, drugs aren't going to magically make you see something else.
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I didn't mean that doing drugs makes you smart I was just pointing out the fact that even though my friend is hella pot head it doesn't mean that he is a complete idiot who ruined his brain.
 
And no one has said as such. I was referring to excalibur who seems to think that smoking pot got his friend an A in AP physics, who also said that non-smokers are closed minded people, but also said that he will judge them harder, simply because they don't smoke.

I don't give a shit if you smoke. You can smoke all you want and it won't bother me, but the second you start judging me for not smoking and trying to push your views on me. *That* is when we will have a problem.
 
Makelith said:
And no one has said as such. I was referring to excalibur who seems to think that smoking pot got his friend an A in AP physics, who also said that non-smokers are closed minded people, but also said that he will judge them harder, simply because they don't smoke.

I don't give a shit if you smoke. You can smoke all you want and it won't bother me, but the second you start judging me for not smoking and trying to push your views on me. *That* is when we will have a problem.
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Got it a little mixed up I was the one who said that my friend got an A in AP Physics. But I get what you're saying.
 
Touche' salesman.
 
Excim said:
Hurray, you're a nonconformist!

I'm not really picking on Excaliburs post, because knowing him he wasn't 100% serious anyway. I just think the times where it made you a rebel and gave you rights to call yourself awesome are loooong gone. But there are a lot of people who stand by the fact that since they smoke, get drunk, or shoot up that they are cultural badasses, and I don't get it.


Seriously, how does smoking dope make you cool? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm glad your self reflection looks so great to you, I just fail to see how a singular action like numbing your brain can make you a badass. My old coworker smoked a lot of dope, like, every day three times a day, until he went home and beat his 8 year old to near death and got thrown in jail. But... he's cool because he smoked pot, amirite? (/gross and unfair exaggeration)

My question is, how does relying on a mind altering drug make you a better, "cooler" person? Assholes are still assholes when they are high, so yeah, I really don't get it.

I would simply argue that having to rely on these drugs to relax and have a good time, kind of makes you weak. I know that sounds like a flame, but I honestly don't mean it to be.

Let me know what you guys think.
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(please note only read op)
Like anything it a obsession. Drug give a false sense of something. Setting your mind
somewhere else then that of what it was. Just like cigarettes it don't make you cooler, it is just a habit. My friend smoke a pack of cigarettes a day. I ask him, "why do something that you know going to kill you." His reply, "because it calm me down." Seem to be the popular come back to a lot of drug/alcohol/ addictions. So no it don't make you cooler, but for them I guess it a way to get what they crave, and that is human nature at it's finest. Tricking your body to make it do what you want.
 
Or do what you will and accept the consequences in the end.
 
Makelith said:
After this, therefore, because of this. Probably the biggest logical fallacy that basically means, "X event happened after Y event, therefore, Y event caused X event to happen"
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And that is what it comes down to entirely.

Some say drugs make you lazy and dull your wits. Others may think doing drugs make you open minded.

One is not the cause of the other. There are stupid people every where, some use drugs, some don't. There are open minded people everywhere, some use drugs and others don't. I personally think these false stereotypes come from people who stand to lose money if drugs became legal and the drug users. For instance, beer and cigarette companies would lose a whole lot of business if they decided to quit arresting people for weed. Drug users wouldn't have to live with murderes and rapists for 5-10 years for getting high.

Both groups tend to make up "facts" that support their cause on a regular basis. Drug addicts do less making up and a lot more "I know a guy that doesn't fit your stereotypical classification so you are wrong" (lookin at you Excal).

Both groups speak the truth, but not all the time. That leads to misinformation like "using drugs makes you kill people" or "drugs are good and if you do em people think that you're cool!"

That leads to the false stereotyping. It doesn't really matter though, I think most people realize all stereotypes are wrong. Those that don't will figure it out soon enough.
 
Trippyhippy said:
And that is what it comes down to entirely.

Some say drugs make you lazy and dull your wits. Others may think doing drugs make you open minded.

One is not the cause of the other. There are stupid people every where, some use drugs, some don't. There are open minded people everywhere, some use drugs and others don't. I personally think these false stereotypes come from people who stand to lose money if drugs became legal and the drug users. For instance, beer and cigarette companies would lose a whole lot of business if they decided to quit arresting people for weed. Drug users wouldn't have to live with murderes and rapists for 5-10 years for getting high.

Both groups tend to make up "facts" that support their cause on a regular basis. Drug addicts do less making up and a lot more "I know a guy that doesn't fit your stereotypical classification so you are wrong" (lookin at you Excal).

Both groups speak the truth, but not all the time. That leads to misinformation like "using drugs makes you kill people" or "drugs are good and if you do em people think that you're cool!"

That leads to the false stereotyping. It doesn't really matter though, I think most people realize all stereotypes are wrong. Those that don't will figure it out soon enough.
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Just to nit pick, stereotypes are generally right, or at least they used to be; that's why they became stereotypes in the first place. There are exceptions, and it's not nice to make decisions based on them, but they are based on truth.
 
Bajaratt said:
Just to nit pick, stereotypes are generally right, or at least they used to be; that's why they became stereotypes in the first place. There are exceptions, and it's not nice to make decisions based on them, but they are based on truth.
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If you want to nitpick, I'm gonna have to argue semantics with you.

I could give you an exact definition to prove my point but I'm tired.

I'm not even gonna give you a link, just the laziest arguement ever: Nuh uh cause the internet says so. Google it.


...


:sleeping:
 
There are those who advocate drugs like marijuana, who smoke it on a regular basis or occasionally.
In this category, I'd say there are people who you would call "addicts" and those who just "do it for fun."

Now whether you do smoke pot because you like what it does to you, or whether its because you need to are somewhat on planes of the matter.

Yes, there will be people who will argue that if you have not smoked pot before, then you will not know what the effects actually do to you. To an extent, this is true.
However, that does not automatically dismiss the views of those who have not smoked it.
Due to the education that I hope many of us recieved or are recieving, there are books that do describe to an extent what exactly marijuana does to the human body and mind.

Based on that information, people can form opinions that smoking marijuana can be really bad for you if you have not smoked it. According to those that do smoke it, it sounds pretty close-minded but that is only because that they already know the effects of it themselves.

Both sides are not entirely wrong on the matter itself.
Its just a difference in opinion and state of mind.

I remember when I was taking a drug and alcohol class in college, the professor did say that not all of the effects that you read in the textbook appear in every single person.
He said that like alot of things, there are individual differences.

Excalibur, I do think you have a point to an extent.
Compared to a non-smoker of pot, you know what it does to you already. I suppose that makes you think that those who do smoke it are more "open-minded" than those who do not.
To an extent you are correct, however, that does not make those who do not any more close-minded.

You may see one person as open-minded and another person may not agree to your standards. To them, that one person can be ignorant. Would you dismiss their opinion if you were open-minded?
The local hippy might be the most enlightened person in the world to some, to others Gandi might be that one.
Do you see what I'm trying to say?

It's all how you look at it really.
I have smoked pot a few times, and it really has done nothing for me. I do not think pot is bad, but I do think that all depends on the user. If you get too hooked on it, you can lose your grasp on reality. If you only use it every once in a while, the risk of that happening is going to be less.

Using pot or drugs does not make you any more smarter or more stupid. If you were already smart, then you'll most likely remain smart about things. If you were not up to par on alot of things, you'll remain that way.
 
Drugs don't make you cool, but they do change your social group by opening and closing various options to you. You'll be cooler to some people and less cool to others, the same with pretty much everything you do, really. Once you decide on the social sphere you want to inhabit, you can decide what drugs, if any, are in your best interest. I've never used them. Alcohol and caffeine are as far as I'm willing to go. I don't care what others do, so long as they don't do anything that could get me in trouble. Most drugs are illegal, so I don't want any legal repercussions by being around illegal activity. I don't necessarily agree they should be illegal, but I'm in no position to change legislation, so it's the best I can do. That, and I don't want to have to explain any associated odors to people who would notice. Do anything you want, but not around me, is my stance on the matter. They don't make you cool or uncool, they just make you different.
 
I'm not about to write an essay here to reiterate what has probably already been said, but in regards to the discussion earlier on the relationship between different forms of intelligence and drug use, some of my most interesting ideas and bits of writing have come to me while on drugs. I write very fluently and thought provokingly when on mild hallucinogens, and create perhaps my most frantic and blunt, shocking, poetry on, say, coke.

I discuss religion, philosophy and sociology quite frequently with my friends, and some very compelling arguments have also come under the influence.

I don't use drugs often, and I am a smart person. Trust me. I know myself and my intelligence fluently; more than enough to understand a mental change brought upon solely by a drug. Be it an inhibition thing, or a simple persuasion of the mind towards a certain attitude and prioritization, there is certainly something there.

The ability to try a drug and embrace it for the right reasons is something interesting for me to relate to in other drug users. The sad truth, however, is that I have met very few that pursue drugs for perspective. I suppose to an extent that if you’re smart enough to embrace a drug for the right reasons, you’re smart enough to let it go in time and not associate yourself with the kind of people who give it a bad name.
 
Raesylil said:
Yes, there will be people who will argue that if you have not smoked pot before, then you will not know what the effects actually do to you. To an extent, this is true.
However, that does not automatically dismiss the views of those who have not smoked it.
Due to the education that I hope many of us recieved or are recieving, there are books that do describe to an extent what exactly marijuana does to the human body and mind.
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The gigantic clusterfuck of misinformation about the effects of drugs prohibit any indepth study of any kind from ever being accurate.

Excalibur, I do think you have a point to an extent.
Compared to a non-smoker of pot, you know what it does to you already. I suppose that makes you think that those who do smoke it are more "open-minded" than those who do not.
To an extent you are correct, however, that does not make those who do not any more close-minded.
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Not neccesarily, but the willingness to try something and see what it's like for yourself does make you more open minded to a certain extent. If there are so many differing opinions about such a thing as drug use, I want to see first hand what it's all about. Things like heroin, meth, pcp... people that use those don't mouth off about how safe and healthy it is. That is quite obviously bad for you as almost everyone has the same opinon on that.

Having an open mind really has more to do with how accepting you are of other people. Though, in that sense, there is a fine line between being open minded and being apathetic.

You may see one person as open-minded and another person may not agree to your standards. To them, that one person can be ignorant. Would you dismiss their opinion if you were open-minded?
The local hippy might be the most enlightened person in the world to some, to others Gandi might be that one.
Do you see what I'm trying to say?
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That something so abstract as being open minded means something different to everyone. I agree.

It's all how you look at it really.
I have smoked pot a few times, and it really has done nothing for me. I do not think pot is bad, but I do think that all depends on the user. If you get too hooked on it, you can lose your grasp on reality. If you only use it every once in a while, the risk of that happening is going to be less.
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I have never seen anyone lose their grasp on reality as a result of marijuana use. There are usually many more contributing factors such as using harder drugs and/or or being overwhelmed by the real world early in life.

The fact that you have tried marijuana and based your opinion on your own experience makes me think you are an open minded person, even though i disagree with your assessment.

Using pot or drugs does not make you any more smarter or more stupid. If you were already smart, then you'll most likely remain smart about things. If you were not up to par on alot of things, you'll remain that way.
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I think using drugs has made me hunger for knowledge. I know it doesn't have the same effect on all people. Some actually reject the oppertunity to learn something new in favor of using drugs.

I remember my world crashing down around me when I figured out many of the people in my ife that I love and respect use drugs. It made me realize that all the drug education I had recieved all my life was a farce. Many things I had been absolutely sure of my whole life were realized as elaborate illusions sold to the youth of America in order to help line the pockets of the people that created the lies.

Almost everyone in this country has been bought and sold 100 times over, wether you realize it or not. I am no exception. It's sad but it's true.


 
Jesus Christ you people sure do like to twist words. I know the thread has died, but I'm back home now so you're getting an ear(eye?) full.

Did I ever say smoking pot will get you an A in AP Physics or anything even remotely similiar? No. I said doing hard drugs can open your mind a little bit more to things you may not have realized previously. Did I say all non-smokers are closed-minded judgemental assholes? No. I said smokers are more likely to be accepting of other people and what they do and what they believe, which in my almost two decades of experience has held very true. This acceptance of other people is what makes a drug user cooler than the rest of you. If I say I'm a Christian and smoker.a. says, "whatever floats your boat", and wealthy respected intelligent scientest.b. says, "you fucking idiot, God doesn't exist", who do you think I'm going to think is cooler? I never said that ONLY people who use drugs are tolerant and that ALL sober people are assholes, I just said the drug user is more likely to be the more tolerant one.

The reason I'm quicker to judge a non-user rather than a smoker is because in my experience the smokers make better friends. It's called profiling, stereotyping, w/e, and we're all guilty of so don't give me any bullshit about how I'm so fucking judgemental, because so are you.

And fyi, I don't do drugs to escape life, drugs are part of my life. I do them because it feels good, because it's fun, the same reason you ride a rollercoaster or eat a cheeseburger. I agree people that use drugs to run away from their problems are retarded, and I usually don't like to associate myself with those people because those are usually the people who can't keep it under control. Use, don't abuse.

I feel like I have alot more to say but I can't think of anything else right now. I wanted to reply to most of the posts individually to help organize my thoughts better but if I did that I'd be here all day. So if anyone else has a problem with anything I've said either in this post or a previous one or I haven't answered you yet, I'll be here all week.
 
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