Do thief have a place in COP capped fights?

Demonknightx

Demonknightx

Snoll Chef
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FFXI
Demonknightx
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Demon Knightx
As of right now, i am on the Diabolos fight, which is lvl 40 cap. However after that starts the 50 and 60 capped stuffs. So like the title says... In those capped fights after, is thief useful? are there any fights where having a thief is atleast somewhat beneficial? its currently my own job past the lvl 50 mark and i was curious to see if i could get away with not having to level anything else... i really want that Raja's ring before leveling my other melee jobs (+5 store tp is awesome even moreso now with that TP update...)

im hoping to hear from people out there that have been through these missions and know the strategies enough to think of a way thief could be incorporated in some of those strats.

On that note... if anyone ever wants to do the diabolos fight lemme know! i can take my nin(40)mnk(40) or of course my thief :P
 
lol...

Hold on Posting a larger response...

CoP I was usefull in a lot of situations, and if you think about it you can see why. Most of the BC's were involving Single Mobs, which Thieves are really good for.

Breakdown:

Promyvions:
Mea: Good, 2 tank settup helps, you can SATA freely causing a great deal of harm. Use swords.
Dem: loldem same thing as Mea.
Holla: Useless, you want as little close combat as possible.

Aquducts:
Most Useful member for this mission, 1, you can sneak all the way to the minataur and aggro it bringing your entire group to the boss effortlessly. The rest of the stuff you can pick locks.

Riven 40:
Actually pretty useful
Mammets: Send thief in to aggro mammets, as long as no one is healing, and the thief doesn't actually actively 'red' a mammet, you can kite em for days, while the group fights one at a time. Evasion FtW

Diablos: Go Drk lol... Thief is Useless.

50:
Sacariuim: lolTH2, lolBones = lolthf... Tarus are alergic to thieves, and we kill em good, if using daggers. The Fomors are pretty basic to all other jobs. And the Bosses are both undead and strong to piercing damage...

Vhazl: Useless pretty much EXCEPT for one thing: Thief Opens the Boss fight with a SATA and Tank is set for the rest of the fight. Cyclone Owns the Babies the boss drops, but so do most AoE WS.

Ouryu: Meh... this could be done with a pair of BLM and a RDM..

60:
Trackers are like EXP mobs and Thief does fine.
Snoll Thief did better than expected. SATA x 4(3 with DE) = shitloads of damage.
Moblin: lol go as any 6 jobs what so ever and enjoy it. Best fight in FFXI period.
Mammet/Omega/Ultima:
- Kite mammets like the first time, can kill em all in under 8 min.
- Omega pretty straight forward. Damage as much as possible, Wipe, Finish it off thanks to no Regen.
- Ultima, Same as omega, but you all have 2hrs.

Tenzen: um... god.. fuck him

Sea crap: meh.


so there. You are only useless if you think you are. There are plenty of thieves that got through. And you can rest assured that your skill will increase as a result of the missions. Cause you're not gonna be one of those Dipshit groups that just manaburn it all the way up like fuckwad idiots.
 
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they can. It won't be easy but ya.. I think there was a group I read about on alla that were PLD, SAM, RNG, THF, RDM WHM or something like that which did Promy -> Promathia. Just lots of focusing and potions (for the tank at the very least XD)
 
It's not a big deal on the uncapped fights. But in my opinion, short answer for 50-60 events, especially the 60 capped events, no.
Possible yes, far more trouble than it is worth, yes.
 
so atleast theres some kind of hope that there *is* a possibility that i can make it through, somehow, as thief.

But if there was one job (thats not a mage... im definatly not mage material) to level up to get thru those capped fights, what would it be?

my first guess would be nin, but i havnt researched too many of the fights
 
i could help you with Diabolos Demon, he's freaking easy
 
Phraust said:
Aquducts:
Most Useful member for this mission, 1, you can sneak all the way to the minataur and aggro it bringing your entire group to the boss effortlessly. The rest of the stuff you can pick locks.
Click to expand...

bst can solo all of it ^^)b
(need to get a key for the door though)
 
I am having the same problem as you demon :( but thankfully i have war and nin at 50ish and currently trying to get nin to 60 for 60 cap stuff.

However I have done quite some research on our usefulness on COP, I am on 3 paths atm.

3-5 diablos: You have nin lvled so that should be ideal for the choice. And remember use sword for extra stun WS.

4-2 ouryu: Seriously most meelee jobs are pretty useless on him excpet prolly mnk. This is all about sleeper and nuker imo. However amoung the jobs that you have i'd go as thf/rng or thf/war and use acid bolts for dmg. acids and bloodies procs on ouryu and does decent damage. But the star in this BC is smn / blm / rdm.

4-3: I did it as warrior and the ghost NM fight is pretty chaotic since it warps around. I'd suggest using war or other jobs if possible.

5-1 Promy vhalz: If you have a first voker thf would be very useful. As I remember a ninja would be very busy keeping shadows up and some SATA helps quite a bit. Mea boss is a bitch too. Just prepare ur group with more than enough anima and you would be fine.

5-3 3 paths:
bugbear - we are one of the best kiters = good
Snoll - This is what really concerns me. I am trying to lvl nin to 60 for this fight since this is solely depends on quick damage and i am worried about doing this as thf. If thf ever works on this which combo would be better? thf/rng or thf/war?

6-4 Ultima/omega:

I have heard a lot of terrible story about this and after watching my friend did it I figured thf is actually extremely useful on this BC. my friend's static was nin war mnk whm blm brd. On U/O the nin was having a bit hard time holding hate against blm and mnk and war. And mnk takes quick a bit of dmg in the process. This is wear thf comes to shine.

Thf/nin or thf/rng and use TADE on the tank every min. Build TP outside the AOE range with marksmanship. You can also drain from ultima with bloodies and those can be 80ish per pop.
 
Having done it, I felt ninja was pretty useless for snoll. With all the damage going around, such as war doing 4000 rushing rush during a brd 2hr, even pld during invinicble will have trouble.

Most of CoP can be hard, but nothing REAL bad except snoll and the omega/ultima fight. So if you wish to level up another job to 60 based on those two fights, then Mnk, war, rng, sam, and maybe drg have the DoT to compete in those BCNMs efficently. Although drg would be pushing hard to keep up for the short snoll fight.

Thing about thief regarding such BCNMs is, you kind of need everyone to be pimped and playing ideal jobs to make up for your slack or averageness.

I wouldn't even worry much about promy vahzl, the moblin fight, etc. None of that stuff is too bad. My CoP static had to go through some CoP BCNMs with less than perfect setups though(snoll, airship, magic pot BCNMs), so it's not like things have to be perfect, but it sure does help.
 
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yea.. i mean i have awesome gear, i think, for thf at those levels, bravos' sub, rappa harness, ect ect, but its finding a group willing to go with a less-than-perfect setup. I know how that is, im a freakin master at the 30 cap Promies since i have done them so much, and i have a real hard time taking jobs like pld or drk, even thf, because i know how much more smoothly it runs with the perfect setup of the war/nin's and such; people want to win after going thru that freaking tower, and having the setup gives a sense of security to that win.

But on that, maybe i'll level war... i really wanna level mnk/sam/nin with raja's ring because of all the benefits it gives, not saying WAR cant use it also, but i already have war at 40. However its *severely* gimped, its leveled from 30-41 on the promy 20-cap ENM's alone... yes ive done it that much x_x...

im guessing WAR would possible be a better choice for maybe.. say the 50 cap stuff?
 
That's not a perfect setup. That's a Gerber setup. HUGE difference. Perfect is a bunch of friends, all thoroughly competent, exploring new zones while farming items they need to progress, and looking to enjoy the story and adventure. Gerber is going all blm or war/nin because that's how to win with the least amount of gameplay effort.

Do you really want to finish your CoP story with a group of job-users who only associate with each other because they're the in jobs?

A perfect setup is one that you don't feel like disbanding from during the cutscenes. Everything else is just making it easier so you can win...not easiest, laziest.

Take your thief if you dont' have anything else. Viper bite is broken. DE is broken. You just have to have the technical proficiency to make use of them, and the party to facilitate it. If you have that, like always, thief is a good decision from 15-60 just like it is everywhere else. And uncapped has assassin. It's all good.
 
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This is a good excuse to level all your subs up and experience other jobs. Phraust leveled DRK up for this fight, but has used it as a sub for his THF on occasion and likes to rip things apart from time to time as a real job. Not that THF is useless, but CoP gives you some good reasons to level your other jobs to usable points.

Our NIN WHM and RDM all switched over to BLM for the Aquaducts because we all wanted to farm while down there. Our THF and DRG both switched to WAR, and our BLM went RDM. Being able to change layouts as you go makes things much easier and more enjoyable, as you aren't stuck with the same tasks the whole way.

I dunno what Peregrine is talking about when he says "job users", but I assume he means people who play their jobs? I dunno, doesn't sound like a flaw to me, but whatever. I'm as much a 70 RDM as I am a 49 BLM, so I don't feel like I ever need to play one job more than the other.
 
bigboy got it right, I enjoy playing a variety of jobs. On Meeze I had 6 jobs at or over 55 and it opens your eyes to how other jobs operate. It gives you more insight so when someone in your LS asks an opinion on how certain jobs should be played, you can draw from experience rather than relying on info given to you second hand.

Especially doing melee jobs, a lot of the accessories can be used by almost any jobs, only needing to purchase a few pieces of actual armor and weapons. If you say you are interested in playing the other melee jobs taking a couple to the 50's is a good idea and your pockets wont break gearing them up with a good base of equip you already have from THF.
 
I'am on Omega/Ultima fight right now and my CoP static had a THF since lvl 50 capped fights :
- Ouryu : 1/1 (but with two BLM sleep/nuke style ... and two PLD btw lol)
- Diabolo : 1/1 (classic setup PLD/WAR/THF/RDM/WHM/BLM, just keep TP for stun and have the SATA and use bolts)
- Sacrarium : no problem here (THII ftw)
- Promyvion vahzl 1/2 : with PLD WAR THF WHM RDM BLM... the satas can be a litle tricky due to "projection attacks" at the wrong times.
- tenzen path 1/2 : lock pick FTW!
- Mithras : 2/2 : I did it two times, both times THF in the setup (PLD THF WAR RDM WHM BLM and PLD WAR THF MNK WHM RDM)... no problem at all ... you just have to die/reraise after killing the DRG mithra (we nearly made it without dying the second time). We didnt tried, but i think THF can be great in this fight to solo the pets after the death of the first mithra, saving the mages.
- Moblins : 1/1 Very easy, beat the record with a setup PLD THF MNK NIN WHM BLM) ... THF are great here to solo a moblin.
- Snoll : 1/1 with 2 salts: no big problem here with a setup PLD WAR THF MNK BLM RDM, SATA DE ftw.
- Omega/Ultima : 0/1 with a setup NIN WAR THF MNK WHM RDM, we made it to ultima 15% health before running out of time. Then again no problem for a THF (very useful to manage hate with a nin tank + status bolts in these fights, just be careful with SA on omega), we lost because of the lack of BLM and too many melee.

My opinion : These fight are more about farming the right items (animas, CCB, salt, mismelt etc) and being very well prepared (meds + strats). A THF is as benefial as any DD (+ the hate management improvement + the status bolts + improved solo capabilities - a little damage).
 
I've always wondered this so could somone aswer? How the hell is it that thf, the job with THE most damaging Weaponskill until sidewinder/slugshot is never liked for bcnm and missions? People say a bcnm should involve quick damge... Use an icarus wing. Precharge sata for30 secs open with a WS and you got tons of damage right there and with a thf theres a good chance they will be able to repeat the damage in 45 seconds.

Hell sidewinder/slugshot only beat viperbite by 100-200 most of the time or was equal to Vb outside of giant 1k damage spikes..
 
Its mainly because Thf is out of the cookie-cutter setup for most of the fights, atleast out of what the missions sound like. And much like your comment below your sig says... SATA and thf stuff depends alot on other people, so it makes it a bit more complicated than just a bum rush of melees. i have a bit more confidence now that thf can make it through, with the right equipment and strategies. Now to find a group :P
 
Demon your biggest problem will be the fact that with a Pick up group you are going to have alot of problems. Yes an organized CoP no doubt can make a THF work, but such a highly technichal job with a bunch of ppl found in lower jeuno will be difficult at best, especialy the latter missions.
 
Direwolf said:
Demon your biggest problem will be the fact that with a Pick up group you are going to have alot of problems. Yes an organized CoP no doubt can make a THF work, but such a highly technichal job with a bunch of ppl found in lower jeuno will be difficult at best, especialy the latter missions.
Click to expand...

i *definatly* agree with that. i personally hate looking for pickup groups. not only do you not know the people or what kind of equipment you hve, you cant even be sure they know how to do their freakin job. I encounted this several times while trying to find a 6th member for ENM fights... countless times ive gotten stuck with an incompetent ranger...

So i guess the best option is to get atleast a semi-static, with generally the same group of people that know what they're doing. I usually try to stick with the people from my social ls...but a majority of them havnt hit the higher, 70+ levels. But, i guess i'll worry about that when we do reach that point in the missions.

I just really wanna finish these missions... its one of those things that you want to do, have planned to eventually do, but like a giant research paper you dont do until you absolutly have to, and its getting to that point because that store tp +5 on that ring jas just become *that* more valuable with the Tp *update*(coughnerf4thfs). Although the other push for me doing it is the story. i like it so far :P
 
ooo i need diablos... lets do it!
 
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